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Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 11:13:37 AM   
Subductrssss


Posts: 97
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline 		I have always had a fascination with breathe play; specifically with a Dominant taking my throat in His hand and squeezing.  I will even press my throat harder into His hand. It totally drives me immediately into subspace. Most of the Dominants I have dealt with have had no problem with this and have the safety knowledge to know when too far is too far.  But I am not sure on my side on how safe I am or can be, it seems like sometimes I seek to push it to the edge but I am not looking to pass out nor to pass on (if you know what I mean). 

How prevalent is this love of "choking" breath play and how can I make sure I do not push a Dominant past what His limits are regarding this? Or how do I get a Dominant to do what I need as some are reluctant? I know about negotiations and such having been in this lifestyle since 1997, but also havng not participated since 2004 I am kind of starting over as a newbie in a way.

I have not "met" the One yet but I have met a wonderful Dom for coffee but who knows if that will go anywhere and actually am talking to one long distance that if it never goes anywhere but friends He is a great one and a great source of help for me at this time in my life.

< Message edited by Subductrssss -- 10/9/2008 11:16:23 AM >

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The reality of the other person lies not in what he reveals to you but in what he cannot reveal to you. Therefore, if you would understand him, listen not to what he says but rather to what he does not say.
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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 11:25:54 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		One thing I never do is tell another that breath play is 'ok' to do, and I am not going to start now.

It's obviously something that you enjoy, and something that you feel safe doing with those you play with. However, I would advise strong caution when trying to push someone who is 'reluctant' into doing this. Their reluctance speaks very loudly; it screams that they are not comfortable, knowledgable, nor capable of this level of play. You should heed their own warning that they are giving to you.

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 11:34:22 AM   
BittersweetDomme


Posts: 4
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		I personally enjoy breath play very much.  I would stress that I am with my life long partner and Dom and we have the upmost trust, respect and love for each other.

He know me very, very well and knows exactly what floats my boat.

I find that having my breath held for me, beyond my control, heightens all my sexual feelings and makes my orgasm so much more intense.

He has made me pass out a number of times, but this was not from strangulation but by using the pressure points on the neck,  I found this both sexually exciting and scarey at the same time.

I would never attempt to try this with anyone other than someone who knows you extremely well and with this there is much risk, which should never be underestimated.



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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 11:52:32 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		http://members.aol.com/Oldrope/breath.htm

(from same article by Jay Wiseman)

"...As a person with years of medical education and experience, I know of no way whatsoever that either suffocation or strangulation can be done in a way that does not intrinsically put the recipient at risk of cardiac arrest. (There are also numerous additional risks; more on them later.)

Furthermore, and my *biggest* concern, I know of no reliable way to determine when such a cardiac arrest has become imminent. ...

Quick pathophysiology lesson # 1: When the heart gets low on oxygen, it starts to fire off "extra" pacemaker sites. These usually appear in the ventricles and are thus called premature ventricular contractions -- PVC's for short. If a PVC happens to fire off during the electrical repolarization phase of cardiac contraction (the dreaded "PVC on T" phenomenon, also sometimes called "R on T") it can kick the heart over into ventricular fibrillation -- a form of cardiac arrest. The lower the heart gets on oxygen, the more PVC's it generates, and the more vulnerable to their effect it becomes, thus hypoxia increases both the probability of a PVC-on-T occurring and of its causing a cardiac arrest.  ...

Some people teach that choking can be safely done if pressure on the windpipe is avoided. Their belief is that pressing on the arteries leading to the brain while avoiding pressure on the windpipe can safely cause unconsciousness. The reality, unfortunately, is that pressing on the carotid arteries, _exactly_ as they recommend, presses on baroreceptors known as the carotid sinus bodies. These bodies then cause vasodilation in the brain, thus there is not enough blood to perfuse the brain and the recipient loses consciousness. However, that's not the whole story.

Unfortunately, a message is also sent to the main pacemaker of the heart, via the vagus nerve, to decrease the rate and force of the heartbeat. Most of the time, under strong vagal influence, the rate and force of the heartbeat decreases by one third. However, every now and then, the rate and force decreases to zero and the bottom "flatlines" into asystole -- another, and more difficult to treat, form of cardiac arrest. There is no way to tell whether or not this will happen in any particular instance, or how quickly. There are many documented cases of as little as five seconds of choking causing a vagal-outflow-induced cardiac arrest.  ..."


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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 12:22:26 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The truth is that I love breath play, but he will not put me at risk by making me pass out. So we have explored and found out that I don't need that. What I do need is simply the knowledge that he could if he chose to. That him wrapping his hand around my throat is enough for me. Knowing my life is in his hands is enough.

More than that I find I am totally in thrall to him putting his hands around the front of my throat, grabbing the back of the neck to control my head, him biting my neck. We've really moved from breath play to neck play to get the reaction out of me that he wants.

