RE: Art or Science (Full Version)

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fldrkhorse -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 3:16:18 AM)

Relationships are neither an art nor a science. They are trial and error to find what works. There's a quote from and old tv show, Grace Under Fire, where she goes to a shrink (Louis Anderson). She says, "wow, this psychology thing is great." He responds, "it surprises me too everytime it works."

It's good to understand behaviors. It's also good to be understaning of differences.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 5:44:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel
People are a mix of feelings. The way I feel about a sub is going to influence what I do and the way she reacts. She will know if I care about her on some level, no matter what training technique I use. If I don’t care about her, I’m developing someone that I would not find appealing. Now granted this is only my view, but I’ve been known to view art for hours without ever once thinking of the type paint used.

For me it's both. Relationships are a great amalgam of feelings/chemistry/intuition/empathy and a working machine of skills and communication. Depending on the type of relationship or desired outcome, one may need to focus more on one side than another.

As well, depending on what stage or issues you are going through, you may need to focus on one side more than another at a particular time.



slavejali -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 6:10:46 AM)

i know i quoted "Maslow’s Theory of Hierarchy" in one of my posts, it was just responding to something someone said, it was appropriate at the time. im a slave and i quoted it *grin*. (cant remember which thread i posted that to now).

i will try to make my posts more scintillating in the future ...and will have Master beat me over this err *grin*



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 1:38:57 PM)

Padriag, that is beautiful work.



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 1:49:27 PM)

Slavejali, hahah. I didn't meant to pick on anyone who wrote about Maslow's Hierarcy of Needs Theory, but that is true what I said about what Don King said. Heck, come to think of it, Don King has lots of money. He may have reached that zenith of self-actualization. What do we do now, start worshipping him or styling our hair like his.?



KnightofMists -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 2:13:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

I repress all this, but I do think we need an old fashioned, Nazi-like book burning of psychology books. The Nazis knew how to do things with their D/s uniforms and jackboots. I mean who would you bet on in a war, them or the French wearing tights and feathers, saying, “Don’t you dare cross our Maginot Line.” Okay, I digress again for humor, back to the book burning.



If this is humor then in my opinion it is of poorest taste of humor I have ever seen... it repugnant at best. The Nazis book burning was all about close-minded view points not to forget the prejudicial and racist position of their view.

I am finished with this thread!



Sensualips -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 3:22:47 PM)

quote:

I repress all this, but I do think we need an old fashioned, Nazi-like book burning of psychology books. The Nazis knew how to do things with their D/s uniforms and jackboots. I mean who would you bet on in a war, them or the French wearing tights and feathers, saying, “Don’t you dare cross our Maginot Line.” Okay, I digress again for humor, back to the book burning.


Hmm. I typically don't get worked up and take things very seriously. I also typically think there is almost no subject is too serious to joke about, if done in the appropriate way with the appropriate timing. However...this just isn't funny to me. Maybe it is in the delivery.



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 3:31:00 PM)

LOL....for goodness sakes, lighten up folks.



CanisMajor -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 4:16:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel
...lighten up folks.


Nine times of ten, "lighten up" are words used to lash out at people who have called someone on their unspeakable rudeness.

Considering how much blood my family left spilled across Europe as a result of Nazi book burning and other activities, I'm not exactly happy to see "light" made of this sort of thing. I think people should be able to write, think, and believe what they want, without being subjected to Nazistic repression. I don't have a sense of humor about it, and I'm glad, because if I did I'd be aligning myself with despicable people.

I'm also of the view that psychology is largely religious in nature, is substantially unscientific on the whole, is mostly bunk, and in its clinical forms is nonconsensually and arbitrarily conforming - I believe all this despite psychology's having pearls of value scattered throughout its detritus. I don't have a problem with people showing their contempt for psychology - I generally share it. But hyperbole expressing that contempt can go too far.



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 4:38:38 PM)

I guess some of you didn’t watch Hogan’s Heros either. The actors in that show were mostly Jewish, by the way. When you read a post such as mine that is obviously dealing with dark humor you need to have a suspension of belief. That is a literary device necessary when reading certain humor or other things. Shakespeare speaks of it in Henry V.

When I spoke of burning books on Oprah’s List, AOL disks and drivers manuals it was obviously a joke. Don King writing the Gettysburg address also. Anyone think that was serious? Matter of fact, does anyone really think I don’t know psychology has a place in science and medicine? Rhetorical arguments folks.

