training for pain (Full Version)

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MasterMatmid -> training for pain (10/6/2008 6:26:47 PM)

[sm=weightlift.gif]  How does one train someone for pain when they are very sensitive to pain?  She says she wants the pain with the pleasure.  




apiercedkitty -> RE: training for pain (10/6/2008 6:31:39 PM)

Just tell her to suck it up and deal with it... lol
Ok, seriously, i find it's a mind over matter thing... sometimes i can take some pretty intense things - other times i'm a whimpering idiot over clothespins... lots of factors at play. One thing i've had done to me is the pleasure starts first... then the pain is added and gradually worked up to higher intensity... without being too graphic - the pain doesn't end until after the end result of the pleasure [:)]




Usako -> RE: training for pain (10/6/2008 6:45:51 PM)

For me, as I try to work up my pain threshold, I find working up in slow bits help. As in, each time add a little more. As said, pleasure helps a lot too. Feeling good makes it easier to handle more pain, sometimes even rubbing the butt in between the beating to more graphic touching.




KnightofMists -> RE: training for pain (10/6/2008 6:55:46 PM)

I posted this sometime ago... maybe it applies to you.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I speak from the Sadistic side of the coin.

I am sure everyone's approach is different, but I will tell you that the body can endure and enjoy incredible amounts of pain. If you want to increase your pain tolerance or more importantly your enjoyment of the experience.... You need to start first and foremost before play begins.

The mind is where the play starts... how you prepare yourself for the play in large part will affect your ability to endure and enjoy the pains that come from the play. It is critical for the Top to have an appreciation of your state of mind going into the play. This appreciation is not only gained with direct comments from you, but also thru the Top's observation of you before and during play. It is also critical that you mentally prepare yourself and approach the play in a proper mindset. Now just to clairify, SM play for physical pain is a much different play than SM play that is emotional/mental pain. Such types of pain can be within a physically painful SM play and often is. But we are talking about physical pain and being mentally prepared for it.

You must be focused on the play. We are not talking about focusing on what the Top is doing or even what you are experiencing in the play. I am saying that you can't be distracted with kids at home or did you remember this or that. The better you are able to close you mind to everything else around you the better. The only thoughts and emotions are about the play.

Approaching it with confidence. One would immediately state that a newbie couldn't readily approach play to a high level, because they lack confidence that is gained from experience. Well this is very wrong. kyra and denika are prime examples of two people that had their first intense SM experiences with me and there is a couple others I have played with as well. kyra played with no one before me, after a couple of testing scenes... I played her and brought her to a level that was beyond what many experience after a few years and took days for her to wrap her mind around. denika had only one experince of SM before me. It was a good test play that allowed her to appreicate some sensations but in no way pushed her pain levels. Her second play was with me and she was quickly thrown into a high intense pain levels that cause a intense rush for both of us. Both approached the play with intense nervousness and excitement. Both had fears of not doing well... but both was mental focused in being confident in me. So, confidence is not just with one self, But also with the Top. The higher level of trust one has the greater confidence one will beable to put into their Top.

Discard Mindlessness thoughts! The belief in limitations of your abilities and what you can endure can have an incredible underminding value in what you will endure. I don't advocate that you consider yourself as being able to take anything with time and effort. But, I am advocating that you not focus or concern yourself with what is limiting to you or what could limit you. Be Mindful! that you can endure and enjoy!... this is more than positive thinking. This is more accepting the challenges of what will come no matter the emotions or thoughts. I would also be mindful that every play is different that complaceny within play will actually inhibit your ability to reach new levels. Accept variety and differences will occur in you play in your reactions in your ability to endure and enjoy from one scene to another. See the trend and not the individual scene. I would also be mindful of not holding on and trying to re-live a past incredible scene. Accept them as the individual achievements and pleasures they are.. not to be compared and lessen or glorified with other experiences. Finally, focus on the process of play and not the goal of play. Great play is not focused on a goal to be achieved at the end of play... it is focused on making the play at the moment it is occuring fun. If you focused on throwing yourself into the moment of the play... well the goal of great play will come on it's own. Constant focus on having Good or Great play will only cause disappointment when it doesn't occur and will ripple into future plays if that is your focus. Enjoy the journey First! and then savor the destination. But always focus on the journey!

