RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis

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LookieNoNookie -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 1:14:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Fannie and Freddie are government creations. They don't donate to political campaigns--or anything else. Unlike Enron. ROFLMFFAO!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. That was funny! (Don't give up your day job).

SilverMark -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 2:04:58 AM)
All of the history is true. The government of the United States tried very hard to make housing affordable to everyone. Damn, what a horrible concept that is! Imagine, people wishing to own homes and other people trying to facilitate the procedure involved. Sure wish I lived in country where everyone rented...don't you? All for the history of government attempts at such a horrible thing as home ownership is now under review and rightly so however, If you will look at the states and cases involved with foreclosure, especially Fla., Calif. and Nev. you will see a number of upper middle class speculators that placed their bet and lost.It isn't all of the poor people here folks...I have read and seen so many opinions on how this took place and still and all we want to blame Clinton, Bush, Raines, and just for fun let Rick Davis (McCains campaign manager and lobbyist to Fannie and Freddie) shoulder some as well. We Americans are great at blame and bias and in some cases very poor at reality that doesn't come neatly wrapped and fed to us via our television screens. BUY a mirror!, I think those who post here are fairly responsible people but, look at the debt the average American walks around with. The house that was out of reach and still purchased, the $40,000 SUV, the Visa and Mastercards etc. I believe that the idea that was started with FDR, and changed so many times to make housing affordable was at heart a great idea and then it got too easy! Make a list and blame every politician you wish and then go outside and drive through a few neighborhoods and take a good look at those with the for sale signs and foreclosure signs. Not a one is a politician...it is someone who may have lost a job, became ill our simply suffered from a lack of economic sense...Personal Responsibility! try it...it really works! and no politician in the world would force you to use it!

Musicmystery -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 2:15:58 AM)
Well, Lookie, making random claims won't make them reality, even under whatever color sun shines in your little world.

OneMoreWaste -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 5:09:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark All for the history of government attempts at such a horrible thing as home ownership is now under review and rightly so however, If you will look at the states and cases involved with foreclosure, especially Fla., Calif. and Nev. you will see a number of upper middle class speculators that placed their bet and lost.It isn't all of the poor people here folks... Very true. 24% of foreclosures last month were in California. Has CA really lost that many jobs? No, it was just the market with the biggest bubble, thus, the most speculation. When the bubble popped, speculators walked away from thousands of homes that they'd bought on interest-only paper with nothing down, never intending to own them. My solution? Debtor's prison for anyone in foreclosure on a home that was not purchased as a primary residence. Let them produce toys at 10c/hour so that we can stop getting all the lead-flavored ones from China. quote: Make a list and blame every politician you wish and then go outside and drive through a few neighborhoods and take a good look at those with the for sale signs and foreclosure signs. Not a one is a politician...it is someone who may have lost a job, became ill our simply suffered from a lack of economic sense... In this area, it's probably true. I have a 13-mile drive to work, and I can only think of three "normal" properties that I pass that are for sale (there are a couple in the 50- to 60- acre range that are in their own category), and no foreclosure signs. In fact, I don't think I've seen a single foreclosure sign in the area at any point since the Mortgage Meltdown (tm) began. Not a lot of speculation here. And to be certain, neither the politicians who enabled it, nor the investment bankers who made it all happen with leveraged bets on derivatives will be out on the street any time soon. Nor will they be paying for it. It's a great deal if you can get it [&:]

Alumbrado -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 5:29:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The CRA was passed in 1977. The bank failures began in 2008. Now maybe I don't understand math or high finance, despite having a BS in math and developing financial software for a living, but exactly why, if the CRA was so awful, did it take 31 years for the market to crash over it? Was it some pool of 30+ year mortgages that all defaulted after 30 years of on time payment? Or maybe bigots are making hay over something they long have disliked? Sub prime mortgages being made using deceptive terms to people who should never have qualified for loans in the first place is the problem and for that you can look at HFA and the rest of the now nonexistent sub prime lending industry. Or maybe the CRA was heavily amended long after its inception (as already pointed out), and those changes along with the repeal of post Depression regulations opened the gates for the sub-prime boom, and thus fueled the current situation? Naaaaahhh...

