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An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 11:34:30 AM

LadyCompassion

Posts: 87
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

I came across this particular article when I was searching around the internet for random things. I was wondering what everyone's take on it is. I personally think it's quite inaccurate.

"BDSM relationships are sexual relationships. By definition, sadomasochism is an erotic paraphilia. Even if you never fuck, the whole point of a BDSM relationship is kinky eroticism. People who say otherwise really worry me. Sadomasochism is sexual. If you take the sex out, it's not really S/M anymore.
I know it's kind of fashionable to rhapsodize about the meta-erotic, metaphysical marvels of BDSM, and lots of people swear that they can enjoy non-sexual BDSM, and some even claim to prefer it that way. Oh, Lord. What can I say? I'm not saying that's not true, but presenting that view as typical or as an ideal, I think, is misguided. It seems to spring from the same anti-sex attitude that is the root of our oppressive social condition. I really wish people would rethink that "BDSM is OK without sex" stuff. I mean, life is "OK" without sex, but without sex, OK is the best it can ever be. We should be working on reclaiming our sexual rights, and our sense of erotic entitlement. I don't know about you guys, but I see nothing wrong with shooting for better than just OK."

http://lauragoodwin.org/sex.htm

Post #: 1

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 12:19:16 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

for me i would agree, S/m without sex would equate to me going out to the back shed and hitting my thumb with a hammer.
Well in saying that, if we are talking about S/m particularly, sex isnt involved everytime Master beats me or whatever, but the D/s M/s dynamic is there....and i wouldnt be involved in a Master/slave relationship if an intimate sexual relationship wasnt part of it.
i can go serve anywhere, in fact, my job role is about service in everyday life, im the ceo of a volunteer organisation, every day im serving...when it comes to my intimate relationship...its Master/slave ..im serving..but sex is surely involved.
bdsm is highly erotic and sexual to me.
If i was to live in a Master/slave relationship with no sex, i would equate myself with being a housekeeper not a slave and i would be a very very sad slave indeed.

(in reply to LadyCompassion)

Post #: 2

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 1:03:43 PM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

I find it interesting that you only took a partial clip from that article to try to make a off-base point, though honestly the entire article is off tilt. Anyway, to the point, you and this writer confuse the word sex for pleasure.

A sadist or a masochist derives their PLEASURE from the situation they are not engaged in sex. You can then extrapolate it out to sexuality or sexual activities but not all of what brings pleasure even requires a direct interaction between the two or more people.

To say that non-sexual BDSM does not exist, cheapens the whole experience and demotes it down to as she put it "kinky play" and unlike the many perhaps, there is indeed the minority of us who are not out purely to "play"

To me I am living my life, I am doing what feels natural and enjoyable to me. That is not my "kink". Kink is a societal term that segregates people as being strange or unusual because they are not in the standard play book.

I just can't see how people can read or write stuff like that without realizing that it's that exact attitude towards the whole thing that makes those of us that have meaningful and loving relationships within it's housing as absurd and trivial as furry handcuffs at the novelty store.

< Message edited by afmvdp -- 12/3/2005 1:04:29 PM >

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 3

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 2:09:48 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I agree with afmvdp.

I had a slave for 18 months whom I never ever kissed on the lips or touched or was touched by in a direct sexual ways. The service he provided was great, we had a lot of fun and we both grew a lot from our time together (he moved because of a job and sometimes I still miss him).

He was the heaviest masochist I have ever had the pleasure of playing with and he gave me a workout when I topped him. His enjoys SM so much and is so heavy that he told me he got a nickname after he moved (IronButt) down to Austin.

But I was never sexually attracted to him, he knew that.

Every woman I've ever trained or played with has aroused no direct sexual feelings in me -- but I had great fun playing with them and we all felt wonderful afterwards.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to afmvdp)

Post #: 4

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 2:45:19 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCompassion

"BDSM relationships are sexual relationships. By definition, sadomasochism is an erotic paraphilia. Even if you never fuck, the whole point of a BDSM relationship is kinky eroticism. People who say otherwise really worry me. Sadomasochism is sexual. If you take the sex out, it's not really S/M anymore.
I know it's kind of fashionable to rhapsodize about the meta-erotic, metaphysical marvels of BDSM, and lots of people swear that they can enjoy non-sexual BDSM, and some even claim to prefer it that way. Oh, Lord. What can I say? I'm not saying that's not true, but presenting that view as typical or as an ideal, I think, is misguided. It seems to spring from the same anti-sex attitude that is the root of our oppressive social condition. I really wish people would rethink that "BDSM is OK without sex" stuff. I mean, life is "OK" without sex, but without sex, OK is the best it can ever be. We should be working on reclaiming our sexual rights, and our sense of erotic entitlement. I don't know about you guys, but I see nothing wrong with shooting for better than just OK."

http://lauragoodwin.org/sex.htm

Ummmmm, I'm not totaly sure about this. I think I have to agree with afmvdp. I would like to see more of this artical. Actually the whole artical.

