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Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 4:44:23 AM   
ToysAndTies


Posts: 124
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		Does anyone else check the forums every couple of days, and seeing the same thread topics that he/she/ye's see every week, muttered to themselves "again?" before heading over to slate.com?  Now, I'm not trying to be an antagonist here, however, I feel like so often I read things that, though they may be in a kink context, typify some major lacks of communication and understanding in this or Any social environment.  The ability to read cues and body language, time management between business and personal lives, jealousy issues, long-term relationships...  I feel like just by surviving relationships with very different people (and I do use 'surviving' tongue in cheek) a person is bound to gain a better understanding of the basics and then transfer that understanding into the kink world.

My title refers to the divide between online 'communities' and real-life friendships, and getting out of your head...that's the hyperanalytical thought process I frequently come across in fellow lifestylers (of course, periodically, I'm no exception).

People spend hours upon hours on the computer now, IMing, emailing, blogging, forum...ing (verb?) so much so in some that it seems a major part of the human experience is being abandoned.  Munches, in my opinion, are the best way to meet people and make new friends because humans are social creatures by nature, not meant to be locked up in cubes or chained to desks as we so often find ourselves.  I message people on here as often as the next bloke, but it's fascinating to me to see how scared people are at times to even meet somewhere in public.  I know what you're thinking; jaded guy isn't getting responses, but that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about many conversations between friends yielding the same result.  I see the net as a means of setting up one's own blind dates, essentially, not as some alternate universe in which I can live a Second Life.

In terms of getting out of one's head, compared to 'nillas, I often get the impression that kinksters (and any generalization is inherently wrong but I'm simplifying for the model's sake) almost seem more concerned with fitting in because we are so used to feeling like outsiders for so long.  Once the dam of our hidden thoughts and feelings bursts, the little Dutch boy gets flogged mercilessly by the oncoming deluge of our inner workings.  Take, for example...this post.  But carrying over a few lessons learned as an ex-Catholic, I can smell when people feel guilty about something they need not be ashamed of.  My response to many of these kinds of 'help me' posts are simple; we're all human, and we all make mistakes from time to time.  That's ok, but it's important to forgive each other and move on when we do.  Life's just too short.

Pardon the rantesque format of this post, and my apologies to grammarians shirking at my end-of-sentence prepositions, but I was going on a stream of consciousness and lost a paddle.  Thanks for reading.
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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 7:20:12 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Well I read this and thought, what are you doing to promote, encourage and welcome others into your local community? As someone who only poked my toe into the community recently, I gotta tell ya, it can be rather intimidating to walk into a group, knowing they've complained about people like me who haven't attended before. In a crowded room full of people, THREE people went out of their way to embrace the newcomers. And yet, one of those three scowled at me when I told her I posted to CollarMe.

So...complain about people like me, or invite me in. Which do you think is more productive?


PS: I'm not complaining about the local group. There seemed to be a lot of really nice people there. I'm just trying to illustrate what might keep others from attending / returning. Ranting about them might be one reason.

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 10/8/2008 7:23:15 AM >

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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 7:56:30 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		Quote:
I see the net as a means of setting up one's own blind dates, essentially, not as some alternate universe in which I can live a Second Life.

I on the otherhand have no interest at all in setting up my own blind date and essentially see the net as some alternate universe in which i can live a second life...i mean why live only one if you can live two? i love it, some times i even read a book and then i feel like i live someone elses life aswell...windows, escapism, enrichments, education....you can use all the stuff you pick up here (or in a book) to apply on the little time one has left to live in real time...sometimes it works much more satisfactory in cyber though, there is a lack of flesh here that is true, but also a very nice lack of limits and that is liberating, for me anyway.

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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 9:33:28 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		But does it really always have to be 'us' and 'them'?

Why not simply 'be' and allow others to do the same?

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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 9:50:09 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		A person can't show up at a munch for the first time and say "hey, I have a question.  My wife was fisting me last night and I think she was missing the mark.  Since it was our first time doing it, I was wondering if anyone had advice for us so that tonight she can keep from ripping my anus to shreds." 

Well, they COULD, but are they likely to?  No, they are more likely to keep their mouths shut and wait until they know people better and actually get to know a few people well enough that they feel comfortable asking those questions.  And in the mean time they will be plodding along in their bedroom learning first hand, OR they will come to a forum like CM where they will be mostly anonymous and able to ask their questions without fear of face to face rejection.