Change the Mindset of Pain to Sensation! at the end of it SM is all about sensations... sensations of different degrees. pain is put a measure of sensation. By focusing on the mindset that pain is but a sensation, you begin to mentally bring down the fears that pain has been caused thru your years of growth. We grow up to view pain is bad, the touching of the hot stove to the emotional pain of loss of a loved one. They different sensations, intense sensations, the key to understand is your learning to manage and cope with an every increasing degree and variety of sensations! physically, emotional and mentally!


In the play itself!

I know people talk of warm ups and taking it slow. I personally think this is an approach is very subjective to the individuals in the play. What you consider as a Warm-up could likely be different than another and the same can be said of taking it slow and steady. I do very little warm up ! I do not need to do much warm-up because those I play with tend to be very mentally focused and prepared for the play in the first place. Some wish to start with a soft flogger and move up the spectrum, this in of self to me is a complacency in Repetition that actually makes it harder to increase pain tolerance than it needs to be. Flexiblity and open-minded approaches that are creative are very using in broadening the body and minds ability to cope to every change sensations in the play. It is akin to building the pyramid. the larger the base, the higher one is able to build the pyramid. It is not just the specific toy but, the force of a the toy and the manner it strikes. There is different types of basic sensations.. thud, sting and bite to name a few. The power of each type of sensation will have a different affect on the bottom. soft thud is much different than a heavy thud. starting soft in different sensations in different scenes builds a base to work from, increasing the intensities build upon the base. Bringing different combination of sensations will build the base even higher.


After play!

Aftercare is not just about making sure that the bottom is physically, emotional and mentally ok, and the Dom for that matter. It is also an opportunity to savor the experience. Aftercare and be not just a few hours, but can go into days of discussing and savoring the experience with each other. The talented Top will make note of the aspects that the bottom comments on. What cause them to get excited in the play, what is it they remember and what is it they do not remember. At the higher levels, The Top themself becomes lost in memory of some things. memory after all is but fragments and is never a exact. Aftercare gone well can be a time not only to ressure that all is ok from the scene, but it can be an opportunity set expectations and excitement for the next one. It helps to build the mindsets towards greater play.


Play is a process of fun... increasing ones pain tolerance can be the natural byproduct of having this fun. focus on the process and you will have fun... if you having fun... each time you will go higher, save the limits for those that want to restrict themselves. focus on the challenges at the moment of play that will build your pleasure and experience.


just a few thoughts




kiyari -> RE: training for pain (10/6/2008 7:23:09 PM)

Knight ~

Just... wow!

Thank you




BiteGirl -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 12:46:31 AM)

If you have the pain, then have enough after care and time after, then you play again, then the pain tollerence is built up over time.

Although I don't know the correct amount of time one needs to wait, it may also be different for everyone.




MaamJay -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 1:16:50 AM)

I find that soft touching between application of pain is a great way of combining pain and pleasure, especially for a newbie bottom. A caress after every 4 or 5 strokes soothes away the pain and can have the effect of making them want more pain to get more of the caressing! Also using the traffic light system (green for go, yellow/orange/amber - whatever you call it in your part of the world! for that's about as much as i can handle right now, and red for stop) of safewords can really encourage a new bottom to try to take more. I tell them I will play till I hear orange, so they know the pain levels will gradually intensify until I hear them call that. Once they do call it, I have the choice of how I respond ... I could simply deliver more blows at the same intensity, I could increase the intensity to see if they call red ... or, more usually, I back off a bit and continue to deliver blows and caresses, then reintensify gradually. Quite often they will take more than they did first time before they call orange again, in other words, their tolerance increases and they are able to push past their own first little barrier. That is something I can then praise them about and encourage them, which makes them feel great.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]




tweedydaddy -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 2:13:18 AM)

