RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others

RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (Full Version)

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BoiJen -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/6/2008 9:11:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Well, I could tell you how to tell them to back off, but not politely. I would suggest one of those electric fly swatters, but they would probibly enjoy it, so that wouldn't work either. Unfortunately there are idiots out there in every type of lifestyle who have to be dealt with from time to time. I just try to ignore them, but it isn't always easy. I wish you good luck on this. oh and as a side thought, you wouldn't have this problem if MsK wasn't so incredibly hot. Maybe thinking about it as a compliment will help while your throwing their rude little asses out the door. Yeah I know lol...She was wearing this awesome gown skirt by Catherine Coatney that matches Her leather and red corset and funny enough...packing. Talk about a twist lol Anyways...I found myself biting my lip as much as I could while She dealt with it as She saw fit. But if you ever hear me comparing shoe sizes with Her it's cuz I'd have to change my shoe size to accommodate whoever is stepping on my toes. :) Hope to see you at DJ's in Nov boiJen

thetammyjo -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/6/2008 9:13:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetDommes fast reply, but inspired by yourhandmyass's response. In all honesty, I don't really see it as a "a sub should ask permission to approach/touch/whatever a Dominant" but more a case of - any person should have the permission of any other person that they plan to touch or get that close to; some people have standing permission to get that close to me (my parents, my sis-in-law, Holly and rob, mostly) but others need to ask before they touch me, even if it's just a hand on the shoulder. The only time it's acceptable to touch me without asking first is if they are falling into me, or if I'm falling and they are trying to catch me. Exactly. A decent human being knows better than to touch another person without permission. For some reason the concept of basic decency and politeness fly out the window for a sad number of folks when they get into subcultures of any type. In sexual subcultures it tends to be worse but it is not absent from other subcultures in my experience.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/6/2008 10:09:44 AM)
yeah I did say don't glom onto someone, which includes touching with out permission, speaing to someone, speak, not touch or kiss or lick or drool on speaking alone, is a diffrent matter entirely than glomming on. quote: ORIGINAL: SweetDommes fast reply, but inspired by yourhandmyass's response. In all honesty, I don't really see it as a "a sub should ask permission to approach/touch/whatever a Dominant" but more a case of - any person should have the permission of any other person that they plan to touch or get that close to; some people have standing permission to get that close to me (my parents, my sis-in-law, Holly and rob, mostly) but others need to ask before they touch me, even if it's just a hand on the shoulder. The only time it's acceptable to touch me without asking first is if they are falling into me, or if I'm falling and they are trying to catch me.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/6/2008 10:13:55 AM)
Maybe It's so obvious what to say cause I'm not in the situation, and when you are in the situation the answer doesn't always seem so clear, but to me it's obvious what's wrong with saying simply say please back off, you're in our space, and it's strait to the point and polite to boot. Then if they refuse to back off go to the social events hosts and point out the pest, and that you asked them to back off and let the event cordinators deal with it. quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen . so I'm here again asking...how do I politely tell someone to back-off? boiJen

SweetDommes -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/6/2008 10:31:51 AM)
It was just a thought I had while reading your post ... not really directed at you - it's late (for me) and my brain tends to go down random routes.

thishereboi -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/6/2008 8:22:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Well, I could tell you how to tell them to back off, but not politely. I would suggest one of those electric fly swatters, but they would probibly enjoy it, so that wouldn't work either. Unfortunately there are idiots out there in every type of lifestyle who have to be dealt with from time to time. I just try to ignore them, but it isn't always easy. I wish you good luck on this. oh and as a side thought, you wouldn't have this problem if MsK wasn't so incredibly hot. Maybe thinking about it as a compliment will help while your throwing their rude little asses out the door. Yeah I know lol...She was wearing this awesome gown skirt by Catherine Coatney that matches Her leather and red corset and funny enough...packing. Talk about a twist lol Anyways...I found myself biting my lip as much as I could while She dealt with it as She saw fit. But if you ever hear me comparing shoe sizes with Her it's cuz I'd have to change my shoe size to accommodate whoever is stepping on my toes. :) Hope to see you at DJ's in Nov boiJen Ok, on that note, I am off to bed and sweet dreams. Thanks for that visual.

Madame4a -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/7/2008 12:44:01 PM)
Usually, I find its the people who should know better (from their own claims of 'lifestyle"* experience etc) who don't know better. Common sense and good old fashioned manners would take people really far, but few actually have either of them. Me, if someone gets too close, inappropriately, I take a step back. Someone gets too close to one of mine, I step in between -- if its really agregious, I will say something like "its not polite to touch anything without permission" ... its such a basic rule in the leather/SM community, I find it amazing when people don't remember it. I do a lot of piercing and sometimes send piercees off on an errand -- I love to watch my handiwork walk away sometimes... with that blissful smile... you'd be amazed how often people stretch a hand out to touch... sheesh, for their own protection they shouldn't do that.. never mind the piercee. In any case, I take care of that several ways... the first is "DON'T TOUCH" ... its simple. I usually try to avoid that though by sending along a spotter, or if its someone I play with a lot, they already know how to do a polite feint to get out of the way. * I hate the word lifestyle

ShaktiSama -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/9/2008 10:21:05 PM)
raises her hand I'm afraid it's another vote for kicking the idiot in the teeth from this domme. Honestly, people who invade a woman's space without permission are not just misguided, they're creepy. Kissing a domme's boot without invitation or consent is no more acceptable than grabbing a submissive's ass without invitation or consent. It's an attempt to force intimacy when none has been agreed to...which is pretty much the definition of sexual harassment. All this being said--this other submissive is not the D-type in this scenario, no. But neither are you. If your D-partner is uncomfortable with being approached or touched by a person, she needs to verbalize that; saying it once should be enough. If her wishes are not respected, the two of you should take appropriate action.

