Disrespect for the established structure (Full Version)

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Araven -> Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 2:01:53 AM)

So I've run into an issue lately that I wanted to share and get some insights, opinions, and thoughts on. After reading boijen's thread on toe stepping, I wanted to expand on it a little bit more:

In my relationship with my Mistress, when I accepted her collar, I accepted that there were previous relationships and boundaries that had to be followed and accepted. She has a husband, and I respect and admire him, and from the beginning wanted to be his friend and not step on his toes, or his own dynamic with her. I respected what she and he had, and think it is important for them to have their time, as well as the time that is given to me.

However, when my Mistress start to see new people, either for casual scenes, or looking longer term, lately, it seems as if people have a "me me me' attitude. There is no respect for the already established relationships, and its as if these people have a 'Im going to monopolize her time, energy, and effort". They completely disregard the fact that there are others. An example I would use is as the local dungeon, my Mistress and I never get enough time to play simply because there are people there who take up all her time, whether it be asking for their scenes, conversation, or a combination of all of the above. Combine this with the fact, that for some of these people, they are calling or texting my Mistress every 5 minutes of the day for some serious micromanagement.

For those of you in established relationships, when you are perusing potential members to add to your "family' so to speak,  do you have an individual relationship with them, or do you consider how they will fit into the 'family'? Do they meet your other submissives, partners, husbands, wives, ect? The lack of disrespect by some of these potential play partners for my Mistress astounds me. Its actually left us to question why we even go out anymore to the local dungeon.

How do you balance your desire to play with those whom you have a relationship with, along with the desire to play with some casually? What happens when the casual starts to interfer with the relationship?

Any thoughts, comments, or stories would be appreciated. Thanks!






ShiftedJewel -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 3:26:45 AM)

Well, first off... we don't do casual play so I really couldn't answer that part of it. But for potential life partners, yes, they meet and have to get along with the others here. I do insist on a individual relationship with them, but they still have to be part of the whole. I don't respond to selfish people that want to monopolize my time, none of us do. We are a family first and we do manage to find the time for our individual relationships.
 
Don't know if that helped or not.
 
Jewel




Madame4a -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 4:10:58 AM)

This is a really quick reply.. but it seems like your mistress should be putting limits around the others... but she is the one who gets to decide what takes up her time...

balancing more than one relationship can be very time consuming




stella41b -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 4:53:47 AM)

quote:



This is just a note suggesting everyone be aware and protect themselves from a mental condition which is thought to be contagious or transferable and is known as Lifestyle Syndrome. The incubation period is variable lasting from a few hours to several years. This syndrome tends to affect the spinal cord, nerve endings in the lower half of the body, it is considered psychosomatic, caused by adverse reactions to aural and visual stimuli. What appears to happen is a strengthening of sensory nerve endings around the anus and genitals of affected individuals which appear to severely affect functioning of the brain.

There is an unhealthy preoccupation with one aspect of personality, usually a desire to dominate or submit to other people, which is coupled with a preoccupation relating to sexual deviancy and perversions. This leads to impairment of many of the brain's functions, the symptoms of which include disorientation, dyslexia, illiteracy, a total loss of a sense of reality, problems with self-esteem and self-awareness, awareness of others, communication difficulties, difficulties in simple thought processes, and somewhat severe mental and emotional disturbances caused by delusions.

Sufferers of Lifestyle Syndrome are usually unaware that they suffer from such a condition, despite it being patently obvious to non-sufferers. They tend to believe that being kinky and sexually deviant makes them superhuman, special, 'chosen', and they quickly seek out and identify with other sufferers, forming communities among themselves, and they may also seek to spread the condition by passing it on to non-sufferers. Some may suffer from hallucinations, for example a male sufferer may come across a married female with partner who is unavailable, and perceive her to be a wanton bitch desperate to be fuckmeat.

Some female sufferers of this condition genuinely believe that men will hand over huge sums of money to complete strangers without expecting anything in return. Some women express a need to adopt the image of a glamorous transvestite and will even take photos of themselves tarted up and post them all over the Internet.