It's no different to learning to like anything else! remember your first drink? You didn't start with absinthe did you? Start off with a light tingling spanking and work gently in from there, they'll be pulling you along after them before you know it.
It's not that hard.




sadomasokisti -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 2:43:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

I find that soft touching between application of pain is a great way of combining pain and pleasure, especially for a newbie bottom. A caress after every 4 or 5 strokes soothes away the pain and can have the effect of making them want more pain to get more of the caressing! Also using the traffic light system (green for go, yellow/orange/amber - whatever you call it in your part of the world! for that's about as much as i can handle right now, and red for stop) of safewords can really encourage a new bottom to try to take more. I tell them I will play till I hear orange, so they know the pain levels will gradually intensify until I hear them call that. Once they do call it, I have the choice of how I respond ... I could simply deliver more blows at the same intensity, I could increase the intensity to see if they call red ... or, more usually, I back off a bit and continue to deliver blows and caresses, then reintensify gradually. Quite often they will take more than they did first time before they call orange again, in other words, their tolerance increases and they are able to push past their own first little barrier. That is something I can then praise them about and encourage them, which makes them feel great.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]


Using the traffic light system or number system (for example 10 is the highest pain that you can endure at that moment.... 1 is the lowest sensation/pain) does not work for me at all.
Even simply having a safe word in a heavy S&M play interrupts my mindset.  When having a safe word I have problems in processing the sensations/pain that I'm receiving in the right way.  My mind tends to get stuck in the notion that I can stop the pain simply by giving up the safe word in stead of channeling the pain down the right paths.
When I have no say in what is being done to me, I can simply let go and enjoy the pain.

I don't want safe words (have emergency signal reserved for physical emergency, such as cramping, nausea etc.) but at the same time I don't want the dominant to "torture" me without any regards to how I'm responding to the pain.  I try to give as much feedback as I can when I'm playing so the dominant can get as good information as possible of my status.

Increasing pain threshold is for me more about knowing and trusting the sadist, than exercising dirctly for pain. When I trust the sadist not to overdo things too much.  Not to do (unwanted) physical damage. I can enjoy much more pain (actually a helluva lot).




sadomasokisti -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 2:44:57 AM)

Agree, both as a sadist and a masochist.




Subductrssss -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 2:49:35 AM)

I am a wuss when it comes to what I call "organic pain" (stomach ache, headaches, ear aches, broken ankle LOL) and have always described myself as not a pain puppy or a masochist but in the past I have surprised myself with the amount of pain I can take when in the throes of subspace and passion.  I tend to drop and drop fast to the lowest level of sub space or primal space as I have heard it called, I become very feral and cannot articulate, only scream, moan, cry, etc.  I have had wonderful experiences with very little pain and wonderful experiences with tremendous amounts of pain (one comes to mind of being tied in front of an open hotel window (curtains open I mean) and looking down upon the lights of the parking area while gagged and screaming into the gag with tears flowing but experiencing such a rush that it took hours for me to come down afterwards.  And there was one Sadist in the L.A. area I would go to to get beat with a belt across my ass until I was dancing, screaming and crying because it was such a catharsis for me and whatever was on my mind and heart at the time.

To each their own and to each their kink, pain is not something I seek everyday but in it's time and in it's place it is glorious.  And again I am not a masochist or pain puppy, I am simply...... me.




ThundersCry -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 4:41:20 AM)

Feed em plenty of percocet...




DMFParadox -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 6:50:26 AM)

Thanks, Knight. Something to think about.




SassySarijane -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 6:52:15 AM)

Knight,

Thank you so very much for this post. Absolutely wonderful! So much that really resonates with me.




