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new things episode 2 - 8/3/2004 9:12:12 PM

cheeba0228

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline

For those who havent followed this you can check out the thread New things in my life. Well I had my discussion with the woman that is discussed in the earlier threads and this is the update to that series. When we started talking she asked if I would like her to continue speaking as a sub or if I'd prefer her to speak as an equal. i thought for a second and told her to speak as though she is a sub. She replied with Yes Master. Now my reason for my decision is this. With her obeying my commands I felt as though she had no power to lie to me and though I would only get the truth from her. I'm not sure if thats true or not but its how I prefered it. We talked about quite a few things, and basically as I see it she still loves her husband but from what he used to be to what he is now she just feels unattached to him, and unattracted to him on a physical level. So I serve as her fantasy just as she serves as my plaything I guess is the best way for me to put it. She understood about my wanting to find someone who could be a more permanant replacement, even offered to help me find one. I found out that her hubby and her have been taking separate vacations for a few years now and was wondering if she could stay with me while he was away. I told her i didnt mind so long as she didnt think that it was a first step to moving in or that it was the beginning of love. She laughed and told me it had nothing to do with love just to do with lust. Sounded good to me. As the night progressed she was following my commands until I told her to do one specific act. Which I shall hold aside because I dont think what act it was is important. But she had done it before many times, but she said no this time. So now my question is this....having worked everything out and all the questions that I had, should I be upset over this refusal or should I try to understand her free will more? I know I cannot force her to do anything legally, however i do not wish to tolerate any disobedience? What would some of you do in this situation, I dont want to send her away but I want to let it be clearly known that this type of behavior will not be tolerated.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!

Post #: 1

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/3/2004 11:40:56 PM

topcat

Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline

quote:

As the night progressed she was following my commands until I told her to do one specific act. Which I shall hold aside because I dont think what act it was is important. But she had done it before many times, but she said no this time. So now my question is this....having worked everything out and all the questions that I had, should I be upset over this refusal or should I try to understand her free will more?

Cheeba-

If it were me (and mind you, I screw up as much as the rest of the world), given that she had invoked a dynamic wherein she was the submissive, I would have pushed. Pushed hard, right up to safewording.

It seems to me that she is testing you- her first was to put it out there, to ask how you wanted to interact. Following that, if this an act she has engaged in with you in the past, I can only see it as her wanting to see if you'd take it when she balked.

These are hazardous waters you're sailing. The best I can advise is to make your course, and make it so, or turn and find kinder seas.

I'd bet that one of the things that she held her husband at fualt for was not being forceful or dominant or some such with her. If so, she answered your question.

But bear this in mind... I f her husband has failed at the challenges she presents- it could be a rigged game.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 2

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 12:13:53 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Youve experianced the differances in dynamics from submissives and slaves.
Topcats words were correct. Then would of been the tiime to push to the safeword.

[ a submissive chooses by the moment by the minuite
by the hour by the day by the week by the month by
the year when and how and who and where they will
choose to serve a Dominant daily to fullfill their selfs
or to not.

a slave chooses to serve once forever
to fullfill the Dominants needs.They a person held
concensually in servitude as the chattel of a
another person. one that is completely servient
to a Dominating influence. a device
(as in a posession) that is directly
responsive to anothers needs completly.

if you are a person whom is suplicant and in order
for you to feel suplicant you make choices in what
you will give then you are submitting but if you
choose to let another say what you will give you
are a slave

now this is My take on those into suplication ]
JMO

(in reply to topcat)

Post #: 3

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 6:55:28 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

OK. The following only applies if you want to train a slave. If you are playing with a submissive, I cannot tell you how to do that, because I don't know.

The sound of a slamming door does wonders. "Collect your things. I am finished with you for tonight. You may return when and only when you are ready to be obedient". Say it and mean it. You have no tests to pass and nothing to prove to her. You need not succumb to being baited into behaving in any certain way. She is there to please you. When she fails to please you, it is time for her to go.