SoulPiercer -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 5:31:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark All of the history is true. The government of the United States tried very hard to make housing affordable to everyone. Damn, what a horrible concept that is! Imagine, people wishing to own homes and other people trying to facilitate the procedure involved. Sure wish I lived in country where everyone rented...don't you? All for the history of government attempts at such a horrible thing as home ownership is now under review and rightly so however, If you will look at the states and cases involved with foreclosure, especially Fla., Calif. and Nev. you will see a number of upper middle class speculators that placed their bet and lost.It isn't all of the poor people here folks...I have read and seen so many opinions on how this took place and still and all we want to blame Clinton, Bush, Raines, and just for fun let Rick Davis (McCains campaign manager and lobbyist to Fannie and Freddie) shoulder some as well. We Americans are great at blame and bias and in some cases very poor at reality that doesn't come neatly wrapped and fed to us via our television screens. BUY a mirror!, I think those who post here are fairly responsible people but, look at the debt the average American walks around with. The house that was out of reach and still purchased, the $40,000 SUV, the Visa and Mastercards etc. I believe that the idea that was started with FDR, and changed so many times to make housing affordable was at heart a great idea and then it got too easy! Make a list and blame every politician you wish and then go outside and drive through a few neighborhoods and take a good look at those with the for sale signs and foreclosure signs. Not a one is a politician...it is someone who may have lost a job, became ill our simply suffered from a lack of economic sense...Personal Responsibility! try it...it really works! and no politician in the world would force you to use it! Best post yet. Add to that ... drive through some of those pretty subdivisions that benefited from those sub-prime mortages .. oddly you won't find too many "minority or low-income" residents. Spend a day in bankruptcy court and you'll get the same results. I've said it before - blaming the other side because of blind party loyalty isn't going solve this problem. All of them are to blame and we let them do it to us. It's about time those of us who don't have jobs in DC stop buying the party line and demand those knuckle heads and in some cases outright criminals solve this problem without it costing we the people a fortune.

Sanity -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 5:51:35 AM)
That's right, the government pretended we were all in la-la land, and what a nice child's tea party we all had until reality had to set in. quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark All of the history is true. The government of the United States tried very hard to make housing affordable to everyone. Damn, what a horrible concept that is! Imagine, people wishing to own homes and other people trying to facilitate the procedure involved. Sure wish I lived in country where everyone rented...don't you? All for the history of government attempts at such a horrible thing as home ownership is now under review and rightly so however, If you will look at the states and cases involved with foreclosure, especially Fla., Calif. and Nev. you will see a number of upper middle class speculators that placed their bet and lost.It isn't all of the poor people here folks...I have read and seen so many opinions on how this took place and still and all we want to blame Clinton, Bush, Raines, and just for fun let Rick Davis (McCains campaign manager and lobbyist to Fannie and Freddie) shoulder some as well. We Americans are great at blame and bias and in some cases very poor at reality that doesn't come neatly wrapped and fed to us via our television screens. BUY a mirror!, I think those who post here are fairly responsible people but, look at the debt the average American walks around with. The house that was out of reach and still purchased, the $40,000 SUV, the Visa and Mastercards etc. I believe that the idea that was started with FDR, and changed so many times to make housing affordable was at heart a great idea and then it got too easy! Make a list and blame every politician you wish and then go outside and drive through a few neighborhoods and take a good look at those with the for sale signs and foreclosure signs. Not a one is a politician...it is someone who may have lost a job, became ill our simply suffered from a lack of economic sense...Personal Responsibility! try it...it really works! and no politician in the world would force you to use it!

Dauntless65 -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 5:56:37 AM)
I have read some very interesting comments here on both sides of the fence. Admittedly, my knowledge on these issues is rather limited and I have viewed concerns here that too many of us are receiving our information via e-mail and internet. Do I believe everything that I receive via this form of communication, my answer would be No. However, I do take it under consideration and thought. I find it unfortuneate that the liberal mainstream media does not report the news, but reports their own agenda with biased information. So, with such being the case, there are many relying upon alternate sources of information to supplement their knowledge of events shaping our world. And with such being the case, here is another interesting article that was posted to me..... enjoy!! Want to know why Democratic Congress Barney Frank has been shouting out loud (even yelling at Senator McCain at yesterday's White House meeting) and blaming Republicans for everything related to the mortgage loan financial crisis? It's because he thinks he can rewrite history about his own and his party's significant role starting in 2003 in making all of this happen. Watch this Fox News video for the real story. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBRIsCkGQ0

celticlord2112 -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 5:59:45 AM)
quote: Fannie and Freddie are government creations. They don't donate to political campaigns--or anything else. You sure about that?