I've had the pleasure of being topped but never touched. Though I will admit, I do wish to experiance again, It's something I got to say "Hey, I tried that. Wasn't my cup of tea."

But with out knowing the whole artical, it's hard to know for sure what all is in the Mind of the one who posted the artical, other than that small part. And if that' s the whole artical... Leaves me stumped still.

(in reply to LadyCompassion)

Post #: 5

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 2:49:03 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp

To say that non-sexual BDSM does not exist, cheapens the whole experience and demotes it down to as she put it "kinky play" and unlike the many perhaps, there is indeed the minority of us who are not out purely to "play"

To me I am living my life, I am doing what feels natural and enjoyable to me. That is not my "kink". Kink is a societal term that segregates people as being strange or unusual because they are not in the standard play book.

Everynow and then, someone comes along, and makes the statement that others would make. And almost word for word. Though I think this one spoke better with words, than I would of been able to.

afmvdp, thank you.

(in reply to afmvdp)

Post #: 6

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 3:27:05 PM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

No need to thank me for speaking my opinion. This is just one of those topics that keeps popping back up without any real basis in fact.

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 7

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 5:58:54 PM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

The only part of this I have to disagree with is the "Life without sex is only okay" part. I disagree. Sex is nice, sure. But there is so much more to life and how life works than sexual expression. Trust me when I say that my happiness doesn't rely on orgasms or sex, and my life is far better than "okay".

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to LadyCompassion)

Post #: 8

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 8:55:04 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

The only part of this I have to disagree with is the "Life without sex is only okay" part. I disagree. Sex is nice, sure. But there is so much more to life and how life works than sexual expression. Trust me when I say that my happiness doesn't rely on orgasms or sex, and my life is far better than "okay".

Ummmm Ok...

I on the other hand NEED to have at least 1 good orgasm a month.... or more.... Or i'm a real Bitch!...LOL

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 9

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 10:05:07 PM

scotty918

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline

I disagree that BDSM has to be sexual. There are some people who ask to be punished because they have done something that they perceive as being wrong. These people ask for severe punishment such as caning for their transgressions and that has nothing to do with sex.

(in reply to LadyCompassion)

Post #: 10

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 10:58:11 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

I don't have sex at all in my bdsm and it's just great with out it. not merely "ok", great. I still have fun I still reach subspace if that was the goal of the night, and my ass still goes home toasty red and beat with out being fucked. If We don't want sex to be a part of our bdsm that's fine, We don't have to "rethink it" My bdsm is just as yummy and pertinant with out sex as yours probably is with sex.

I also don't have much sex in my "real life" And my life is ritch and fufilling and I am doing better than "just ok" I am happy I am relativly healthy. I have family to love and who love me ect ect.

To imply life with out sex is not doing good but just merely ok is a generalization and a false one. There's more to life than sex. At least in my life there is.

< Message edited by FelinePersuasion -- 12/3/2005 11:03:28 PM >

(in reply to LadyCompassion)

Post #: 11

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/3/2005 11:31:40 PM

champagnewishes

Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline

All this article does is make me smile. All I see is another feeble attempt to hang labels with predefined definitions around our necks stating how it is "suppose" to be.

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

Post #: 12

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/4/2005 5:23:29 AM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

The only part of this I have to disagree with is the "Life without sex is only okay" part. I disagree. Sex is nice, sure. But there is so much more to life and how life works than sexual expression. Trust me when I say that my happiness doesn't rely on orgasms or sex, and my life is far better than "okay".

Ummmm Ok...

I on the other hand NEED to have at least 1 good orgasm a month.... or more.... Or i'm a real Bitch!...LOL

Perhaps it isn't the orgasm that makes you bitchy, but the lack of one satisfying intimate experience with someone you care about.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 13

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/4/2005 5:28:19 AM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

I don't have sex at all in my bdsm and it's just great with out it. not merely "ok", great. I still have fun I still reach subspace if that was the goal of the night, and my ass still goes home toasty red and beat with out being fucked. If We don't want sex to be a part of our bdsm that's fine, We don't have to "rethink it" My bdsm is just as yummy and pertinant with out sex as yours probably is with sex.

I also don't have much sex in my "real life" And my life is ritch and fufilling and I am doing better than "just ok" I am happy I am relativly healthy. I have family to love and who love me ect ect.

To imply life with out sex is not doing good but just merely ok is a generalization and a false one. There's more to life than sex. At least in my life there is.