If she was a slave in your house the response would be similar. Close chains and a cold hard kitchen floor for the night gets the point across very well. You are master, she is slave. She will please you, or not.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/4/2004 7:09:28 AM >

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 4

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 7:13:28 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Oh My Jah
We agree
on sumthing!
~SMILES~

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 5

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 7:13:54 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I don't wish to just add to the post so I am asking this:

Is Your question aimed for Dominants to answer, or would You also like subs/slaves/bottoms thoughts?

Thanks for reading this

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 6

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 7:22:19 AM

MrThorns

Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

Again I have to say...."Amen"

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 7

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 7:25:16 AM

cheeba0228

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline

Great point and thanks for the advice.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!

(in reply to topcat)

Post #: 8

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 7:28:23 AM

cheeba0228

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline

I would prefer the thoughts of both. I'm trying to understand what she's thinking at the same time.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 9

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 7:42:14 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

*smiles*... well this is just from a personal view...

If a Dominant I was submitting to...(whether play or longerterm relationship) commanded a specific which I was unable to obey then I would not simply say 'no'... but ask if it is something that we could discuss later... and ask forgiveness...(ideally... such a thing would have been already discussed before hand tho)

If it was something we had already done before... or that I was known to have done before and was just refusing... I would be surprised (even concerned)if the Dominant didnt want a damn good reason why, and just accept the 'no'.

As topcat has already stated... she could be testing You...(although I have never figured out the reasons why bottoms do that, as I would usually ask, unless its in the form of some 'brat play'... but thats personal choices)... and He is totally correct (if I am reading His analagy right... forgive me if i am not!)...in that if this isnt what You desire as a Top... then the need to *put ones foot down firmly*... It could be that she's just used to 'getting her own way' and needs to unlearn(isnt that another thread?..lol) that and be taught the lessons You require.

(jmho)

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 10

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 7:42:30 AM

cheeba0228

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline

Well then let me ask you this then. When is a safeword used in earnest and what would you do if a sub used a safeword just to stop how you were treating her? if she uses safeword just to stop the activity being used not to actually stop something that she felt was harmful, doesnt that kind of kill the meaning of the safeword? Isnt that outside the scope of what its there for? And if you know its being used as such what do you do? I'm not sure what you can do? I mean you still under all circumstances have to respect the safeword thats the whole point of having it is to under any circumstances stop what you are doing because it may be potentially dangerous? The cold hard floor would work magically if it actually carried a threat but like I said she is not live in so I cant right now best I could do is send her home as banishment. I'm looking for more creative ways to punish with out having to send her on her way. I want to make it clear that this type of activity both declining to perform, and using the safeword incorrectly will not be tolerated. FYI what I did was made her take a very very cold shower and then drip dry standing on a towel in a room that has 2 window air conditioners on high with doors closed. When I re-entered the room she was still standing but shivering and teeth chattering. I asked if she was tired of standing and she replied Yes Master. So i told her to sit and then left the room again. Came back 10 minutes later and she was extremely cold to the touch. I asked if she was sorry for her words and actions and she replied "very Sorry to have upset you Master" So I threw a blanket around her and took her back out and the rest of the night proceeded in normal Kink fashion. At that tie she did the activity in question without protest. So now thats where I am. I meet with her again tomorrow so any input on other means of enforcing this, and any thoughts on when is a safe word being misused will be greatly appreciated.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 11

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 7:48:14 AM

cheeba0228

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline

thank you for your words, From the situation I dont know if she was trying to get punished, or was truely not wanting to do something, or what was going on I just know that when i tried to force the situation she used the safeword and that I felt was an abuse of the safewords power. I did "put my foot down" at least what I think is firmly and creative you can catch that in my newest post.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 12

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 8:01:13 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

For what its worth... after reading Your last post... persoanlly I think as a top You upheld Your honour and showed her it was not something You would tollerate. And as Your bottom... I would hope she comes to You with humility and humbleness and even request You discuss with her what went wrong calmly and clearly. If she doesnt wish to discuss her behaviour... or she does the same thing again then that (IMO)would be alot more serious. To Angel, that would imply she either hasnt understood the lesson or she is trying to be punished... both are obviously not acceptable to You (as I am reading?)and would need an extreme firm handling.

