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RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 5:51:01 PM

OrionTheWolf

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I do not understand. If the bill was bad, then mustering your troops for the bill should be bad. I see this as a political bomb that each party tried to plant in the other, with the American people suffering. How can anyone support either party with the way they handle things? I can understand the lesser of two evils idea, but at some point does it not just make you sick to have to do that?

I for one am voting third party to try and allow third parties more in the future. I see the continuation of the two party system as the number one threat to our nation.

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Post #: 41

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 5:54:21 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

The house "Pubs" thought it a bad bill and did their jobs far better than the dems raiiled by their party.

FDD, this of course makes no sense.

And ORION, yes, I agree---that's why Pelosi refused to muster her troops too.

Something needs to be done-----but not this rush to give the Treasury Secretary a pile of cash with no oversight.

So everyone will be forced to start again, election or no. As they should.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/29/2008 5:57:49 PM >

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Post #: 42

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 5:54:28 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

The house "Pubs" thought it a bad bill and did their jobs far better than the dems raiiled by their party.

so which is it FDD,one minute you are saying it is a failure of the Democrats to rally their members.Two post's later it is the triumph of the Rep to reject the bill.....which was it?Remember it was a Republican President who called for the bailout and the Republican candidate who proclaimed he was going to Washington to save the economy.

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Post #: 43

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 6:14:02 PM

FatDomDaddy

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It was both mike.

If not for the House Republicans, and had the Democrats had their way, this bail out would have been jammed down our throats.

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Post #: 44

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 6:17:33 PM

Musicmystery

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You DO understand that Bush and the Secretary of the Treasury are Republicans, right? And that this was their plan?

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/29/2008 6:19:02 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 6:23:58 PM

kittinSol

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I think he's confuzzled

.

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Post #: 46

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 6:26:08 PM

FatDomDaddy

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Well that is debatable but they are defiantly not conservatives. The House Republicans defeated this bill. If the democrat leadership thought it was a bad bill, why bring it to the floor in the first place?

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Post #: 47

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 6:29:21 PM

Musicmystery

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Dunno if you've noticed, but typically, when the President proposes a bill, and some effort goes into resolving party differences, it goes to the floor for an up or down vote.

We call it democracy. And in this case---it worked!

Perhaps now we'll get a bill that addresses real people---after all, if the crisis is that this will hit us all, then makes sense to send the aid there instead of simply to Wall St.----especially since we've proven over and over that "trickle down" doesn't work.

And yes, they certainly aren't fiscal conservatives.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/29/2008 6:32:52 PM >

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Post #: 48

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 6:32:53 PM

slvemike4u

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Sometimes FDD medicine tastes bad,that does not necessarily mean the medicine is bad.But as long as you, and some others here ,can somehow spin this into an example of Democratic ills...all is good.BTW don't feel bad McCain is trying some of the old soft shoe himself(he makes no more sense than some spin jobs I have read here).

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 9/29/2008 6:47:50 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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Post #: 49

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 6:43:54 PM

lronitulstahp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You DO understand that Bush and the Secretary of the Treasury are Republicans, right? And that this was their plan?

next You'll be telling people Santa Claus is some sort of myth.....

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Post #: 50

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:00:23 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Well CL your question would have some intellectual honesty if Franks and Pelosi operated in a vacuum,but they don't so your question is irrelevant.One can not look at this without looking at the roles played by the others.
So I invite you to reread the tread the answers,those taking into account reality are there,if you insist on one based solely on your limited parameters,you will have to supply it yourself.

Fortunately, the answer is supplied by the players themselves:

quote:

"The legislation may have failed; the crisis is still with us," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., in a news conference after the defeat. "What happened today cannot stand."

quote:

"What happened today was not a failure of a bill, it was a failure of will," said Dodd, the Banking Committee chairman. "Our hope is that cooler heads will prevail, people will think about what they did today and recognize that this is not just scare tactics — it's reality."

The Congressional leaders of the Democratic Party are taking a stance that they wanted this bill to pass. They did not get what they wanted.

Whether this was a good bill or no, the inability of the Democratic leadership to manuever legislation through Congress to address what many would believe is an immediate crisis is telling.

If Nancy Pelosi disliked the bill, she could have used an endless array of procedural manuevers to keep the legislation from coming for a floor vote--much as she did with oil drilling initiatives prior to Congress' August recess. If she was opposed to the bill she had the power as Speaker of the House to smother the bill--maneuvering favored legislation through the House of Representatives is what Speakers have been doing since 1789.

