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Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 2:20:16 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
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It's late at night and I can't sleep.  I have had a lot of things running through my mind the last few days.  I've been doing some personal writing in the process.  Now, I realize this thread covers the age old endless postings about Game Players, Liars, and those people that are less then honest.

Let's face it, many of us have been burned by people that were less then honest in the past.  Be it the recent past or the far distant past.   I myself have been burned a couple of times by girls from this website, who were not who or what they were making themselves out to be.

One of the biggest questions many of us are left with, is why? Why would somebody be so less then honest?  What could be the possible motivations behind such behavior.  Truth and lies.  Game playing and lessons learned and how does this fit into D/s or BDSM relationships.

Personally, after having been burned a few times.  I myself have questioned my own judgement abilities. At times our own abilities fail us, sure it's pretty easy to spot the obvious Game Players, Liars and fakes and wankers.  But there's always that one or two the slip right under our own radar.  Even the Game Players and people that are dishonest are incapable of being totally dishonest.  It's the good qualities of these people that we fall in love with and adore.  In fact, we trust and believe them because they are not feeding pure 100% bullshit. 

Now, I wish to share something with other people something a little Ugly from my own past.  I'm going to jump up on the soap box and point the finger at myself for a moment.  So often it's easy for us to point fingers at everybodys short coming and failures in life without taking the time to acknowledge and admit to our own fucked behaviors and actions in life.

An Ugly Slice of my past (being a lieing Bastard).
I want to share with you something from my own past.  It's UGLY, it's True and something I'm not Proud about.  Goes back to
when I was under age, and was not legal to drink in the bars.  Please understand, that it's not in my nature to cause anybody any real harm or pain. 

I managed to get into an extremely popular club that was a challenge to get into, in fact it involved a little Social Engineering with the Bouncer/Door Guy ahead of time and fake ID.  I used a fake name and identity.  I used to use my middle name and go by "Rick" to pull this off.  Trust me when I got phone calls to the house asking for Rick, my grandmother would not think twice about me using my middle name.  

Anyhoo, I was having the time of my life.  Being underage and in a really Awesome hard to get into club. It was all sort of thrilling for me.  Dancing, Drinking and having a really really great time.  The last thing on my mind was to met
somebody and for it become serious.  However that's what happened.  I met a girl, she was truely an amazing girl. 

Right from the start, I had introduced myself as Rick (my middle name) and another last name (not my real last name). That I was 22 years old and not 17 and still in high school.  I had lie covering the type of work I did for living as well.

I was in the bar feeding everybody the same bogus story and line of shit about who and what I was.  I was there to have a good time.  Trust me, I was flirting with women and having a blast.  The last thing on my mind was causing anybody any harm, pain or hurt.

When I first met this girl, let's call her "Pam" for the hell of it (use of names can become questionable with the TOS).  I did not really think much about it.  She was just some girl I was flirting around and dancing with.  Yes, I was using her for my own good time. 

However, we ended up hanging out together most of the night. Laughing and having an awesome time.  In fact, the chemistry was so amazing that something I had not been counting on happened.  Towards the end of the night. Looking into each others eyes, expressing how much we both enjoyed the time together.  Our lips drawing closer and closer, just like a scene in a hollywood movie.  That moment was sort of like an ultimate high, the connection, the kiss, the whole moment in itself.

She asked me if I would be up for doing this again, and going out on a date.  I just had the most amazing moment with somebody and I was totally up for it.  We exchanged phone numbers.  Deep down inside, there was a pit in my stomach over my deception and lie.  However, I managed to convince myself that my lies were justified because that was the only way I could get into this one club. 

For the next 4-5 monthes, her and I dated steady. I was maintaining the whole facade I had going on. As time passed it was
tearing at my soul about how to come clean with her.  I felt trapped, and overwhelmed.  I started to pull away from her.  I literally started avoiding not returning her phone calls, I started making excuses for not letting her come visit me at my house. She was wanting to met my Grandmother, was interested in seeing where I lived. Intested in seeing my cat and my dog.  OH SHIT...  I went on extreme avoidence mode.

Then the late night phone call happened, she was in tears, torn up, upset, lost and confused.  She was wondering what she did wrong. I tried to explain to her, that she had done nothing wrong.  That she was an amazing girl.  I said, the problem was me. She was trying to pry for more answers. 

The moment of truth had arrived. 

She was tore up feeling like shit about herself, that she had not been doing something right or that she was not good enough for me.  I was torn up inside and feeling like shit for being the lieing piece of shit that I was and had been.  I was torn up about her being torn up.  I told her that I wanted to see her the next night, and that we would talk more then.