(*but I could be wrong, just a personal view)

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 13

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 8:02:06 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

A safe word is a control mechanism. If you give her one, it is hers to use as she sees fit. You can certainly discuss the fact that you didn't think the use of the safeword was appropriate, but the bottom line is that using the safe word, if she has one, is her perrogative. Many folks would bristle a bit at the notion that you would punish her for invoking the safe word. Beyond that, I'm going to have to defer to those who are more practiced in the use of safe words than I am. I don't use them. The subculture that I learned in does not accord slaves safe words.

If you don't want to tolerate her behavior, then don't, is my best advice to you. Understand that being "punished" is as likely as not the response that she wanted from you when she said "no". For some folks, those kinds of subtle manipulations are fine, and provide another pretense for more kinky play. If you are in that camp, and it adds to your enjoyment, I would be the last one to rain on your parade. Since I don't engage in that kind of play, I'll have to let others explain to you how it is supposed to go.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/4/2004 8:58:18 AM >

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 14

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 8:16:56 AM

ScorpioMaster

Posts: 146
Joined: 3/30/2004
Status: offline

I would ask her why for her reason could be very understandable. I am the kind of guy who would like to know and understand her reasoning. I am able to sometimes explain why her reason has no foundation of concern or worry. The more you have open communication the better you are able to understand her. I know some subs would have a fear in doing the act or that there is a direct connection with her hubby and she learned to hate because it remind her of him.

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 15

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 8:21:23 AM

cheeba0228

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline

I use safewords and plan on discussing what exactly a safeword whould be used for, but it might be my mistake I thought we had that understanding already. It appears not. As a Dom where exactly does your ability to force something end and turn into a unwarranted forcing yourself on someone. I mean referring to another thread just because someone is a sub to you does not mean that rape isnt rape anymore.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 16

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 8:23:42 AM

cheeba0228

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline

I dont mind her asking for punishment, if she enjoys it so be it, if she thinks she has done something wrong and needs to be punished then I wish to reward her for telling me, I just think that if she is asking to be punished she is going about it the wrong way. And that is what I'm trying to correct here if that is the circumstance.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 17

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 8:26:11 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

nodding in agreement*

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 18

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/4/2004 8:36:12 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

As a Dom where exactly does your ability to force something end and turn into a unwarranted forcing yourself on someone.

A slave does what they do out of a desire within them to please. If you even approach forcing something on them, you are doing it wrong. As their master, you teach them to please you, and you build within them the desire to do so. In the scenario that I gave you, where would there be even a hint of forcing something on the slave? I suppose she could stand on the porch after the door hit her in the ass and scream "Hard limit!!!", but she'd look a little funny doing so. She is just a slave who failed to please her master at that point, and on her way home. If she were punished thereafter for her behavior, it would probably be shortly after she begged her master to see enough value in her to trouble himself with her punishment.

Playing with a submissive is different. "Pushing limits" and lots of mutual give-and-take are highly valued. I can't even pretend to understand it as well as many here on this board who have done it for many years.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/4/2004 8:37:02 AM >

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 19

RE: new things episode 2 - 8/5/2004 3:09:36 PM

MJ5456

Posts: 1
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline

Even if she had performed this particular act before, I still think that her refusal deserves some discussion. Yes she did this act before on a different day, perhaps in a different state of mind. It is never "the same" everytime. Was it defiance, was it fear, was it something else? I dont think you can make a decision about how to handle it until you understand it better.

Your relationship sounds fairly new to me, so I dont think you can jump to any conclusions about what it meant. Get to know her better.

Anne

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 20

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