DesFIP -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/10/2008 8:23:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen The first instance was with someone who may have seem MsK at another party...She can't remember him beyond the evening in question...and stated that it was nice to see Her again over rather loud music. He stepped in close and re-introduced himself...and decided to remain close in without regard to me or the other individuals around Her. After several minutes of Her talking to a friend who was waiting on his Lady mr.re-intro got the hint and took off. Later on in the evening while MsK was sitting down someone whom She's known on and off from a select private party approached Her and kissed Her boots even as She was warning him that he should ask Her first...as She's the D-type...not him. She brushed it off after silently checking in with me...eye contact and a squeeze of my hand. My general understanding is that s-types ask permission to have contact and interact with D-types... I thought somethings were basic. ." At that point MsK refused to have any more contact with the individual. So how do I politely deal with these types of situations without blatantly saying "Those are my toes yer standing on and I'd like you to give 'em a break by taking a step back."? How do I remain graceful and tactful...being that those things aren't my in my list of strengths? About Mr Re-intro; she didn't end the conversation. She should have said "I hope you have a good time tonight, now if you'll excuse us" and then turned away. She didn't give him clear enough signals that he could immediately read his presence was not welcome. About the boot kisser. I would hope that this should be obviously bad manners to anyone, sub, dom, vanilla etc. Would he come up and start groping someone simply because they've had conversations in the past? Well he would, but he shouldn't. You don't touch other people in a sexual way without consent. She refused to have anything more to do with him, good clear direct communication of her intent by turning her back or walking away. These types don't understand subtle hints so tact and discretion are not what is called for. You could say, "you are being very rude by doing this, you need to ask if she wants you to do this", but basically they aren't going to do what you say. She needs to tell them "Stop, I didn't ask you to do this. And I don't like people who ignore my (partner/submissive/whatever title you two use)". Rude types need to be told "stop that right now" because they just don't get it.

softpjOS -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/11/2008 10:58:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen So how do I politely deal with these types of situations without blatantly saying "Those are my toes yer standing on and I'd like you to give 'em a break by taking a step back."? How do I remain graceful and tactful...being that those things aren't my in my list of strengths? Dommes hwo would you want your s-types to handle these things? S-types have you had to deal with these types of things in the past? How did you react? Would you do anything differently? boiJen Is this type of thing common else where? Or am I loosing touch with public standards? BoiJen, thank you so much for posting this. I've found myself in very similar situations and for the most part, have bitten my lip until it bleeds. It's not often that we actually get to attend public functions and when we do, it is to spend time together..as a couple. Most often some male sub trys to attach himself to Her and monopolize Her time, going so far as to follow us group to group. When i have brought it up with Her, She has felt, as She put it, doomed no matter what She did. As She sees it, those types thrive on attention.. of any sort. So no matter Her reaction, they are getting what they want. Most often She simply ignores it. She refuses to "stoop to their level" and respond with rude or any comment that may disrupt the enjoyment of others. Last night, i showed Her this thread and we read the responses and discussed the possible solutions. lol She agreed with those that said they would have accidently kicked the boot kisser. We loved the "shoe size" comment and i just may have to borrow that idea. For the obvious, can't take a hint, refuses to go away type... i have been given permission to announce Mistress i finally know what a troll looks like! i wonder if the DM has ever seen one?! [:D]

BoiJen -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/11/2008 2:45:33 PM)
Not a problem. I feel that being a female owned by a Female that these issues and how they're handled aren't "general" in nature. And asking in the "Ask a Master" forum seems dumb...sorry, chick comes running up to any straight male Dom and I don't see him going "Excuse me...you're in my space without asking." And for some unknown reason I didn't think I could be the only one who has experienced this issue. Thanks for the input everyone.

PanthersMom -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/11/2008 4:43:54 PM)
common decency just isn't taught anymore. manners would dictate that a man should never touch a lady in any respect, unless it is a safety issue, without asking. if i'm on fire, and not supposed to be at the moment, by all means help me put it out. otherwise, a simple "may i?" is required. that's just good manners. i didn't think good manners were strictly a lifestyle thing, they should be used at all times. PM

LPslittleclip -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/14/2008 5:56:17 AM)
in the first instance if the individual didn't get the hint or in case my M'Lady didn't hear it i would insert myself and ask what was wanted of my M'Lady. then the individual can restate it to me or explain the continued presence. in the second case i would have inserted myself promptly and interceded and asked my M'Lady if it would be allowed first. as either she or i would have drop kicked the idiot. (hi boijen many happy returns to you and yours)

colouredin -> RE: Excuse me...those are my toes you're stepping-establishing structure to others (10/14/2008 6:05:28 AM)
Manners unfortunatly dont seem available to everyone. I think if it were me with the first one I would probably ignore it in fairness maybe squeese Sirs hand or give him a look, if it went on too long I may make a comment about it probably sarcastic. in crowded spaces or clubs it can be hard to see boundries people bumping into people and its not always clear where the lines are. The second one was just rude, any unsoliceted contact from anyone to anyone is awful and the person recieving it needs to say something, its them being violated and the words should come from them.

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