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RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 6:52:23 AM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

There are those that have made the personal attack ad their specialty. Some have worked but the public seems to be tired of the constant negativity.
McCain seems to have learned much from Bush's buddy Rove ant Obama learned what not to do from Dukakis and Kerry. McCain seems desperate
and Obama seems to be able to answer McCain and Palin's ads with little trouble.

I think it's really interesting that giving the light of day to the friendships, mentors, benefactors of Mr. Obama is viewed as "negative campaigning". I guess it might because his social relationships tell much of this mystery man who has so many Americans conned with his elequence. The TRUTH about his relationship with William Ayers, who nominated Obama to his Board of Directors of the Annenberg Challange Foundation, the truth that Obama used his State Senate position to direct State grants to that foundation, the truth that Obama was the attorney for ACORN, a "community actifivist organization" that intimidated, and sued banks in Illinois to make sub prime loans in areas they said were "red-lined" because they were poor people...(sound familiar today?), Tony Rezko who gave Obama, legally Michelle, a sweetheart deal on their property, and on and on. Did I forget to mention that his mentor was Sol Olinski? (If you don't know this person Google Sol Olinski)
Most people wearing Obama buttons have no clue as to the history of a man, a man who has written two memoirs but accomplished nothing legislatively, no record of executive accomplishment, and yet they would put him in the White House to run our country because of his "words, just words"!!
This man Obama

(in reply to SilverMark)

Post #: 21

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 6:53:57 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

This man Obama

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(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 22

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 6:54:45 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

The last view days have seen a rehash of Ayers & Wright (Rez is sure to come up again as well), something we went through in the dem primary. That tactic didn't help Clinton clinch and Obama went on to secure the nomination. Is it going to work this time around in the General Election and give us 4 more years of a pub WH or will it backfire and secure Obama a new residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

Negative ads have often worked in the past but is the public getting tired of them?

What say you, the voter?

I think most people can see past them for what they are... the last attempt to survive by a dying regime.

We were having this conversation in the car this morning. (a 60 mile commute leads to great conversation ) He said that they were discussing negative, slanderous, campaign tactics ( such as Sarah Palin's latest terrorist lying bullshit) and how more and more, the last few big campaigns it has actually been proven to work against the person doing it. Basically, that the American public is disgusted by old party, old man, old business as usual, games. It is one of the things that boosted Clinton into office.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 23

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 7:10:45 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

FR

      Let's call a spade a spade, shall we? (Though that tired old cliche' is probably off limits this campaign...)

       Obama is running on "change" and "hope," on a foundation of his speeches and charisma. He has no record of accomplishment. The way you counter that is by undercutting the confidence voters have in his ability to deliver. He needs a majority to take a leap of faith when they vote. The job of the opposition is to make people hesitate about that leap.

      I expect all sorts of ads questioning his character. Call them what you will.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 24

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 7:16:45 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

Its a good thing that the candidates' characters and ability to deliver are called into question?

Or its a good thing if some candidates' characters and ability to deliver are called into question?

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 25

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 7:21:27 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

LadyE, that depends upon who you ask.

In my opinion, if you call one candidate's into question, then you should be able to look at the one you are supporting with an even brighter light of examination. Unfortunately, our very human trait of defense comes into play and we become unrealistic very quickly. That is when it gets sublimely rediculous.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 26

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 7:26:56 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

I think it's really interesting that giving the light of day to the friendships, mentors, benefactors of Mr. Obama is viewed as "negative campaigning". I guess it might because his social relationships tell much of this mystery man who has so many Americans conned with his elequence. The TRUTH about his relationship with William Ayers, who nominated Obama to his Board of Directors of the Annenberg Challange Foundation, the truth that Obama used his State Senate position to direct State grants to that foundation, the truth that Obama was the attorney for ACORN, a "community actifivist organization" that intimidated, and sued banks in Illinois to make sub prime loans in areas they said were "red-lined" because they were poor people...(sound familiar today?), Tony Rezko who gave Obama, legally Michelle, a sweetheart deal on their property, and on and on. Did I forget to mention that his mentor was Sol Olinski? (If you don't know this person Google Sol Olinski)
Most people wearing Obama buttons have no clue as to the history of a man, a man who has written two memoirs but accomplished nothing legislatively, no record of executive accomplishment, and yet they would put him in the White House to run our country because of his "words, just words"!!
This man Obama

I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 27

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 7:29:21 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

Don't you prefer the smell of success though :-) ?