Usually there is a regressive personality disorder and the mental age is reduced to that of a 3 or 4 year old child. Attitudes return to those exhibited during potty training, some sufferers become extremely anally retentive (some wish to be anally retentive), others have oral fixations, and some get downright pissy for no reason. Just like regular toddlers, sufferers will have a need to 'dress up', to play, to collect toys, to play with others with these toys and even to show these toys off. Some will even take photos of their toys and themselves all dressed up and post them on various sites on the Internet.

Communication with others is sometimes impaired. This is due to a drastic shortening of the attention span. Communication in writing is reduced to little more than one or two sentences. Individual letters may be missing from words, especially vowels, so that words tnd 2 b wrtn as txtspk where u is taken to be you. If sufferers are refused, denied or don't get their own way there may be mood swings, hissy fits, temper tantrums etc. In such cases sufferers have been known to suck their thumbs, sit immobile with arms tightly folded, scowling, refusing to speak to anyone, laptops may be thrown across the room, some sufferers may throw themselves down on the floor, flailing their arms and legs about wildly, screaming, shouting obscenities, crying uncontrollably, shrieking at the tops of their voices, and a few have been known to poo their pants in protest.

Opinion is divided as to possible cures. Some suggest encouraging sufferers to rinse their heads under a tap of running water, others suggest a three by two plank of wood may provide the answer. Many believe that traditional discipline works, that sufferers should be subjected to a bare bottom spanking and sent to their rooms without any supper. However it is generally believed that encouraging sufferers to maintain a healthy perspective on life and their relations with others and to develop a sense of humour is the best solution.




The above comes from my journal.

I don't think it's disrespect for any established structure, but some sort of gross misunderstanding of the meaning of the 'alternative' in 'the alternative lifestyle' where common sense, common courtesy and consideration for others goes right out of the window.

How can someone ever claim to be a good submissive if they've got the interpersonal skills of a rhinocerous? But this is not just submissives and it's not just men, but goes right through society. This is what makes a first meeting or a first date out to be more like a job interview. It's that sense or feeling you get that some people are only interested in you if they can get something out of you or experience something with you. Who you are isn't that important. It is indeed all about them.

Common courtesy, consideration for others and respect come free of charge. Unfortunately not everyone can afford this.




MsStarlett -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 5:14:50 AM)

Aravan, you sound a lot like my West.  He keeps his coveted place because he IS respectful of my life, my husband, my family and my other friends.  He knows he is 'First among many', but 2nd to my spouse.  Any others that are brought in, will have to know and respect that they are 'below' him on the hierarchy chart.  Currently, all my others are on-line only, so it doesn't really matter, as they are not infringing on anyone's face time. However, they do ocationally tend to suck up a lot of my net time.

It's tough to be Poly.  The 'extras' tend to come and go frequently.  Sometimes the ones that 'got away' want to return... or at least reminise about the good times.  Others want to vie for a chance.  That's always hard on the ego of the current favorite.  You just have to work on a good mind set that you know you are special and hold a secure place in the life of your dominant. 

I was very proud of my West for enduring attending a convention with me.  I spent a great deal of my time 'visiting' with old friends.  Depending on the relationship between me and the friends, he was introduced as either my 'friend' or my 'boy'.  Some did give him that knowing smile and tease about how quickly I 'wear them out' or that I always did 'like young ones'.  Each did take some time visiting with me, then defered to the new favored pet.  But that's a long established routine with me.  I normally don't keep my pets for long.  Most of those 'friends' had their turns and were replaced as they found more commited relationships.  They will probably be very surprised if I return next year and still have West at my side... if HE doesn't find another woman before then.  [;)]






thetammyjo -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 6:32:19 AM)

I'm a bit confused on why your Mistress allows these people to disrespect her and her established family.

If these are just casual acquaintances, she should simply ignore them and if they ask why tell them that they are not respecting her needs to spend time with her family and sub.

If these are friends, she needs to sit them down, explain matters and establish boundaries then maintain them.

If these are play partners they need to be told to shape up and support the entire household/family or they will be dismissed.