Oh yeah, and although pinching my nose shut while kissing me should be a safe way to control my breath, all it does is piss me off. Give me his breath by exhaling into my mouth fine, pinch my nose not so fine.

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 12:33:53 PM   
LordVelvet


Posts: 311
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

One thing I never do is tell another that breath play is 'ok' to do, and I am not going to start now.

It's obviously something that you enjoy, and something that you feel safe doing with those you play with. However, I would advise strong caution when trying to push someone who is 'reluctant' into doing this. Their reluctance speaks very loudly; it screams that they are not comfortable, knowledgable, nor capable of this level of play. You should heed their own warning that they are giving to you.



What she said cuz she's super cool

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 12:46:31 PM   
QandA


Posts: 48
Joined: 9/22/2008
Status: offline 		I've got to agree with angelikaJ.  I know that a lot of people thing it's safer to cause someone to lose consciousness through cutting off the carotid arteries.

Another major concern with that is that whenever blood flow is interrupted it opens up the possibility for clots to form.  In the carotid arteries that means a stroke.

In paramedic classes they teach several non-chemical methods for slowing a patient's heart rate.  Carotid artery "massage" is falling out of favor, and it's being stressed to use extreme caution -- not to mention only doing one side of the neck -- just for this reason.

lil Aidan

[edited for spelling]


< Message edited by QandA -- 10/9/2008 12:47:17 PM >

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 1:05:34 PM   
tactileartist


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline 		Master and I don't do breath play at all - but we do some throat play. 

We have rehearsed, rehearsed, rehearsed where his hands can and cannot go on my neck/throat/jaw.  His hands are big enough to span around the front of my throat, grip the tendons on the sides or both sides of my jaw, without putting any pressure on the carotids, jugulars, or trachea.  It does help that we're married, and we do have those hours to devote to this.

We classify this as RACK play.  It is definitely NOT SSC play by any stretch. We've spent more than two years working this out actively in terms of gauging clear airway, clear blood flow, the strength of my neck, etc.  I  have gotten some minor neck strain resulting in headache at one point, and that resulted in a four hour debriefing about where that "too much pull" point was as he was pulling me around by my hair, as I didn't really notice it being a problem at the time.

It is NOT something I would recommend freely - there is a risk of severe neck injury! - but I will say that you might want to consider this as an alternative to breath play.  It does provide an excellent primal sense of being controlled with a much, much lower risk of severe injury than what you're describing.  Please note that lower risk does not, in any way, shape or form, indicate NO risk.  Do your research about all types of neck, throat, and airway injuries before you begin.

Both Master and I have spent quite a bit of time doing our own medical research.  We know what can happen if there's an accident.  We've taken steps to minimize all other risks that would make risk of a neck injury more lightly - including regular testing to make sure my neck muscles are strong enough to keep this within what we consider an acceptable risk. The worst that can happen is that one of us slips and falls in such a way that I die of a broken neck - so we never do this on a surface where we don't have good footing, or in a place we haven't cleared of obstacles, or don't know the furniture placement intimately, or whatever. We always keep in mind what all the risk factors are, and that while it's unlikely I'll snap my neck, it is possible.  Becoming dismissive of the potential injuries vastly increases the chance of their occurrence. 

I hope that helped give food for thought.  I also hope I've been clear enough that I'm NOT at all saying that this is a SAFE alternative to breath play.  Anything involving the neck - even wearing a collar with a leash - has a risk.

(in reply to LordVelvet)
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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 1:34:46 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Its perfectly safe till you kill someone, I have never killed anyone but I have had them go into seizures and collapse.  Scared the living fuck out of me and forever changed how I do breath play.  I NEVER put pressure on the side of the neck anymore, I lay my hand over the neck and in the heat of passion that is more than enough.  I put my hand over their mouth or nose, sometimes even both.

Now, something I do to enhance all that is to whisper in various tones about what I could do, or what I want to do, or what might happen if I "make a mistake" and that is often enough to get them to loose it right there.

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 2:49:25 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		What many people call breath play is actually blood-flow play. This is a clear application of RACK. The keys here are, in my opinion, informed consent and proper training. Doing it for the first time during sex by saying, "Choke me...harder..." isn't the best of ideas.

Master Fire


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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 4:08:51 PM   
SlaveIndigochild


Posts: 272
Status: offline
quote:

http://members.aol.com/Oldrope/breath.htm

Thank you angelika for this.
i love breath play. My master is the first to have a level of competence which i feel inherently safe with. The first thing He did when we first met was to place his hand around the back of my neck and exert pressure on certain pressure points.
i've had His hand on my windpipe, i've had rope around my neck to near asphyxiation. i've had my mouth smothered and my nose held closed and been 'fed' by His breathing alone. i've had total submersion.
It is all risky.
Interestingly sometimes it's a turn on for me as a sensation. And sometimes it takes me by surprise. But what is always always a turn on is the enforced submission.
It is risky. But life itself is risky: crossing a road, driving a car, having money in a bank saving's account (!).