People who don't have a local munch, maybe don't have adequate child care to attend them as often as they would like, maybe they just prefer to communicate with other like minded individuals more often then their local scene allows, or maybe they like having so many more opinions and thoughts to chose from, maybe those are the people of CM and other kinky forums.


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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 9:59:32 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Seems to me like there are a bunch of peeps here who are both here -and- out in the world.  This place provides a community to a lot of diverse people and you get a lot of interesting POVs and views from around the world - it takes all sorts...and most of them are represented here.  I like that.

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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 10:29:26 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		I don't see why it should have to be one or the other. Community is community, and I am fortunate to be able to have the best of both worlds -- as an active participant on both the boards and in the 'meat world'. When I get frustrated with the boards, I just step away for a day or two. When I get frustrated with the local community, I skip a SIG or a munch. For me, though, life is an integral process.

I can say that I've met some amazing people that I might never have had a chance to encounter if I'd only participated offline... and the same goes in the other direction. The world is a big place, and the opportunities to learn never (or share) never cease, so for me, the best life makes use of any opportunity placed in front of me.

Calla Firestorm


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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 2:37:56 PM   
ToysAndTies


Posts: 124
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		Hi, NuevaVida

Ouch, sorry to hear about the luck with the local group.  I had a very different response when I went to my first munch.  Most groups I've been with go out of their way (as a whole, not just two or three individuals) to welcome fresh meat to be club...i mean, to the club.  Check out my profile on the other side; I'm all about the inviting everyone in earshot to come out and have a good time.  My frustration lies when that invite, after six or seven attempts, still falls on deaf or fearful ears.  Coming out to a lifestyle event, either a class or a munch, is a bit like having your own mini-debutant balle; you're letting the world know "Hey everyone, I'm here, and I'm a little crazy...but I hear I'm in good company."  Any time the focus of strangers is on you, it can be a bit daunting.

Hello Ranja,

I agree that the escapism part of the internet is appealing, either in forums and a persona or almost vicariously through reading other people's blogs or diaries (like books), but the same element that makes it a pleasant escape is precisely what makes it a slippery home.  With the freedom and anonymity of the internet comes a lack of accountability, which, in general, can produce two results:  frank discourse knowing that it can in no way be traced back to you outside of a username, or boundless ignorance, again, knowing that it can in no way be tracked down to the source (people exchange harsher messages, troll, spam, etc in ways they never would if they had to sign their names to it).

**I don't post often, so I'm responding en mass in lieu of inflating my thread with a ton of my own posts**

Hi Stella

I wasn't intending an us / them dichotomy, more trying to foster a sense of exploration in some of us with different sentiments.

Hello, Miss Tress

I am totally the guy who will show up at a munch for the first time and break the ice with, "You know what's not fun?  When a flogger meant for my bum totally gives me a reach around and knocks me to the floor.  Learned that one last night."  I think these questions do work their way into munches, and while the forum responses are great, there's nothing like hearing someone's laughter and seeing them smile in real time.  Personally, "  :)  lol  " will never give me the same amount of joy.  As one responder to this thread pointed out to me though, forums do have the benefit of reaching a much wider geographic area than a munch could, giving a plus point in the comp column.

Hello OttersSwim,

Indeed, forums do get points for diversity and different cultural / world perspectives

Hi CallaFirestorm

I guess the main difference that I am discussing is how some people view the internet as another world, almost like a parallel existence, and others (and this is my stance) see it as essentially an interactive newspaper or intricate telephone.  For one it's a place, for others, a tool.

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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 10:13:23 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ToysAndTies

Hi, NuevaVida

Ouch, sorry to hear about the luck with the local group.  I had a very different response when I went to my first munch.  Most groups I've been with go out of their way (as a whole, not just two or three individuals) to welcome fresh meat to be club...i mean, to the club.  Check out my profile on the other side; I'm all about the inviting everyone in earshot to come out and have a good time.  My frustration lies when that invite, after six or seven attempts, still falls on deaf or fearful ears.  Coming out to a lifestyle event, either a class or a munch, is a bit like having your own mini-debutant balle; you're letting the world know "Hey everyone, I'm here, and I'm a little crazy...but I hear I'm in good company."  Any time the focus of strangers is on you, it can be a bit daunting.