OneMoreWaste -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 6:41:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
The above comes from my journal.


*applause*

As for the OP- it sounds from your post as though your Mistress has more or less a hoard of hangers-on, in which case, it's hard to blame any one of them. They all want a small portion of her time, the problem is that collectively, they take away from what you would like to have as your time with her. The only person who can actually resolve this issue is your Mistress, and it sounds as thouhg you need to talk with her about your differing expectations for the amount of attention she gives you.

Honestly, I can't conceive how poly people find the time!




Venatrix -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 7:03:13 AM)

If she's in control of the relationship, then these boundaries are fine with her.  You will have to accept them or move on to someone else.  If she's not in control of the relationship, that is, as they say, a different kettle of fish and one that I won't go into here.




khem -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 7:06:54 AM)

I think it's up to your Mistress to establish the boundaries for the other partners in the relationship.  If you feel like she's just not taking your feeling into account in a deliberate way, she might not be the best match for you.  If she's not aware of this, I'd say it's probably your responsibility to at least tell her how you're feeling.




Sylverdawn -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 7:34:43 AM)

I am going to be perfectly blunt... WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE.. your Miss doesnt love you enough, pay enough attention to you.. people want to talk to her.. .. oh dear your not getting enough play time.. dear me.. I dont get my turn on the cross.. OH FUCKING WELL.. when did it occurr to you that your wants and needs are paramount.. if by being there attending her desires, even if that is to wipe the sweat off her brow when she is drilling someone else on the cross well darlin so be it.thats what being in service is about. from your profile I see you are trying to regain her trust I would say you have enough issues to deal with without worrying about what she is doing.. worry about how well you are serving... bluntly SD




Araven -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 6:13:26 PM)

Thanks for all the advise and wonderful words of wisdom! Its not so much that she ignores my feelings or emotions, and we have discussed this issue among one another and have come to an agreement about such things.Its mostly people who start out with good intentions, and then start to get greedier and greedier, taking up more and more of her time. by the time we notice this, its already taken its toll. If that makes sense.

And Sylverdawn, i have no problem with the time or attention that my Mistress gives me. in fact I often spend my time near her, tending to her needs and fetching water, and tending to some of the aftercare when she plays with others. I actually live with her, and get to tend to her every day in some small fashion or form.

Stella, that was a wonderful post full of great words and thoughts. It does seem that many people can not afford these things. You are absolutely right, being into bdsm doesnt make us any more special, but for some reason, people get these sense of entitlement. it really is like seeing a small child not get their way alot of times.

MsStarlett: thanks for sharing your story about West. Its glad to know that I am not alone in some of the things we go through! *laughs*

Shiftedjewel: that helped, im glad to know your poly family is much like mine.




undergroundsea -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 6:55:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sylverdawn

I am going to be perfectly blunt... WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE.. your Miss doesnt love you enough, pay enough attention to you.. people want to talk to her.. .. oh dear your not getting enough play time.. dear me.. I dont get my turn on the cross.. OH FUCKING WELL.. when did it occurr to you that your wants and needs are paramount.. if by being there attending her desires, even if that is to wipe the sweat off her brow when she is drilling someone else on the cross well darlin so be it.thats what being in service is about.



I have been in a situation two or three times where I felt I did not get enough time from a domme. I am confident in my judgment that how I felt was at least partially justified.

I have also been in a situation where I was at a party with a domme and was interested to mingle with others. At one time we went off to mingle with others. However, when I felt that she was not having a good time on her own, I cut short my mingling to go to her. I did this not as an act of submission but as what I thought to be the appropriate thing to do and because I cared about her feelings. In my opinion, caring or not about how the other feels exists across all role preferences.

If a submissive feels discontent and that he is not getting enough attention, an issue exists. It may be the submissive is too clingly. It may be that the domme is being unfair. It may be a little bit of both.

I disagree with the notion that if a submissive wishes for more attention, by default it must be that he is whining. I disagree with the notion that stating one's needs means that he is focusing on his needs alone. I disagree with the notion that service makes it a duty for a submissive to wipe the sweat of the brow of a domme as she is beating another; there are different degrees of exclusivity and open relationships.

