overpowered or empowered? (Full Version)

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sravaka -> overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 12:46:52 PM)

This question comes out of a conversation I had with a dominant type quite a while ago.  He suggested that a dominant's "job" is to create a safe space in which a submissive wants to reveal herself rather than to coerce things from her.  "I don't overpower you, I empower you and if you are a "true" submissive, you'll respond submissively when I've made you feel safe enough,"  or words to the effect.

Leaving the "true" submissive business aside....   I found this formulation rather dissatisfying.  I don't deny that a feeling of safety is key (for me at least) and that much of the work of creating that safe space ends up falling to the dominant.. or that wanting to reveal yourself without being coerced is the least you can do.  I also don't deny that there might be some feeling of "empowerment" in having a safe space to express and do things that otherwise get little air time.   But I also couldn't imagine feeling submissive without in some way or other feeling overpowered as well.   Not necessarily via brute force (physical or otherwise)-- it could easily be something quiet or subtle, but nonetheless... compelling, in various senses of the term.

So, I wonder how this looks to others.  Submissives, do you need to feel overpowered?  And what makes you feel that way?  Do you seek a feeling of empowerment at the same time?  Dominants, do you seek to overpower, or empower, or both, or neither, and how is it accomplished?  Or are you in no more nor less than the business of creating safe spaces that cause submissive women to fall randomly at your feet?

Grateful for any/all thoughts.




celticlord2112 -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 12:56:41 PM)

quote:

Dominants, do you seek to overpower, or empower, or both, or neither, and how is it accomplished? Or are you in no more nor less than the business of creating safe spaces that cause submissive women to fall randomly at your feet?

I seek to rule.  I seek to rule well.

I do not "overpower" nor do I "empower".  Rather, I articulate my vision of how my house should be maintained, and where my slave belongs  within that vision.  When she chose to surrender herself to me she accepted my vision and my judgment.

I desire to rule.  My slave desires to be ruled. 



NorthernGent -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 1:18:08 PM)

For me, it's a case of: "do not walk on the grass", rather than: "you may walk on the grass". In other words, be my guest outside of the ten commandments. I want testing, challenging and input: these are best served through empowerment. Plus, if you care for someone, it follows you'll want to help with her anxieties, and this in itself will effect empowerment.

Overpower? That comes into play when she walks on the grass.



chamberqueen -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 1:28:36 PM)

I do not feel overpowered in my relationship.  I feel an overpowering urge to please, but while I am cognizant of the fact that I could receive discipline I do not fear it.  I am forced to do nothing - if I ever wanted to say no I know I have the option of walking out the door.

My needing to serve comes from within.  My Master rewards me with appreciation.  While he may sternly tell me to do we both know that my willingness to do whatever he wants is because a strong trust has been built between us.  I have gone far beyond my preconceived "limits" in order to be pleasing to him, but it is because I have learned that he is always watching over me and will allow no harm to come to me - either physically or emotionally.

Over time he has empowered me with special privileges given to no one else.  I cherish those.  I come out of a background of abuse and I serve much better based on rewards than on fear.  I do not serve to "earn" a reward; rather they are given to me as my Master chooses and I fully appreciate each and every one. 

This is another area that falls under "to each his own".  The deep trust and reward cycle works very well for me, and I give my all.  Someone else may love feeling overpowered.  The important part is that the top and bottom are in agreement as to the relationship dynamic.



IvyMorgan -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 2:39:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

This question comes out of a conversation I had with a dominant type quite a while ago.  He suggested that a dominant's "job" is to create a safe space in which a submissive wants to reveal herself rather than to coerce things from her.  "I don't overpower you, I empower you and if you are a "true" submissive, you'll respond submissively when I've made you feel safe enough,"  or words to the effect.

<snip>

So, I wonder how this looks to others.  Submissives, do you need to feel overpowered?  And what makes you feel that way?  Do you seek a feeling of empowerment at the same time?  <snip>
Grateful for any/all thoughts.


I guess, I want to feel overpowered, mostly physically but also "emotionally" cowed.  Then I feel "comfortable" for the play stuff.  (As long as I know you know what you're doing :P)  But, the submission is a whole other thing, and all about the creation of a safe space to let me tuck into, I don't trust easily, I have issues, when I trust you, you can do anything to me, but, chances are, I'm not going to trust you.