SassySarijane -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 6:57:35 AM)

To the OP:

Simple answer and only my opinion is to mix the pain and the pleasure together and gradually increase the amount of pain over time. It connects them. If you know her well and can read her signals you'll see when more is called for as well as keeping communication and feedback going in the course of play and when you're not playing.

Knight gave absolutely wonderful advice. I'd take it to heart.




BizarSM -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 7:13:36 AM)

Pain-slut
I know I’m in the other end of what you  ask for but maybe you can use my experience.
About pain: if it starts slowly within the area where I can enjoy it I can very easily go with the flow... and that way the sadist can seduce me in whatever direction he wants me to go.
For many years I haven't been so much into the spanking scene but my present Sensei / Master has lived 26 years with a very hardcore masochist. First he tried to meet me with my fascination for dominance with feet - kicking - and now I try to follow him into extreme spanking.
My Master has a totally different technique from what I have been used to because he hits rather quickly not letting me feel only one blow at a time but maybe the pain from the last 3-4 at the same time. It makes pain become "natural" and a wave I'm surfing on.
I'm sure we will end up finding a fantastic combination of the two.
I think the major difference between a pain-slut and others are if one accepts the pain and go into it instead of becoming afraid and fighting it.
Greetings
Susan
P.S.
I have only been with my new Master for 7 weeks so we are rather new to each other. Sunday I wanted to experience the things he used to do to his former slave within what I could take.
He counted the blows. 1100 all in all in series of 50 on thighs, breasts and cunt. The last 100 was on cunt alone.




VivaciousSub -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 7:14:34 AM)

Knight,

Fantastic post! Sir and I have been working O/ur way up through my pain tolerance and I've found that by letting all my thoughts go except for what's happening, I can take more and more. I had an intense session this morning with Him and He was so proud of His little girl! [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

Of course, every time I sit now, I keep smiling!




peppermint -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 7:57:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterMatmid

[sm=weightlift.gif]  How does one train someone for pain when they are very sensitive to pain?  She says she wants the pain with the pleasure.  


I have always found that his patience level determines the pain or the pleasure.  With the proper time and build up of sensations, there is not pain at all.  Do it too fast and it hurts like hell. 




SensibleSam -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 11:38:55 AM)

Pain is a signal of potential tissue damage. It is vital for survival. That's why its so vivid. Put your hand on an electric burner that is on and you will get the message. In fact you will withdraw your hand before your brain receives the pain signal. A reflex will be activated from the spinal cord.

This is natural and appropriate. People like lepers who lack these perceptions and reflexs are in serious troble. The world is full of sharp and hot objects. You need pain in order to avoid thes objects.

However in BDSM where you want to use pain for recreational purposes, you must first overcome the interpretation of pain as a signal for tissue damage. This why training is needed. The amount of training needed is influenced by a lot of factors one of which is the level of trust the sub has for the Dom.

When she feels pain, her body is sending a signal - "Help! I'm being damaged".  She needs to send back a message, "No, I'm not being damaged, my trusted beloved is just taking his pleasure with me".

This is one of the reasons why subs seek out experienced Doms. It's easier to trust some one who knows what he's doing.




aravain -> RE: training for pain (10/7/2008 11:56:22 AM)

Hrm...

Um...

I guess I'm weird?

I didn't have to 'train' to be a masochist... I am one. I enjoy various amounts of pain.

Now, that said, I don't enjoy being randomly hit as hard as possible with no warning before or after.

But I don't have to 'direct the flow' or anything like other people have said. It just goes there.

HOWEVER I do have/use a safeword... because if I get to a point where there is truly no pleasure (which I haven't ever reached yet, believe it or not) or where I can't 'take' any more (usually because I'm getting dizzy and it's hard to know what's going on) or feel like something bad has happened (like actual damage) it's my reflex saying 'STOP, I need attention'

Sorry I'm not much help :(




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