The duty of a submissive, and determining what each can expect of the other are matters subjectively defined from pair to pair.

If a submissive's needs are unmet, I think it is an issue that is relevant to both persons. It may be that they are incompatible but I don't think it is the submissive's duty to ignore his needs and happiness. If a domme ignores a submissive's needs, she will either have a submissive who is unhappy and resentful, or one who will eventually conclude that the two or not compatible.

Cheers,

Sea




HotMistress22 -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/15/2008 7:12:35 PM)

Great question.  Delicate subject.  I have been married to My sub for almost 20 years.  We live a 24/7 D/s lifestyle. When I started to cuckold him with other sub males, we had to set boundaries.  For Me, I have to like, know and feel comfortable and safe with the person I am sleeping with, so a relationship is necessary.  I always remind them that they are number 2.  We (sub hub & I) have a history and  another male can't compete with that.  Most of them are fine with it.  But occasionally I do get one who wants to be romantic and do vanilla activities together and they often get hurt when I decline and remind them of their purpose in My life.  It's always hard when dealing with people's feelings.  I recommend open communication and always remind those involved of their place.  As far as sub hub goes, he is always reminded that I am with him, he's the one I love.  I just need the others to love him harder.

Good luck!

HM




LadyPact -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/18/2008 4:32:13 AM)

I don't see this as whining either.  It's a legitimate concern for those who have a poly Dominant or those who have a Dominant who also engages in casual play with others.  This holds for those who are social people at lifestyle gatherings and events as well.

Part of what you are describing, Araven, can and does happen to a  point.  I can tell you that there have been times that My sub and I have gone to the club, I've instructed him to get the toys set up in a particular area, and it will be quite some time later when he gets those toys actually used.  Usually, he has to come and remind Me of how long I've been sitting on the patio because I've been catching up socially or negotiating scenes that will occur after his.  Yes, he's well aware of how other people do take up My time.  This was true even at Dom Con this past weekend, where I spent a lot of time talking with folks I hadn't seen in a while and did play casually with others, as well as playing with him.  I do have to add that, thankfully, he is also a social person, so that part generally doesn't bother him a great deal.

Like you, My sub is also in the situation of knowing that I have a primary relationship with My husband.  Before he was collared to Me last year, we also discussed at length the fact that I would continue to play casually with others.  However, one of the things that would specifically be worked on was the fact that his place with Me would be uniquely his.  That he is second only to My husband.  Other potential subs or casual play partners would not have the same importance to Me that he does.  I've reinforced this time and time again, including going so far as to say that a certain period is specifically for him, and no one else.

It's a grave mistake on anyone's part not to recognize the established relationships with either My husband or My sub.  Time with Me won't happen if someone can't respect what already exists.  The way a person treats either of them is definitely a reflection on how they will treat Me.  I expect as much courtesy given to My sub as I would get.  If someone can't do that, they don't have a place in My life.  Like yours, this is a family.  If someone turns their back or steps on the toes of one, they have effectively done so to the rest, and I can promise you that is exactly how I see it.

When I do look at folks who could possibly be added to the family, it's important for that new person to not only see how they fit with Me, but also how they fit with the others.  How that works out is not something I can command.  It's My belief that those relationships between the other members of the family have to happen naturally.  I can make My desires known, but I can't force a person to love another person in this family.   At the same time, there has to be some effort made on the other parties getting to know one another and at least making the attempt to treat each other like family.  I can't accept less.  I am absolutely a package deal.





MistressFaye1 -> RE: Disrespect for the established structure (10/18/2008 7:57:23 AM)

It's been quite some time since I've posted.  I've read many but felt compelled to respond to this one because I will soon have a somewhat poly household.  I too agree that we all have needs and for a submissive to feel he can express them to his Mistress is an indication of a positive relationship.  There is a distinct difference is whinning and expressing yourself.

The positive and supportive comments were helpful to me.  Thanks!

Ms. Faye




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