Actual intercourse and "sexual experiences" or thrills are not the same thing. One can be turned on, pleased, or excited on a sexual plane without any touching of the genitals or other erogenous zones.

S&M is sexual because it causes arousal, of the brain, of the genitals, of both...? The point is that you like it, and 99% (this is a percentage out of my ass folks) of people like it because it's arousing.

That endorphin rush they call "subspace"? That's sexual. That moan or scream or dopey face...that's sexual.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

Post #: 14

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/4/2005 5:32:31 AM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

I would contradict that and say subspace is an extremly MENTAL not sexual state of being. If you understand a bit more about meditation and such you can see the similarities.

Remember the mind controls the body not the other way around. Thought, action, completion.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 15

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/4/2005 6:17:49 AM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

sex starts in the brain....
but not all want the TPE....that is in the head...........the heart...the soul....
the body is the icing on the cake....

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCompassion

I came across this particular article when I was searching around the internet for random things. I was wondering what everyone's take on it is. I personally think it's quite inaccurate.

"BDSM relationships are sexual relationships. By definition, sadomasochism is an erotic paraphilia. Even if you never fuck, the whole point of a BDSM relationship is kinky eroticism. People who say otherwise really worry me. Sadomasochism is sexual. If you take the sex out, it's not really S/M anymore.
I know it's kind of fashionable to rhapsodize about the meta-erotic, metaphysical marvels of BDSM, and lots of people swear that they can enjoy non-sexual BDSM, and some even claim to prefer it that way. Oh, Lord. What can I say? I'm not saying that's not true, but presenting that view as typical or as an ideal, I think, is misguided. It seems to spring from the same anti-sex attitude that is the root of our oppressive social condition. I really wish people would rethink that "BDSM is OK without sex" stuff. I mean, life is "OK" without sex, but without sex, OK is the best it can ever be. We should be working on reclaiming our sexual rights, and our sense of erotic entitlement. I don't know about you guys, but I see nothing wrong with shooting for better than just OK."

http://lauragoodwin.org/sex.htm

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to LadyCompassion)

Post #: 16

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/4/2005 7:57:02 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

That endorphin rush they call "subspace"? That's sexual. That moan or scream or dopey face...that's sexual.

Runners and athletes of all types get this same high. Is that sexual?

I get a rush when I teach. Is that sexual?

My point is that is someone says "this isn't sexual for me" why try to convince them otherwise?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 17

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/4/2005 10:39:53 AM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

because they are trying to justify themselves with whom it IS purely sexual. Many times it's jealousy that they do not get as deep of a satisfaction then other times just good ole fashionished ignorance.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 18

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/4/2005 12:27:24 PM

LadyCompassion

Posts: 87
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I would like to see more of this artical. Actually the whole artical.

The article is at the website posted at the bottom of the original post.

http://lauragoodwin.org/sex.htm

(in reply to LadyCompassion)

Post #: 19

RE: An article on non-sexual BDSM - 12/4/2005 1:17:47 PM

pandoravampire

Posts: 374
Joined: 12/6/2004
Status: offline

thanks for the article LadyCompassion.
Being a avid reader on the internet, ill read most posted, some ill agree with, some i wont. But i like to read all and take from them anything that 'clicks' for me.

Non sexual bdsm is i believe possible, BDSM has 4 letter, none require sex to express them. eg. today, im to not have my car but his, so that i valet it before he returns from work (shit eh?) that'll be me submitting then, and him Dominating.
Now personally, id much rather, dress like a slut and do some perelli blonde bimbo stuff with the soap suds whilst he watches me flirt my ass off, till he jumps me, but hey, not today.
I see a definate difference in sensuality and sexuality, and enjoy both, though only one is sexual contact. So i can imagine that people can enjoy a fruitful bdsm lifestyle, without the sex, and service orientated folks, no sex there, but plenty of bdsm. I can imagine myself being sensually stimulated by another, yet not feel im being unfaithful within a monogamous relationship. So there's a bonus.
I do massages for friends. and give sensual pleasure, but its not sexual.
The longest ive ever gone without orgasm is 14 days, nearly killed me! So personally, a non sexual bdsm relationship wouldnt work. But then, i wanted a life partner and a 'no sex' thang definately aint on my list of wants or needs, but each to their own.
good thread - ive enjoyed reading about others and how they dont incorporate sex. Strange, but true.
Then also: the little nuances of interaction between us, that reinforce our dynamic, like a look when im on the wrong side in the street for example, little trip ups by him at times like these, can keep me 'in the zone' and make me feel a bit gooey, and no sex involved at all

Sensation play, no sex there either. Blimey, am i getting enough i ask myself lol

pandoravampire

< Message edited by pandoravampire -- 12/4/2005 1:21:38 PM >

(in reply to LadyCompassion)

Post #: 20

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