SimplyMichael -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 2:52:54 PM)

This is one of those core things that helps create chemistry, it is that magic blend of knuckle dragging neanderthal, white night, rouge and gentleman.  Knowing when to bend the little slut over and use her holes till  you are done and when to gently slide your hand under her chin and lift it for a soft kiss, or perhaps even draw her a bubble bath after a long fucked up day is what makes or breaks a relationship.  Someone like Aileen probably prefers more of the bending over to the soft kisses, some might want very little to do with just being used.

That said, creating a safe place for whatever is wounded/delicate or sensitive is a pretty core ingredient.  That might be an emotional safe place or perhaps a financial one,  and it is going to vary widely. 



littlewonder -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 2:54:49 PM)

I don't seek someone to empower or overpower me. I simply seek someone who I feel a chemistry and compatibility with on a human level...nothing more, nothing less.

The Dom's only job is what the two agree for it to be and vice versa.

The only person who can make me feel empowered is myself. That's something that comes from inside yourself.

I like to feel overpowered by my partner but it's not something that is a requirement..but it is nice.



leadership527 -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 3:49:07 PM)

Jeff's Answer (d)
There are layers and layers. At the lowest layers of reality... the real underlying core of our marriage, I have no interest in taking anything from my wife that is not freely offered. There is no "overpower". I make a safe space and then nurture her submission and lo, it flourishes. However, I also recognize that there are times when the appearance of being overpowered works for her. Sometimes, the appearance of overpowering her works for me. Fulfilling both of our fantasies is an important part of having a rich, vibrant love affair. I have no problems with it... so long as all parties remember that this is only a mirage overlaying the true foundation of our relationship. She knows that she could change the rules without penalty. If she wanted to stop submitting entirely or, perhaps, put some boundaries on that submission, then I am fine with that. Knowing this, there is no actual "overpower" -- she is continuously consenting.

Carol's Answer (s)
In the bedroom, there are times where being overpowered really really works, but I don't need it. I feel neither empowered nor overpowered. Sometimes I feel cornered. But all the time, I feel that it's in my best interests. Overall, being his doesn't affect me emotionally in a very strong way. I think his leadership is good. I think he's taking our marriage in good places. And, frankly, a lot of the time I'm just as happy to not have to make the decisions. For me, it's no more than that.



sailorfrank -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 5:48:48 PM)

    Hmmm good question.   I myself overpower my slave to in turn to empower her.   Mostly if she makes decisions that may harm her health or attitude then I must overpower that.  In our training I want her to become empowered and at times I can only do that by "overpowering" her.

  But she is a very good slave as well as very smart so I try not to overpower her much at all.  I am working to improve her thru training as well as advice in everyday matters!

  Sometimes you must do both to achieve your goals as well as others too!



mypassion -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 6:13:25 PM)

Ultimately I am always the one who chooses to submit. It is never taken from me. I simply must trust you enough to let you see that part of me.

Having said that.... I do love it when a Dom just takes what they want from me without asking for it. Thats just sexy. But through it all its understood that submission is a choice and I can always choose not to submit.



silkncarol -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 6:28:03 PM)

What Michael said..........   I like a blend of both...being taken and used....and the softer tender side.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

This is one of those core things that helps create chemistry, it is that magic blend of knuckle dragging neanderthal, white night, rouge and gentleman.  Knowing when to bend the little slut over and use her holes till  you are done and when to gently slide your hand under her chin and lift it for a soft kiss, or perhaps even draw her a bubble bath after a long fucked up day is what makes or breaks a relationship.  Someone like Aileen probably prefers more of the bending over to the soft kisses, some might want very little to do with just being used.

That said, creating a safe place for whatever is wounded/delicate or sensitive is a pretty core ingredient.  That might be an emotional safe place or perhaps a financial one,  and it is going to vary widely. 



DesFIP -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 6:32:25 PM)

I need both. Now in general terms, some nutjob kidnapping me from the streets is a definite no no even though it is overpowering me. So the safe area has to come first, in order for me to feel okay when he overpowers me, to feel that I don't need to fight him. But I don't submit in a vacuum, I need to feel his dominance in order to submit.

Obviously not every moment of every day, but as someone said in another thread, I need my chain yanked occasionally in order to get in touch with my submissiveness. Him coming up behind me while I'm getting stuff out to cook, putting a forearm around my throat and yanking me up against his body is enough to keep me humming all night. If he doesn't overwhelm me occasionally, I will not feel or act as submissive.