< Message edited by SlaveIndigochild -- 10/9/2008 4:09:38 PM >

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/9/2008 6:17:26 PM   
Subductrssss


Posts: 97
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline 		Wow, thank Y/you all for the wonderful answers and information and I will have to look more closely into this, I am somewhat of a dare it all but after my recent attempt to be 20 again and climb a fence resulting in a shattered ankle I am looking at things "a bit different" (grins)
 
Now neck biting? Hmmmmm  that could be interesting (BIG GRIN)
 
Any pro's or con's on this?

_____________________________

Subductrssss

The reality of the other person lies not in what he reveals to you but in what he cannot reveal to you. Therefore, if you would understand him, listen not to what he says but rather to what he does not say.
Kahlil Gibran

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/14/2008 12:41:30 PM   
masterdstar


Posts: 160
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		BP is very common and the SSC crowd are scared...you might try speaking directly with ones who have played this way with the Person you are looking to play with, if not ask a bazillion questions...I prefer that from a chicken-hawk rather than being put off; it will help her relax into the play which is important for both sides.

Enjoy your wonder-filled day

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/14/2008 1:24:11 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		I'm a hand over mouth girl when I'm on top.  And I likes that.

When I'm on bottom, hand over mouth, or pressure on the neck works for me.

A few weekends ago, I did breath sharing for the first time (you have to find someone you're comfortable kissing to do this, and that's been a really short list to date) and that was yum too.

But, yes, if you're going to do breath play, make sure you know what you're going to be doing.  And some handy CPR etc for if seizures and things occur.

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/14/2008 2:12:37 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline 		Subductrsss,
Although my sub and I practice breath play, it is not in a "hands around the throat manner". Part of the fun for him is his ability to thrash around, as if he is really being smothered. However, when it is time to seriously stop, he uses his finger to tap me. My cue to stop squeezing. It is at this time that the Dominant must pay close attention to their submissive's movements and sounds (If any), which they should be doing anyway, but playing with breath, fire, knife ect..is especially crucial for a Dominant to pay attention. If I feel that he is pushing the envelope, *I* will stop, because I know how far he can go and I won't allow him to push himself to hard.

quote:

 But I am not sure on my side on how safe I am or can be, it seems like sometimes I seek to push it to the edge but I am not looking to pass out nor to pass on (if you know what I mean). 

 
I do know what you mean. Communication with your Dominant is so important regarding this. You may be the one who has to put a stop to it, as a reluctant Dominant may be an inexperienced one. He may not know how far he can go, but you do. If you are afraid of how far you push it, make sure he is aware of this. Make sure he understands that you may not want to stop, and at that time, it is up to him to not allow you to continue.
 
I wish you luck on your search and here's to hoping you will find someone who will share your love of your kink.
 



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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/14/2008 3:23:31 PM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		I think it's a level with streaking on a freeway wearing a butt plug and a blindfold.
But hey!

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/14/2008 11:27:39 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		The best information I ever found about breath play was in a demo run by DK of the Leather Family  .... go to www.leatherfamily.co.uk and flip through their notes on the subject there .... brilliant.

Breath play is stupid, dangerous, it places untold responsibility on the Top and can kill you days after you have played.

I adore breath play, being choked until I hit the floor is an incredible turn on, I am also an asthmatic. I am asking something decidedly edgy of my Tops when I ask them to do breath play with me ... because I am asking them if they would be OK in perhaps murdering me.

Its stupid and dangerous ... never *EVER* forget that.

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/15/2008 8:18:05 PM   
JavamanTN


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah breath play is dangerous, reckless and arguably stupid.
But, arguably it's less stupid than:

bare backing
pouring poppers into a gas mask filter and breathing them all night
free climbing
splitting lanes on a motorcycle in traffic

I'm not the safety police. I enjoy breath play, it's not a cornerstone of my play but it's delightfully intense with the right partner. I also believe it is very common, more than half the bottom types I know express an interest in it. If you want to approach BP with someone who is not familiar with it, discuss it a lot. Mentoring is good, but only as good as the mentor, so choose carefully.

Your millage may vary, etc...
~Daniel

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/15/2008 8:22:29 PM   
DarkVictory


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

The best information I ever found about breath play was in a demo run by DK of the Leather Family  .... go to www.leatherfamily.co.uk and flip through their notes on the subject there .... brilliant.

Breath play is stupid, dangerous, it places untold responsibility on the Top and can kill you days after you have played.

I adore breath play, being choked until I hit the floor is an incredible turn on, I am also an asthmatic. I am asking something decidedly edgy of my Tops when I ask them to do breath play with me ... because I am asking them if they would be OK in perhaps murdering me.

Its stupid and dangerous ... never *EVER* forget that.


Well, more like manslaughter or involuntary homicide than murder.

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RE: Breathe play questions and thoughts - 10/15/2008 8:32:21 PM   
funnelgag


Posts: 31
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline 		it's fun til someone loses an eye.

(in reply to DarkVictory)
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