_____________________________

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 28

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 7:35:06 AM

seeksfemslave

Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline

Well the BBC did its bit.
It mentioned the -ve campaigning then broadcast the accusations against McCain but not Obama.

Since we are the coat-tail state I think we should have a vote.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 29

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 8:21:18 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

It's not that negative campaigning will work. It's that nothing else will at this point. The polls are showing a solid Obama lead for the first time, and there's reason to believe that they may be understating Obama's lead (they've already admitted that their data underrepresents the young who don't have landlines, and Obama's supporters IMO are more likely to vote than McCain supporters). McCain has tries several tactics, including playing up foreign policy experience just to have the economy blow up, selecting Palin as VP to see that bump evaporate, etc. He doesn't have a lot of options at this point, but now his "experience" as one of the Keating Five will get airplay, and not at a propitious time either.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 30

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 8:23:45 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

IMO, it's a valid tactic.

Its only a "valid tactic" if the attacks are truthful, otherwise the use of them is misinformation.

Political scientists note that "character" is often introduced into an election to avoid the issues at hand.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/7/2008 8:26:44 AM >

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 31

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 8:30:55 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Obama is running on "change" and "hope," on a foundation of his speeches and charisma.

The reason this message resonates is that many of us have not been happy to see the USA driven off a cliff in just eight years of misguided leadership.

McCain is finding out that "the surge" isn't doing it form him, and he looks extra bad now because of his Keating Five past. It does boggle one's mind how he could again be pro Banking deregulation after that mishap. Just like back then, McCain is TOO LATE with his own political epiphany.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/7/2008 8:54:24 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 32

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 10:17:22 AM

SilverMark

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Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline

Hmmmm....and of course Keating and the Savings and loan scandal never took place cory?Oh how about Queen Sarah? Come now, Ayres has been gone over and over as has Rezko and yet no proof of anything substantial? Goodness me, after all this time and nothing really found? I wonder just how long you can kick a dead horse trying to bring it back to life? Then of course you have the Rev, an unfortunate but true fact, that many in the black community and in their churches preach in a similar vein. McCain has reverted to a mean spirited and desperate attempt to delve into personalities because the issues do not favor him. He has taken a page from Karl Rove and Georgie Boy politics....hasn't worked, and won't work this time. McCain and his followers had better get back to issues oh say....THE ECONOMY? JOBS? the things real people care about! People will (if they haven't already)
tune the old guy out and Ms. Palin will only be remembered for the fodder that has been fed to SNL for a few really funny skits.

It is nothing more than a smoke screen for the Republican's weakness....

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 33

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 10:32:24 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

Negative ads usually work, but I think in this case they will backfire because there are serious issues like a war and financial crisis to discuss -- Obama appears to be doing a good job of turning the negative ads back at McCain as a sign he has no solution for the issues, and it makes the ads look like a desperate attempt to stop his slide in the polls.

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(in reply to SilverMark)

Post #: 34

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 10:34:05 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

Let's see, doing the math...

The thing in Chicago must've taken place when Obama was 8 years old. Wow, I didn't realize his history of "dirty politickin'" whent back to when he was in grade school...

Oh, and the charity foundation thing? As I understand it, the one and only time he was even in the same room with the guy was during a single public meeting, which lasted exactly 15 minutes. Man, these guys must be organized, to be able to conscript the morals and ethics of a guy in under 20 minutes, via a note that must have been passed in class...

But, keep talking cory... you're only helping my side of things. (I feel like Biden during the debate... just let 'em talk, and the BS becomes obvious to everyone.)

