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AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 2:16:21 PM

BitaTruble

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First, AIG spent $440,000 on a resort vacation .. um.. that is a conference. Now, the top 4 execs at AIG have gone on a little junket across the pond spending about $85,000 bucks for .. pheasant hunting.

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/10/15/2008-10-15_hunters_become_the_hunted_state_investig.html

::sorry.. having trouble doing links right now!::

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 2:28:08 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

First, AIG spent $440,000 on a resort vacation .. um.. that is a conference. Now, the top 4 execs at AIG have gone on a little junket across the pond spending about $85,000 bucks for .. pheasant hunting.

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/10/15/2008-10-15_hunters_become_the_hunted_state_investig.html

::sorry.. having trouble doing links right now!::

Well Bita, peasants need jobs too! If some can make ends meat by renting themselves out as 'game' all the better for them. AIG is spending US Government tax money and it's a good way to redistribute it, per the Obama plan, to Europe. Who knows providing this facility for rich people to hunt peasants may be the cornerstone of the $50 Billion he's pledged to the UN. Peasants all over the world will be able to raise their standard of living! This is great for peasants!

(Oh - you said pheasants!)

Nevermind...

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 2:34:52 PM

Lucylastic

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Im not a pheasant plucker
Im a pheasant pluckers son
And Im only plucking feathers
till the pheasant plucker comes.

Hmmmm back to the OP, maybe it was a goodbye weekend party??? when are these people going to be stopped???
Lucy

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 2:38:37 PM

LadyEllen

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ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL

BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 2:38:58 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

(Oh - you said pheasants!)

Do you remember the comic strip "Oh, Wicked Wanda!" that appeared in Penthouse in the late 70's/early 80's? One of the activities the rich engaged in was dressing the peasants in bird suits and launching them with a catapult as targets for the shotgun-wielding elite.

Ah, the good old days...

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 2:53:58 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

First, AIG spent $440,000 on a resort vacation .. um.. that is a conference. Now, the top 4 execs at AIG have gone on a little junket across the pond spending about $85,000 bucks for .. pheasant hunting.

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/10/15/2008-10-15_hunters_become_the_hunted_state_investig.html

::sorry.. having trouble doing links right now!::

Well Bita, peasants need jobs too! If some can make ends meat by renting themselves out as 'game' all the better for them. AIG is spending US Government tax money and it's a good way to redistribute it, per the Obama plan, to Europe. Who knows providing this facility for rich people to hunt peasants may be the cornerstone of the $50 Billion he's pledged to the UN. Peasants all over the world will be able to raise their standard of living! This is great for peasants!

(Oh - you said pheasants!)

Nevermind...

Oh no...this is the Bush/McCain plan and it worked out just beautifully...don't you think ? I mean what could possibly be better ? Getting almost $50 BILLION in bonuses from 2006-08, take this street belly-up to bankruptcy and the good 'ole Amricam taxpayer will not only make us whole again but pay for our fun too.

Well, I think these jobs will require that great acting feat of acting dead...or they really will be dead. Don't have to pay a dead pheasant.

No...rather this is just another all of these no-so-little-reminders of the immorality of capitalism...oh I am sorry...moral hazard that we don't really want to admit to and because it's been going on for far too many years. You see, the socialism of wall street is much more profitable and lucrative than ANY socialism in Europe.

See now, even this is part of our culture so we just sluff it off and mainly because we won't pay for these trinkets of the corporate socialists...our children will. And their children and their...I mean you have to love how we in the US redistribute wealth...from the bottom up. AT least in Europe it is a little more...not much but a little more top down.

I mean this scum from wall street pisses in the taxpayer's face and says give me $85 BILLION to bail out my shit paper and oh...BTW pay for our $400,000 parties AND our $85,000 pheasant hunting trips abroad.

I am worried though for these titans of industry because sure would like to see them still be able to retire at 35 and with millions like the average managment...at least in investment banking whatever that is.

In fact McCain is already hard at work planning the next party called a REDUCTION in capital gains from the outrageous rate of 15% to 7.5%. I can't wait...can you ?

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/15/2008 3:09:32 PM >

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 3:10:08 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Well, I think these jobs will require that great acting feat of acting dead...or they really will be dead.