celticlord2112 -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 6:11:42 AM)
quote: The government of the United States tried very hard to make housing affordable to everyone. Damn, what a horrible concept that is! Imagine, people wishing to own homes and other people trying to facilitate the procedure involved. Sure wish I lived in country where everyone rented...don't you? It's actually a very good concept....and one which most people generally support as an ideal. The devil of a detail is that "affordable" is forever a relative term based upon people's income and earnings. People in lower income brackets are always going to have less capacity to sustain a given level of debt than people in higher income brackets--that's basic math and basic economics. That devil is enough to confound most efforts to make housing "affordable", because any effort that succeeds will also succeed in driving up the value of housing, thereby making it "unaffordable" to at least some segment of the targeted population. Legislation such as the CRA contributed to the current credit crisis by setting a stage whereby easy credit became seen as a the means to make housing "affordable"--which it did, right up until the bubble burst, then the "affordable" housing became unaffordable, and thus subprime mortgage default rates began to climb. Affordable housing is a great ideal, but it is one that government is woefully ill-equipped to facilitate at any level. The goal is great--government's methods are what suck.

dcnovice -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 6:19:50 AM)
<fast reply> UNC historian Robert Brent Toplin argues that the roots of the current financial crisis lie in the anti-regulatory mindset bequeathed to us by Ronald Reagan. quote: As the country’s greatest modern champion of deregulation, perhaps Ronald Reagan contributed more to today’s unstable business climate than any other American. His long-standing campaign against the role of government in American life, a crusade he often stretched to extremes, produced conditions that ultimately proved bad for business. quote: Recent troubles in the American economy can be attributed to a weakening of business regulation in the public interest, which is, in large part, a consequence of Reagan’s anti-government preaching. In the absence of oversight, lending became a wildcat enterprise.

Marc2b -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 8:46:59 AM)
quote: The government of the United States tried very hard to make housing affordable to everyone. Damn, what a horrible concept that is! People wishing to own homes and other people trying to facilitate the procedure involved. The problem isn’t in the supposed compassion some people feel for those who can’t afford their own home. The problem is in the policies pursued to bring that result about – namely, contravening reality. If person X can’t pay back a loan to buy a house, then loaning them money to buy a house won’t work. It will only make matters worse. In that situation, all the compassion in the world is meaningless.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 9:08:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Well, Lookie, making random claims won't make them reality, even under whatever color sun shines in your little world. Hahahahahahahahaha. Thanks again for explaining the weather. (Very helpful stuff. I'll try to keep it in mind when I'm buying up a few of my competitors mid 2009).

SoulPiercer -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 11:26:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b The problem isn’t in the supposed compassion some people feel for those who can’t afford their own home. The problem is in the policies pursued to bring that result about – namely, contravening reality. If person X can’t pay back a loan to buy a house, then loaning them money to buy a house won’t work. It will only make matters worse. In that situation, all the compassion in the world is meaningless. This mess didn't occur solely because person X was given a mortgage even though bank A knew they would never be able to pay it back. However for political reasons that are obvious to me, that is the version of the story that the people will be told. It's an easy concept to understand. "We tried to help poor people and people with bad credit. Now look what happened." Has anyone driven through the suburds of Detroit? You know where the Big 3 US auto makers are based? The same auto makers who have been cutting jobs because auto sales are down? Do you think some of those people who lost their jobs might be getting close to defaulting on the mortgages? Is it because they weren't credit worthy or is it because after working for the same company for 10-20 years they lost their jobs? If it's happening in Detroit, you can bet it's happening in other areas of the country. This happened because politicians in the US have always been good at divide and conquer. If you keep the voter base busy arguing about things like gun control, abortion, race relations and gay marriage, they will be too busy to pay attention while you drive the financial markets into the ground. Then .. if you keep them busy arguing about who really drove the financial markets into the ground, who knows what you'll be able to get away with before the smoke clears.

Marc2b -> RE: Some historical footnotes on the financial crisis (10/2/2008 1:15:57 PM)
quote: This mess didn't occur solely because person X was given a mortgage even though bank A knew they would never be able to pay it back. I never said it was the sole cause but it is definitely a cause. More than that, I see it as a symptom that infects politics in general – the belief that we can legislate our way to the perfect society. The Right is wrong in thinking you can legislate immorality away and the left is wrong in thinking that you can legislate poverty away.

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