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slave contracts - 10/12/2008 11:46:23 PM   
shewhoserves


Posts: 110
Joined: 9/17/2008
Status: offline 		 Is there such a thing as a "legal" slave contract????  what happens if the slave does not hold up his/her end of this contract? gets sued? goes to jail? 
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RE: slave contracts - 10/12/2008 11:52:27 PM   
moonvine


Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		No and nothing:)


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RE: slave contracts - 10/12/2008 11:52:59 PM   
WestBaySlave


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline 		     Slavery is illegal, so any slave contract is by default illegal. So no, there is no such thing as a legally binding slave contract.

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RE: slave contracts - 10/12/2008 11:56:35 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shewhoserves

Is there such a thing as a "legal" slave contract????  what happens if the slave does not hold up his/her end of this contract? gets sued? goes to jail? 


Yeah right...Slave contracts are right up there with a sheet of tp with the tp having more value.its sorta of a ritual that some like to use..be well..Bounty

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 12:16:25 AM   
NormalOutside


Posts: 622
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline 		You should read the 1400 threads below this one where the exact question was asked.  There's a good chance one of them contains the reply you're looking for.

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 5:37:04 AM   
SultryMomma


Posts: 48
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline 		To answer your questions.....No.

SM
(Kris)

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 5:47:26 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I detest the term "slave contract" because... as others have said before... it's not a legal contract.  No point in calling it what it clearly is not.  In my opinion BDSM does far too much of that already, and it just serves to portray us as a bunch of folks engaged in ritualized Dungeons & Dragons... but that's another post.
 
On the other hand, I'm all for any tool (by any name) that helps partners develop a list of realistic expectations for each other, and responsibilities for themselves.  So just because it has no legal value, does not mean that a slave contract (gag) has no value at all.
 
John

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 6:41:12 AM   
HandSolo


Posts: 323
Joined: 11/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shewhoserves

Is there such a thing as a "legal" slave contract???? 


As stated already, absolutely not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shewhoserves

what happens if the slave does not hold up his/her end of this contract? gets sued? goes to jail? 


Anybody can sue anybody for any reason, it doesn't mean they can win a case. However, if one testified in court about performing the master's half of a slave contract, he could probably manage to get himself charged with assault and battery, aggravated assault, mayhem, false imprisonment, and maybe aggravated rape.


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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 7:06:57 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Using the words ‘slave contract’, the answer to your question is NO…there is no legal standing for such a contract.

HOWEVER…there are contracts between 2 or more people that can be legally binding; it depends on what the contract covers.

My late husband and I, when we first started our relationship; DID have a contract between us that would have stood up in court; it was legally binding. Of course, it was not called a slave contract either lol.

It covered basics like…all my assets, going into the relationship ( any money, property, etc ) became his

I could not place any legal rights on his assets ( sort of like a pre-nup )…it stated clearly that I came into the relationship with nothing, and if I left, I left with nothing; giving no consideration to how many years we were together.

I also gave up all maternal rights to any child that was conceived between us.

After we were married, it was modified to state that in the event of his death; I was to retain legal guardianship of all minors; I was to be named executor and prime beneficiary in his will…but those were the only modifications that were ever made to our contract.

Just little things like that.

It’s also important to realize that we both spent a lot of time in the beginning of our relationship hammering out details; I went in knowing exactly what I was giving up and what I was receiving in return; I acknowledged and consented to everything.

edited to add:

Its important to remember that any kind of contract; legal or not, is only as binding as the word of the people who participate.

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 10/13/2008 7:08:00 AM >

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 7:09:48 AM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HandSolo

he could probably manage to get himself charged with assault and battery, aggravated assault, mayhem, false imprisonment, and maybe aggravated rape.



I love it when you talk dirty like that.

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 7:50:55 AM   
MsAuthoritarian


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/14/2008
Status: offline 		So I am thinking we should start a new buzz to replace "slave contract" with "relationship agreement". From now on when the topic comes up just tell them that the board (whoever the hell that is) changed it to be more accurate and politically correct. Hell, SM went to Leather then to BDSM then to WIIWD (or something like that) and now it has apparently morphed into ........................................"the lifestyle" (insert gagging sound here) so why not change this too?
 
~Ms

< Message edited by MsAuthoritarian -- 10/13/2008 7:52:23 AM >

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 7:52:01 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I detest the term "slave contract" because... as others have said before... it's not a legal contract.  No point in calling it what it clearly is not.  In my opinion BDSM does far too much of that already, and it just serves to portray us as a bunch of folks engaged in ritualized Dungeons & Dragons... but that's another post.

On the other hand, I'm all for any tool (by any name) that helps partners develop a list of realistic expectations for each other, and responsibilities for themselves.  So just because it has no legal value, does not mean that a slave contract (gag) has no value at all.