If Nancy Pelosi liked the bill, she erred by rushing the bill to the floor before securing sufficient votes to assure it's passage. This too is something Speakers and committee chairmen have done since 1789. That is the structure and the culture of the House of Representatives.

I personally do not know if the bailout bill was good or bad. What I do know is that Nancy Pelosi did not shepherd the bill half as well as she might have. Would the bill have passed had Nancy Pelosi held the bill up 24 hours in order to secure 12 more "yea" votes--would those votes have been obtained, whether by her or by John McCain or President Bush? There is no way to know.

This bill was rushed to the floor. The only person who could rush a bill to the floor is Nancy Pelosi. Not President Bush, not Senator McCain, not Treasury Secretary Paulson....only Nancy Pelosi.

And that's not spin. That is fact.

< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 9/29/2008 7:16:55 PM >

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Post #: 51

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:04:38 PM

slvemike4u

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Whose cooler hears do you think Dodd was referring to CL.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 9/29/2008 7:05:01 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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Post #: 52

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:17:56 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Whose cooler hears do you think Dodd was referring to CL.

Most likely Senator McCain's. Cooler heads is hardly an apt description of the Democratic leadership in either house.

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Post #: 53

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:23:28 PM

slvemike4u

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So you have come to realise this was a failure of Republican leadership,namely the current occupant of the Oval Office and "the one" nominated by the Republicans to succeed him.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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Post #: 54

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:26:36 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So you have come to realise this was a failure of Republican leadership,namely the current occupant of the Oval Office and "the one" nominated by the Republicans to succeed him.

Horseshit.

This was a failure of Congress, and especially of Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi. They bungled the stewardship of a bill they both wanted to pass so badly that half their own party colleagues could not support it.

Nancy Pelosi screwed the pooch on this one.

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Post #: 55

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:31:53 PM

slvemike4u

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Bullshit is what that version is.When you call for bi-partisan support and 133 of your members vote nay,thay have jumped ship...hence your leadership your ability to deliver votes is in question.and no amount of tap dancing can change that...it is the order of things.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 56

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:36:33 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Bullshit is what that version is.When you call for bi-partisan support and 133 of your members vote nay,thay have jumped ship...hence your leadership your ability to deliver votes is in question.and no amount of tap dancing can change that...it is the order of things.

Naturally....who'd ever expect a Democrat to actually take responsibility for anything?

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Post #: 57

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:40:18 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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CL you do understand there was a gentleman's agreement between the leadership of both parties to deliver 50 % of their votes....The math would suggest the Republicans failed....it is really that simple,no matter your affiliation or ideology.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 58

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:42:11 PM

bookredsox

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According to Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Associated Press Writer:
"In the House, "no" votes came from both the Democratic and Republican sides of the aisle. More than two-thirds of Republicans and 40 percent of Democrats opposed the bill. Several Democrats in close election fights waited until the last moment, then went against the bill as it became clear the vast majority of Republicans were opposing it.Thirteen of the 19 most vulnerable Republicans and Democrats in an Associated Press analysis voted against the bill despite the pleas from Bush and their party leaders to pass it.In all, 65 Republicans joined 140 Democrats in voting "yes," while 133 Republicans and 95 Democrats voted "no."

It sounds like it was a bi-partisan joint effort to kill the bill... We the people do not want THAT bill. Just stating the obvious that we live in a Republic, not a democracy. The checks and balances worked today.
If major corporations or banks want to borrow money then can, they will just be paying more to borrow the money. We do not have a problem here... so what the Dow sold off 777 points. Business that need to borrow money to run their business, still can borrow money.... they are just being charged a higher interest rate. That seems to be a problem for some. It sounds like the well oiled machine of capitalism is working. You think this is bad? It was only the 17th worst day in the markets history. Just wait until the short sellers come back! Look out below --- Bill or no bill

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Post #: 59

RE: McCain blames Obama - 9/29/2008 7:45:34 PM

bestbabync

Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I do not understand. If the bill was bad, then mustering your troops for the bill should be bad. I see this as a political bomb that each party tried to plant in the other, with the American people suffering. How can anyone support either party with the way they handle things? I can understand the lesser of two evils idea, but at some point does it not just make you sick to have to do that?

I for one am voting third party to try and allow third parties more in the future. I see the continuation of the two party system as the number one threat to our nation.

did u really say third party??? not too popular here on CM!

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Post #: 60

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