Know what has happened here? Exactly what I predicted to a friend. Some are trying to hold a match to their monitors and burn my post. Break your monitor and we can get into “The Night of Crystal.” Remember that even Sgt. Schultz, on Hogan, would act very Nazi like at times, but then he would go back to his inept, ineffective self that we all loved. I’ll just go back to my ineffective self and let the other actors be the heavies for awhile. This is more fun than I thought.



Padriag -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 5:01:18 PM)

Seems then you set out to stir up controversy and offend folks. You've certainly manage to offend some people. No, I don't think you literally meant people should burn books, nor do I think you really thought anyone should behave like a Nazi. However, the humor was in bad taste and apparently you're the only one laughing. I'll pass on something my grandfather told me about humor, "If you're the only one laughing at the joke, it wasn't funny." You may have meant to just be funny, but then again based on some of your remarks I can't help but think you were looking to take a jab at some of us.

quote:

Know what has happened here? Exactly what I predicted to a friend. Some are trying to hold a match to their monitors and burn my post.

That statement makes it clear you knew in advance that what you were saying was going to provoke a reaction, enough you predicted it to a friend. I don't mind someone asking about or discussing something we might disagree on, even if all we end up doing is agreeing to disagree. But someone deliberately trying to stir something up, to provoke a reaction, that's just rude.

Personally, I think you owe folks an appology.



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 5:19:12 PM)

Oh, I'm not the only one laughing.

Hey, I truly respect your posts, Padriag and didn't mean to offend you. You take time to write things out for all our benefits. If you notice, I have never said derogatory words to any poster.

Okay, having said that, since metaphor and allegory is not an interest here, let's go back and debate the words "slave and status" as Knight wants to do..shrug. This should be something.

I will start by saying that I think no matter how much a sub wants to be a slave, that her dom has done something to get her to that desire. I mean for goodness sakes, she has to know him at least to want to be his slave. I'm sure Knight is very personable and it may be that is all it took. It could be anything about him, but he has done something. His slave obviously treasures her relationship and that speaks well of what he has done, before and after their status was obtained.

Does she come into the relationship feeling the way and acting the way he wants without even knowing what he truly wants? Of course not, he has built things slowly in some fashion. She has worked to be what he wants and he has worked to get her there.



Sensualips -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 5:24:59 PM)

I love dark humor. When it is funny.

All that aside, I think you what is being said is that a slave is a slave with or without a master. A Dom or Master may have done something to make the slave desire to be his/hers. But a slave is a slave before contact with her Master. The status you speak of is OWNED, not the status of being a slave or not.

Am I right, for those trying to make the point?



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 5:36:09 PM)

Interesting point. Owned and slave status. So she was a slave before and then she became owned by him? How do you think her status changed when she became owned? Did she do things differently then to please him after learning what he wanted? Would it be different if she had found a different owner?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 5:47:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel
Interesting point. Owned and slave status. So she was a slave before and then she became owned by him? How do you think her status changed when she became owned?

Since I consider myself a slave and am not currently owned, I'd have to say that my status changed in that I'm a free slave right now versus an owned slave.

quote:

Did she do things differently then to please him after learning what he wanted? Would it be different if she had found a different owner?

Well each relationship is different so not sure what you mean there.



Sensualips -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 5:57:29 PM)

I would assume that all slaves adjust to his or her owner, while the degree of behavior or attitude changes would vary based on the relationship dynamic.

Perhaps by getting her to a certain status, what you really meant was molding a slave to the desired set of behaviors? Behaviors that fit the owner's definition. Still, people and relationships do continue to grow and evolve.



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Art or Science (12/5/2005 7:01:50 PM)

Yes, that pretty much says it. What I will add is that my desired behavior for her may be ways that I perceive are beneficial for her such as gaining confidence, happiness or physical fitness. I hope this explains things for Knight and his slave.



Phoenxx -> RE: Art or Science (12/6/2005 8:12:24 AM)

Personally I feel that all branches of medicine are art and not science. The main reason is that it changes with each person and each doctor.
Different doctors have vastly different and personal treatments and styles. And what will work on one person to cure one problem can be lethal to the next person.
I also feel the same way about the art of BDSM. What can be a total rush and completely fulfilling to one person can cause permanent and long lasting damage to another.
The art lies in finding what is right for those you are treating.
Tony



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