It certainly wasn't a bad experience. I just felt awkward since I didn't know anyone and went alone. So it was as much internal as anything else. I understand that people get together to hang out with friends and discuss like topics, and when they do they're not so likely to want to spend that time with newcomers who might not even return. That's why I added that my post was not intended as a complaint. The hosts of the munch were gracious and welcoming, and spent a good deal of time at our "newbie table." And us newbies talked a lot and joked about "sitting at the kids table".

Overall it was an ok experience. My point is, your OP was a rant about people who don't go to such events, so how is someone going to feel when they finally decide to go? "OK I'll go, but those are the people who complain about people like me." See what I'm saying? And my point about the CollarMe comment was to illustrate a bias that exists "out there" (wherever that is) against those who prefer to do their own thing, or those who haven't stepped out yet. Your OP reinforces that, which might indirectly sway people from taking that first step.

By the way, I hope you found your paddle.

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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/8/2008 11:38:06 PM   
SlaveIndigochild


Posts: 272
Status: offline 		i have one life and i live it 24/7 albeit off my head (rather than inside or outside of it). 

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I've seen just the opposite! - 10/9/2008 3:17:04 AM   
masterforRT


Posts: 176
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline 		I (have) found myself warmly welcomed into several local groups (on both coasts) immediately, yet here I found myself ostracized by (several) people, some who seem particularly nasty!
People here seem MUCH more cliquish then my RT experiences....
So...as they say, YMMV.

< Message edited by masterforRT -- 10/9/2008 3:18:04 AM >

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RE: I've seen just the opposite! - 10/9/2008 3:26:18 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		I do both, I think both has merits and I really do think the OP is showing a them us mentality, just because you post online doesnt instantly mean you dont go to events, also if you dont do either you are no less involved in D/s. I run a munch which i love but I have been to many munchs where you feel aqward where everyone is ruffling their tial feathers at you and to be fair at least online you can block that.

I dont think that being involved in D/s means that you have to be involved in the community anyways and I also dont think that there is a best way to meet people ive met some online some at events none at munchs. So by the OP's ideology im doing something wrong. Also a real put off for me would be the bloke who talks about their personal lives when i dont know them.  I wouldnt walk into a bar and tell randomers I had just had a great shag i equally dont want to hear about someone elses scene last night,

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RE: I've seen just the opposite! - 10/9/2008 6:54:39 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		Seven years ago, when I began to interact online with others involved in BDSM and D/s, it really was my way of "getting out of my head".  Before that, I NEVER revealed those thoughts to anyone.  It was an amazing experience to find other people who shared my thoughts and fantasies.  I spent a couple of years of intense online time (speaking with couples and people who lived D/s offline, and maintaining online D/s relationships- along with some phone time), and then sought out real time groups.  As some have mentioned, munches can be a bit cliquish, and my first experience was that way.  I was able to find some small, supportive groups, but in the end, I met my boy online.  The number of submissive men who attended the munches and groups was very small, and online sites offered more choice (and frustration as well!).

LadyJulieAnn

< Message edited by LadyJulieAnn -- 10/9/2008 6:55:57 AM >

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RE: I've seen just the opposite! - 10/9/2008 7:46:25 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		I always felt that online resources enhanced our offline life.  I am dating someone here in Daytona that I met online here at CollarMe.  I understand your comment because I recently discovered that some people have “online relationships”.  However, I think they are a minority.

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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/9/2008 8:40:36 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		Toys and ties, thank you for your reply...I agree some people see cyber as a ticket to be rude...i am of the opinion they probably are rude in real life too but perhaps the behind your back type, not so brave really...i always try to be polite myself but thats just me...i fail on occasion too unfortunately and usually feel most disappointed in myself when i do.
I dissagree about your two results type of idea about cyber...there are many people here who are polite and considerate and there is a total fantastic world out here that you can create as you go along with a partner who fills in all the right places and spaces and if you are tuned in and can go with it, you can even feel it too...it all depends how plyable your brain is. There really is so much more possible here than many realise...but yes it is an alternate universe and the time spend might be considered wasted by some...like watching a movie if you like...
Good luck with your search

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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/9/2008 9:18:06 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		In many ways, people do put a lot of thought into topics on the message board.  Perhaps in some regards it's a bit overkill, where things are being ripped apart.  The whole human relationship factor in general and how it translates into BDSM relationships often becomes a problem.   There are general relationship principals that apply to any and all relationships.   Some people don't simply get it, that some of these issues apply equally to D/s or BDSM relationships as they would non D/s or non BDSM relationships.