John


I like the phrase "Agreement to Participate", and "Service Bond Agreement". Like the word 'slavery', which, for me, is a null, meaningless word in terms of being an accurate representation of the dynamic in a BDSM relationship because where there is consent, at any level, there cannot be 'slavery' (which, to me, is a non-consensual state where a human is -owned-, with no choice in the matter), the word "contract" implies a legally binding commitment, which is not feasible (and which is not particularly -desireable-, IMO, since what I am seeking requires that the other party participating actually wants to be there -- so if they do not want to participate, I have no intention of forcing them to remain) or enforceable under the law in any modern nation.

What can be done to enforce one of these contracts? Realistically, nothing. The foundation of the agreement is that both parties agree that one party will consider hirself bound into service to the other. The only enforcement that can take place under this type of agreement, should the serving party fail to meet the terms of the agreement is the same recourse given to an employer, when an employee fails to produce according to hir employment agreement -- terminate the relationship. If one party wishes to terminate and the other does not, oh well... tough cookies. There is no -legal- method for requiring a servant (slave, for the folks who insist on using that term) abide by the terms of the agreement -- willingness to honor the promise is the only bond that exists.

Again, think of this in terms of an 'employment agreement'... the "Master" 'hires' a 'slave' to serve hir. The 'slave' agrees, and then later decides to no longer provide adequate service. A PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) may be instituted, if both parties believe it would be helpful to clarify the duties (discipline/punishment), but in the end, if the 'employee' (slave) chooses to renege, the only recourse is to fire said 'employee'.

Calla Firestorm


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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 8:08:48 AM   
MsAuthoritarian


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
Like the word 'slavery', which, for me, is a null, meaningless word in terms of being an accurate representation of the dynamic in a BDSM relationship because where there is consent, at any level, there cannot be 'slavery' (which, to me, is a non-consensual state where a human is -owned-, with no choice in the matter),
Calla Firestorm

 
Calla Firestorm,
I know that it is easy to look in a mainstream dictionary to find the definitions of words; however, these words are NOT being used in the same manner.
"Context is key"!
 
Master
Mistress
Slave
Slut
Submissive
Whore
Top
Bottom
and the list goes on.
 
All of these words are used within mainstream society and within SM/Leather/BDSM/...; however, going to a mainstream dictionary to look for the definitions is a mistake because our definitions are not in a mainstream dictionary, period. It is like going to a doctor to find out how to change the oil in your car, not going to work.
 
Getting caught up on the definitions provided within any mainstream dictionary causes more confusion than clarity.
 
~Ms

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 8:15:32 AM   
shewhoserves


Posts: 110
Joined: 9/17/2008
Status: offline 		i kinda figured there was no such thing as a 'legal' contract, thank You for all the replys

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 8:25:34 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsAuthoritarian

Calla Firestorm,
I know that it is easy to look in a mainstream dictionary to find the definitions of words; however, these words are NOT being used in the same manner.
"Context is key"!


Getting caught up on the definitions provided within any mainstream dictionary causes more confusion than clarity.

~Ms



Where did I ever say anything about a dictionary? I described -my- definition of 'slavery', and said that -for me- the word is a null concept for the dynamic that I practice and explained -why-. I feel that the terminology I use is more accurate, and less prone to be misunderstood by the individuals who enter into relationships -with me-.

Someone on one of the other posts used a phrase that I think describes me pretty well -- "Terminology fetishist". I prefer the words/phrases that I use to be as accurate as possible, by -my- terms. I use "servant" and "bond-servant" to indicated the roles that might fit the terminology someone else would call 'submissive' or 'slave'. To me, these are a more accurate representation of the dynamic which I and mine express.

CFB

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/13/2008 8:26:03 AM >

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 8:31:19 AM   
MsAuthoritarian


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/14/2008
Status: offline 		Ahh ok well your definition of slavery reflected the dictionary definition to a great degree. If you just came up with that definition out of thin air, all on your own and it had nothing to do with the dictionary definition, I do apologize. Words are fasinating to me as well so I do understand.
 
~Ms

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RE: slave contracts - 10/13/2008 10:34:05 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		I hope I can explain this in a way that makes sense. Of course the definition of 'slavery' that I embrace didn't come out of thin air... reinforced as it is through millenia of human practices ... Egyptians, Greeks, Sumerians, African tribal chieftains, Native American tribes, White Southern Landowners, Romans, Irish Landlords, modern slavers -- the word has a connotation, not just through dictionary definitions, but through historical useage that I find does not adequately represent the dynamic of a state of -consensual- servitude... and some of the other words with historical use for consensual servitude - like priest, acolyte, novitiate - have religious connotations that also make them feel... incomplete/inappropriate for the type of dynamic I am advertising.

You can call a Sno-Cone "ice cream"... but it loses something in the translation, even though both ice cream and a snow-cone are sweet and cold. Even more subtle, you can compare ice-cream and gelato... very, very close... but not the same thing. It all depends on how important the subtleties are to a person. To me, they're -very- important, and so I choose language that is equally reflective of the subtleties that are important to me, and I choose to be an annoying b*tch and retain the integrity of being -very- clear about what I'm talking about, even in discussions where my specificity probably annoys the crud out of people who really don't care what word they use, as long as the general idea is out there.

Calla Firestorm


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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