Well, Mr. R, I use a paint-ball gun to hunt peasants in the empty game preserve I have just for that purpose. All buxom naked woman frolicking through the heather; well taken care of - farm raised 'ya know. The ball leaves a mark, but no real harm done.

I mean, not anything like the harm that socialism did for Russia or anywhere it's been tried and failed in the face of the reality of human egotism. The inherent lack of initiative resulting from limited personal opportunity for success was evident. While serving the whims of a political hierarchy class who inefficiently reallocated and redistributed assets under the guise of being a benevolent 'nanny government' the people suffered. Granted that except for the ruling elite they suffered equally while generating a stagnate stench of social and economic decay.

I appreciate that is a preferable goal for many when compared to the potential individual success which can be derived by capitalism; but not for me. When the ruling elite started to hunt the proletariat who dared to challenge their hypocrisy; they didn't use paint-balls.

But that's just me...

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 3:37:37 PM

MrRodgers

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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Well, I think these jobs will require that great acting feat of acting dead...or they really will be dead.

Well, Mr. R, I use a paint-ball gun to hunt peasants in the empty game preserve I have just for that purpose. All buxom naked woman frolicking through the heather; well taken care of - farm raised 'ya know. The ball leaves a mark, but no real harm done.

I mean, not anything like the harm that socialism did for Russia or anywhere it's been tried and failed in the face of the reality of human egotism. The inherent lack of initiative resulting from limited personal opportunity for success was evident. While serving the whims of a political hierarchy class who inefficiently reallocated and redistributed assets under the guise of being a benevolent 'nanny government' the people suffered. Granted that except for the ruling elite they suffered equally while generating a stagnate stench of social and economic decay.

I appreciate that is a preferable goal for many when compared to the potential individual success which can be derived by capitalism; but not for me. When the ruling elite started to hunt the proletariat who dared to challenge their hypocrisy; they didn't use paint-balls.

But that's just me...

No, it isn't just you...it is millions who continue to believe that communism was socialism when it was nothing of the kind. It was a centrally planned (politburo) run collective economy where property was state (communist party) owned whereas socialism is democratic or republican govt. ownership of the means of production. Yes, communism was bankrupt and turned the Ukraine from the world's largest agricultural exporter into it's largest importer.

Capitalism is neither an economic or political system...it is ONLY buying and selling of property or cash generating production already in existence or paper...low and selling high. The paper side of capitalism and it's brother corporate co-conspirators serves neither society as a whole or the individual unless they are an investor. 70 % of the profits in this country are generated by financial transactions or paper chasing paper and has long since proven to be a means to concentrate wealth as exemplified by the immorally top heavy return on capital vs the return on labor in the US.

The corporate world does little better with the Fortune 500 having created not one new net job in this country in 40 years and in fact shed jobs as fast as they can move them to the true capitalist fascist, like China. We're just gett'n started.

Tell me something...if capitalism and not the free market which is what I MUCH prefer is so great...how is it that wall street needs such socialism ?

How is it that it is the taxpayer's responsibility to put lipstick on the shit-paper they created ? How is it the taxpayers are supposed to make IBM and Exxon stock go back up again ?

How is it that just before this last role of the dice of wall street and I use these two purposefully...IBM and Exxon announced they are taking $24 BILLION CASH (combined 15 IBM, 9 Exxon) NOT to expand markets...NOT to create markets...NOT to create jobs...NO, but to buy their stock back ? It is because they are in the truest sense of the word...CAPITALISTS. Free market/capitalism merc is an oxymoron and now wall street is in the porcess of proving it.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/15/2008 3:55:54 PM >

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 3:59:41 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Tell me something...if capitalism and not the free market which is what I MUCH prefer is so great...how is it that wall street needs such socialism ?

How is it that it is the taxpayer's responsibility to put lipstick on the shit-paper they created ? How is it the taxpayers are supposed to make IBM and Exxon stock go back up again ?

It's not. You and I are in total agreement that there is no difference in the welfare given to Corporations or the welfare given to individuals. Were there a Presidential candidate who voted against it - they'd have my vote. As it is they are both on record supporting Corporate welfare.

I think both Corporate and personal welfare are detestable and counter productive. Both result in the expectation of entitlement and, worse, reward failure. Let the failures fail is my simple philosophy.