(in reply to SilverMark)

Post #: 35

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 11:58:11 AM

hoodie

Posts: 108
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

LadyE, that depends upon who you ask.

In my opinion, if you call one candidate's into question, then you should be able to look at the one you are supporting with an even brighter light of examination. Unfortunately, our very human trait of defense comes into play and we become unrealistic very quickly. That is when it gets sublimely rediculous.

I think I'm about to agree with you again.

They all should be out there, for everyone, for everything. Let's disclose donor lists.

There's one problem to this though. Would they, meaning the candidates, be willing to own up to it? Now there's the catcher isn't it? How do we know that Obama hasn't had anymore than a "business" relationship with Ayers? How do we know that McCain hasn't visited John Hagee's church on several occasions, or been lifelong friends with him?

We don't. We're relying on other people to tell us that, and 3/4's of the time, we could call bullshit on the report from the first sentence in.

That being said, the negative ads, I've concluded, won't go away at all. It is, through my own interpretation, both candidates who've played the negativity game. And I don't distinguish who did it more. Doing it once means is one too many to then accuse the other side of it.

_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 36

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 12:05:26 PM

justgemmie

Posts: 246
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

never mind.

< Message edited by justgemmie -- 10/7/2008 12:06:08 PM >

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(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 37

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 2:45:22 PM

Irishknight

Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Let's see, doing the math...

The thing in Chicago must've taken place when Obama was 8 years old. Wow, I didn't realize his history of "dirty politickin'" whent back to when he was in grade school...

We all know how dirty those elections for 3rd grade class president can be. I think I heard that he called his opponent a "doodyhead." We should definately look into this further. Where is his 3rd grade teacher? We need a witness.
I also heard that he was caught peeking under girls' dresses and that he once snuck into the girls' bathroom. Nope. Can't vote for a man of such low moral character.

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 38

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 3:07:48 PM

BitaTruble

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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

William Ayers, I don't think there is any doubt, was a terrorist and people died as a direct result of his influence if not his activities. I really don't believe there is any dispute to that and I certainly wouldn't dispute it myself.

The question in my mind is .. was Obama aware of that when he sat down in Ayers living room to make his decision to run for office? Being about the same age as Obama, I had never heard of William Ayers before this presidential season began. I don't, generally, do background checks on people. Should Obama be held to a different standard than your average American? Should he be held responsible for, perhaps, being unaware of Ayers past? Ayers hasn't tried to hide his past but is Obama gullible for not running to Google to check this guy out prior to that first meeting?

I'd put Rezko in that same sort of category. How much was Obama truly aware of, how close are they really and how much responsibility should Obama have in being accountable for the actions/activities of associates, co-workers, mentors and others? Does that same standard hold true for McCain? He's married to a drug addict/thief but the contention made by Mrs. McCain is that the Senator was unaware of her addictions/thiefing. Should McCain be held responsible for not knowing his wife well enough? Does her fathers affiliations with organized crime reflect on McCain? Then there is Keating. The McCain camps makes it a point to put the word out there that McCain was never convicted although he was wrist slapped by the ethics committee. McCain turned his act around, didn't repeat it so in that sense, seems to have been rehabilitated but it can't be denied he was certainly involved in the S&L fiasco that surrounded Keating.

McCain associated with criminals but renounced the activities. Obama has associated with criminals but renounced their activites.

I've seen the pundits talk about how important it is to the people that they be made aware of the connections that Obama has with dubious elements of society regardless of whether or not he, personally, has been accused of personal criminal activities himself. On the one hand, Obama may have some connections to such characters and on the other, McCain actually was one such character.

In light of the economy, $2 trillion dollars of retirement funds lost over the last 15 months, are character attacks which can be done on either side really what the American people need to hear in a town hall or any other sort of debate?

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Irishknight)

Post #: 39

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 3:58:01 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

Don't you prefer the smell of success though :-) ?

Yes, but I enjoy savoring one thing at a time.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 40

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