Issues with communication, insecurity and yes... things that apply to any social relationship apply very much so.  D/s is a relationship structure, it's not an excuse to ditch or abandon communication.

I've read some posts where some submissive types expressed if they shared with activitity desire or wants, that it would feel like they are being more in control of the things if their Dom partner complies.   This in my opinion is a bit of a mental personal mindfuck.  Just because one expresses and interest in some activitity, really means that they are turning their desires, wants, wishes and fantasies over to a Dom partner.  They are actually entrusting their Dom partner with more and further control. 

I know I enjoy the control and power over my partners fantasies.  To be able to have the power to grant or deny or be in control it.   To know that when I doing something that my s-type partner enjoys, that I'm in control of it.   This gives me a sense of pleasure and satisfaction as well.   Hell, even being able to use their desire, and whisper it into their ears.   See their reaction at the thought of it, tease them with their own fantasies and desires.  Hahaha...

Nothing wrong with communication from both sides of the coins, however some people attempt to take D/s to some extreme and remain silent.  Attempting to maintain their precieved stereotype roles based on orientation.

I don't know, there are days when I question if I'm the crazy one or not.  Perhaps I'm not being D/s enough in my own mentality, or perhaps I'm spot on.  Everybody has their own way of doing things, and their own perspectives.  

I know my perspective is not the same as everybody elses, at times I might have a lot in common with others on here.  At times, I feel like some topics I don't have a lot in common with people. 

Still the real life factor is always different compared to talking about 101 What if's..  Life has a way of fucking with our imaginations, notions and thought processes. 

In many regards, I have used this message board for a great deal of introspection into some things or aspects from my past relationships.  In terms of current and future relationships, the experiences and dynamics always have some new interesting twists or curve balls, that nobody can fully predict ahead of time.

Life comes at you fast.. like those TV Ads go...  never know.

I'm a human being first and formost, who happens to be a guy that is a Dominant. Some personal curve balls for some people is the fact I have both a sado and maso streak to me.  Makes for interesting conversation at times, even more so expressing how it works for me as a male Dominant.   Everybody is not like me though.

I have my own quirks and flaws and faults I'm far from perfect.  Lately, I've had to bit the bullet and express some of my own personal internal conflicts to somebody close to me.  Not always the easy thing to do, to be open with somebody on these levels. 

Often it's expressed about how a sub/slave should be naked and open mentally, emotionally to their D partner.  The same applies to D-types as well.  Ok, perhaps I might run the risk of sounding like an insecure jackass at times.   I'm somewhat secure in the fact, that I even have to deal with issues of insecurity from time to time.  Not always the prettiest of emotions and thoughts to share with somebody, however... it's called being honest with yourself and another person and being to address these issues.

Problems or issues swept under a rug, never get addressed, never get fixed nor worked upon.  Working on a relationship is two sided.  Both the submissive and Dominant have their share of the work to do in the relationship.  A lot of is centered around emotional care of one another.   Us humans tend to be reather emotional creatures regardless if we care to admit to it or not.

If I expect for a submissive to be open and honest with me, I should hold myself to the same standards and be open and honest with them as well.  It's just as much as a challenge for use D types as it can be for s-types as well.   Dare I express this process gives the Dominant more empathy and understanding in regards to the opening up process as well.   The things that make me want to clam up and be silent about things, are the same things that make many other people do the same thing as well.

Everybody tends to see the world from the perspective of themselves first and foremost.  Why?  because we actually live inside ourselves.   When I look in the mirror I see myself,  When I feel pain, I'm the one that is experiencing it, not my partner.  When my Partner feels pain, I don't automatically feel it.  When they look in the mirror, I don't automatically see them in my head looking at themself.   Case in point, is that we see the world from our perspective first and formost, everybody and everything else comes secondary after that.   It's just the physical reality.  My own brain is inside my body, wired to my body, my sensory input is mine, my thoughts are mine.   This is the way it works for most people you know. 

Whew... enough of this long winded response... 

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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/9/2008 2:38:36 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, is the quick answer to that.