However, similar to people holding out their hand for a handout - Corporations are no different. Offer a bail out and they'll take it. Your issue is in the public display, in this case AIG, of its use. Is it any different or meriting a different accepting attitude when a food card is exchanged for drugs or any other unintended usage by those receiving that government benefit? Think the scale make a difference? - Collectively it doesn't. I've asked the question may times and yet to get an example of any Government entitlement program that was dissolved because it 'worked' and there aren't anymore people looking for a government hand out. It's never happened. Start providing handouts and you'll get a never ending line of people no longer having any incentive to fend for themselves.

Agreed that a pure form of 'socialism' hasn't been tried. As soon as someone has to administer to it, or someone or some group has to be 'in charge' - socialism ends. It ends as soon as the model exceed the size of a large family. Any county dependent upon universal equality of effort is doomed by the reality that equal effort is not possible. Some people are stronger, smarter, more adept, more 'whatever'. There is no human equality and believing that you'd work as hard as you do now for the rest of your life if 50% of your effort went to support a neighbor whose efforts resulted in 10% of your production flies in the face of all human history.

quote:

Free market/capitalism merc is an oxymoron and now wall steeet is in the porcess of proving it.

Assuming you aren't referencing a 'barter' system there is no disagreement between us. But what does that point to as a solution? Where is the incentive when, no matter how much individual effort you put in you'll only get your rationed reward? Tell me you won't do the least you can get away with in the long term? On the other hand, the 'carrot' provided by a capitalist system at least lets you think more personal effort will be rewarded. Even if it isn't you don't feel like your effort is being wasted on those who don't have the initiative to do the same. It may be false or self-delusional, but nowhere can you point to any example of a society that's thrived outside a model providing the potential for personal advancement.

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/15/2008 6:54:29 PM

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Ok merc, we are in agreement on a whole host of problems and most of the factors that led to this point. But allow me some exceptions.

First, drug addiction is a public health problem and we will never get govt. programs that address that problem anywhere like we get from govt. to medically cure others and...is immoral as failure for govt. to addrerss society's collective obligatoin in its own intrerest.

Example: I have on online sub who is as we type, in rehab...it is tuff, it is 6 weeks. with extreme regimentation, it is FREE and it is in Canada. We can't have that here...we're too rich for that.

Second: We have greatly restricted AFDC. (and that took a Clinton...that disgusting liberal spender) Yet under most repubs and under BUSH wow, we have actually taken farm subsidies from $10 to $20 billion and give it to fewer and fewer farmers. Lobbiest want lumber tariffs...steel wants tariffs to protect profits...they get those tariffs.

Now's there is some very successful socialism. Society is forced to do this as it being forced now to take on this $trillion dollar debt obligation because of course we don't have that money.

Third: The means of production and its private ownership is one of the big 'sellers' in capitalism yet while the productivity of the American workforce for just one example...has gone up over 30% in 20 years...wages had gone up about 3% by 2000 has now gone down to about 1.5% as there are no laws of man or nature that requires investors to distribute those additional profits to labor...and they don't.

Yes, the freedom of the individual is king for the ultimate success of any system but those rewards you mention come from the free market not from capitalism or the capitalist. Those players are buyers and sellers, paper-traders and capitalism does not drive the marketplace or serve society, it ride on the back of labor.

"Labor comes first, labor IS capital, without labor...you have no capital."
Abraham Lincoln 1837

It is always the drive of the free market that liberates and inspires potential, and it is its carrots that is the goal but we give a big tax break (15% on cap. gains...upto 35% on labor) which creates the incentive to trade paper (IBM/Exxon, futures, stocks, bonds) over the incentive to create markets and jobs.

Example: In the past IBM created markets...solid state memory (mainframes) and the manufacturing of integrated circuits on silicon chips. Alone those accounted for 10 million jobs directly and likely the estimated 20 million jobs overall. Say goodbye to that stuff.

We need to use govt. to get financial incentives back into a free market and first by re-arranging the tax code but there is one problem...any REAL reformer would be shot to death or better yet...killed in a terrorist attack for cover. The capitalist in the past had no problem killing his problems.

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RE: AIG does it again! - 10/16/2008 6:55:20 PM

Vendaval

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Is Dick Cheney leading the hunting party?

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