If like me, you need this and you're with a dom who prefers not to act this way, then some communication is in order. Otherwise you'll soon begin to think you just aren't compatible, and you'll be right.



QandA -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 6:32:59 PM)

For me, it's being shown that I could be overpowered that I find the most appealing. 

I'm not the type to struggle if I don't like what's happening... mostly I just shut down and do my best to ignore/endure unpleasant things.  I also can't think of a time when I wouldn't make myself accessible to my Sir, even if I wasn't exactly in the mood.  For that reason, fighting against Q and having him actually overpower me just seems foreign to me.

There are times, however, when I find it absolutely delicious to be held my by wrists, or my neck.  Feeling his body atop mine and hearing him whisper into my ear that I belong to him and he can do whatever he wants to me.   MMmmmmm.... yummy.

If he were to use his physical strength in a way that was truly intimidating, or if he got physical with me while he was angry, then I think that a lot of the trust that's been built up between us would be lost.

Empowerment comes from a variety of factors.  Yes, my Sir does all he can to create a safe environment for me.  That means very little, though, if I don't act on it.  My own actions make me a strong woman, he simply makes that a bit easier for me.

lil Aidan



slaveluci -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 7:29:09 PM)

Reading the OP immediately reminded me of this sig line from a wise poster around these parts (kc692)[:)]:

"Anyone can overpower; not many can INSPIRE....."
 
I couldn't agree more................luci



Aileen1968 -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 8:14:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Someone like Aileen probably prefers more of the bending over to the soft kisses, some might want very little to do with just being used.


I would have only wanted the bending over a few years ago.  Now I don't mind the bending over with a little kiss at the end.  It lets me know that I did good.  I've gotten soft in my old age.  [:)] 



Rumtiger -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/11/2008 11:14:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
I've gotten soft in my old age.  [:)] 


Tsk, you know, you keep calling yourself old and it's going to ruin the whole crush thing for me. 

As for the OP, I choose to submit for that very reason, its my choice to do so, my whim, my desire, my perogative. So in that sense I guess it's more a form of self-empowerment than anything else. The negative to this is that since I was doing it all on my own it basically turned into me forcing myself to be with a couple mistresses who really werent good for me at all until I learned my lesson and instead started being a little bit more discerning in looking for someone.

ah shit...I responded to a post in a polite and succinct manner...does this mean i'm back or something?



Aileen1968 -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/12/2008 4:23:18 AM)

Heh Rum...it means that you're getting soft and old too... [sm=jaw.gif]



VivaciousSub -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/12/2008 3:21:47 PM)

I like this question, a lot. I had been thinking about this for some time, but I didn't have the skill to phrase it as you did.

I don't need to feel overpowered per se but I absolutely have to have the demonstration of solid authority. Once I feel that there's rules, structure and boundaries, I feel much more free within those walls because I've been given a method to channel my energies rather than burning them by attempting to run in 12 directions at once. I wouldn't call what I feel "empowerment" at all - I don't have any more power than what I've been given, but I do feel "directed", for lack of a better word.



sravaka -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/12/2008 5:24:07 PM)

Many thanks to everyone who replied!  Reading through these responses has helped me a great deal to clarify my own thinking.

Vivacious-- I think my feeling is quite close to yours...  I'm also very fond of the word "channeled" to describe what I feel when things are working, for what it's worth.  It's something very peaceful and grounding-- energies flowing along nicely in the riverbeds, turning waterwheels and whatnot, instead of spilling out unproductively all over the place. 

The sexual side of "overpowered" came up a lot in the responses so far... and as much as I love that sort of thing and wouldn't want to be without it...  somewhere in my mushy thinking I was trying to get at something deeper in the structure of a relationship.  Maybe I need a word like "out-powered," parallel to "outdone"-- I don't generally feel submissive from my core unless I'm confronted with strength, force of will, acuity/intelligence... or some other ineffable thing that's in some sense bigger than me. 

Maybe "authority" rather than power is central to it? 




sravaka -> RE: overpowered or empowered? (10/12/2008 5:31:50 PM)

quote:

"Anyone can overpower; not many can INSPIRE....."

I couldn't agree more................luci


Wonderfully put.  Thank you. :-)



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