I stopped contributing here a while ago for reasons like that. I like being made to think and questioning my own thinking, but I got bored ( with myself, as much as anything else).

I've had while away and it's rather nice to read the boards again. In between, I've learned to play the banjo and spent time and thoughts in other areas of life.

Regards, agirl







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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/9/2008 8:41:01 PM   
ToysAndTies


Posts: 124
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		Woah, active day; here goes : )

Hi NuevaVida

I wasn't necessarily saying that the best way to enjoy the scene is to come out to parties and events, however, it is, I believe, the best way to meet the locals.  I'm not painting an us them because I've been both; in my earliest D/s relationships, it was very private, never public, and no one's damn business be them strangers or family.  Now I have a different take on it, mainly because I put myself in a situation that I at first found uncomfortable just to see if I would thrive in it.  People have different learning styles; I tend to be tactile, while the internet caters to more visual learners I suppose.  Just a theory.

Slaveindigochild... go nuts : ) I'll meet you there.

Hi MasterForRT

This goes a bit back to my point before about anonymity...I have a feeling a lot of nasty people online are not nearly as brazen in person (though, of course, I imagine some are)

Salutations, colouredin

I'd sought to make my OP and reply as non-confrontational as possible, but as always, the devil's in the details and the interpretation.  First off, I don't recall establishing some scale of who I thought was the best D/s-er and who the worst:  I did not condemn or demonize the act of posting to the forums, merely welcomed people to trying other means of connecting besides the most comfortable.  If someone never went online and only met people IRL, I'd say (and have) "hey, there's a great site you should join.  You'd be surprised what you could learn and who you may stumble across there."  It's only by dancing on the edge of the familiar that we grow as individuals, or a collective group.

Secondly, most of the kinky friends I have, I met through vanilla interactions, and only found out later through conversation about some common interests.  To clarify, I never said you were doing anything wrong.  Everyone has a style that suits them, some just take a bit longer to find it than others.  That's all.  Oh, and the post about the flogging story...that was more to illustrate feeling comfortable talking about anything.  You may be into some very strange activities, but chances are, if you're at a party with thirty other kinksters, someone there shares at least one with you.

Hello Lady JulieAnn

Looking for boys and girls online is great, but it is a bit like shopping for cars.  They may look great in the photos, but you need to ride'em before you know it's a good fit.  *innocent smile*

Well-put Resident Sadist, and, as always, snappy photos

Online resources are great in that a person can investigate all their interests, however embarrassing or prurient, without fear of discovery or shame.  I read anything I can get my hands on regarding topics of interest, and for most people, it's easier to find a good resource on the net than an expansive Kink section in your local library.

Hi again, ranja

I think, online and in real life, that politeness and courtesy are in a dangerous decline.  Maybe it's because I'm from New Jersey, but in general, it's like people are forgetting how to be civilized.  Of course, there's a major portion of the population that is still well-mannered and better, well-intentioned, but the increasing acceptability of previously intolerable behaviors and conduct are indeed a problem.  Now, there's such a thing as cyberbullying...kids particularly getting picked on via chat and instant messages by other children...  As long as no one arrests me for a beating I dish out in a chat room, I think I'll be ok.

Hey Whiplashsmile and where, oh where should I begin

You make a lot of good points.  I think the most salient are the need for good, clear, honest communication in any relationship, as well as the necessity of loving and accepting oneself and one's partners not only in spite of their flaws but including them.  We are our toughest critics (unless you have a really really mean Master, but...I digress) and sometimes it's hard to look past our own shortcomings and consider ourselves worthy of another's devotion and attention.  I also like your Cartesian ownership of the senses... at the end of the day, all I know is "I am."

Last but not least, agirl, welcome back.  I have a mandolin at home, but am not good at strings.  Good reminder that we're all that this is one aspect of our lives, one of many shining facets, and we're just tapping the tip of the iceberg when reaching out to new contacts and friends.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: Jumping the divide and getting out of your head - 10/9/2008 9:48:56 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Yes, is the quick answer to that.

I stopped contributing here a while ago for reasons like that. I like being made to think and questioning my own thinking, but I got bored ( with myself, as much as anything else).

I've had while away and it's rather nice to read the boards again. In between, I've learned to play the banjo and spent time and thoughts in other areas of life.

Regards, agirl









It is so good to see you here again!! (psst, you knew me as ownedgirlie before). Welcome back!!

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