I saw her the next night. she had tried to make everything so perfect for me and us that night. Candle light dinner, romantic music, all kinds of special touches. (I'm in tears right now just remembering this night).

I remember begging to God to stike my soul down with lightening after walking out the door.  I remember the look upon her face, when I came clean about my Lies.  To literally see the deep expression of pain flooding her as the truth ripped out her heart. 

Deep down inside, I had somehow convinced myself that she might be able to forgive and understand my deception and lies.  That she would understand how trapped and aweful feeling that my own lies made me.  I explained about how my lies all got started.  Literally though, I was speaking volumes about my character to her as the truth parted from my own lips.

The people that owned the club were good friends with her family, and she did not let me off the hook so easy.  You see, I was not thinking about the fact that I was putting somebodys business at Risk.  I was thinking about myself and my own good time, I was too caught in seeking out my own thrill and adventure.  To be doing something that I should not being doing.

The biggest favor Pam did for me that night, was not let me off the hook with my own bullshit excuses for my actions and behaviors.  I can not express the levels of shame, humilation and guilt I felt that night.  Along with seeing the hurt I caused an amazing women.  All for what?  My own good time?  My own thrill ride...  that's how this all got started to begin with. 

I had backed myself into a corner. Where I resorted to using lies to cover up other lies.  I was trying to hold onto things between her and I for as long as I could.  Yes, I was being selfish and self centered and deceptive.

Lessons learned
I think it's prettty obvious that I learned some lessons from this experience.  Trust me, this was not the only experience.  I actually had broken a few hearts before this moment. This experience was different in the fact, that I actually had an emotional attachment and deep connection with real chemistry with somebody.  Somebody that I actually found myself caring about, and knew I had to do the right thing in coming clean with the truth.  Mind you, I had attempted to use a lot of crazy self justications for my own actions.  But that all a lot of bullshit. 

I do have a limited degree of Empathy for liars and so called game players.  Why?  Because I've been one myself in some manner, why and shape and form.  If anything, when I encounter somebody who's into playing these Bullshit games, I try my hardest to get them open up and face me with the truth.  I try my hardest to simply not write them off in 2.5 seconds flat.  I try to do for them what PAM did for me so many years ago. 

It's with the hope that they might live and learn from it.  Plus, who knows, it may or may not be something I can understand and forgive.  It gives them one last honest shot with me.  Something that I did not get with Pam.  However, it would have meant the world to me.  My heart honestly did break badly over things.

Every time I hear this song it has a special meaning to me.....

"No one knows what its like
To be the bad man
To be the sad man
Behind blue eyes

No one knows what its like
To be hated
To be fated
To telling only lies

But my dreams
They arent as empty
As my conscience seems to be....."

How this applies to D/s BDSM perspective
I try to get to the root of bad behavior such as this, in a partner, a prospective partner or even a total stranger when I see it for what it really is.  Sure, turning your back and writting somebody off is really easy to do.  It really does not teach nor show the person anything about themselves.

It's a real challenge when it personally involves yourself to deal with it.  To emotionally keep the hurt from turning to anger and simply wanting to mindlessly lash out.  (Dare I admit it, I have even mindlessly lashed out verbally before).

For me many aspects about BDSM or D/s are part of living life.  A lifestyle to live and way to conduct yourself regardless if you are in or out of relationship at the time.  I'm still not a perfect person.  I still have flaws and faults and weakness.   I have grown since I was that 17 year old guy with a fake identity.  But that 17 years old guy is me, and a part of who and what I am as a whole person. 

Often when people talk or think of themselves in the past context, it's as if they were another person.

While I have expressed my degree of Empathy of sorts for Liar, Game players... It's also something that I really don't have much tolerence for.  I don't tolerate nor accept this behavior in myself.

Final thoughts
I wanted to post something from a slightly different perspective, share with other people a slice of life. 

Who knows, perhaps somebody who has become trapped by their own lies will read this and it will give them some food for thoughts.  Perhaps, somebody will read this and be able to relate 100% to this experience.   Perhaps, this posting might even provide a little insight and understanding to somebody.

For me this is a painful writing excerise.  It's something I've opted to force myself to share with the world.  There are a number of good reasons why I'm posting this.

Now, this thread is OPEN for others to share thier experiences.  From any side of the coin.  I know that I'm not the only one who had been burned by lies or that has done the burning in telling lies and being deceptive.
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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 4:14:18 AM   
Lindamae508


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i didnt exactly lie, i just didnt tell, when i finally told my dom, he dropped me like a hot potato saying that i broke the trust

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 4:26:02 AM   
JustDarkness


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sometimes the truth hurts as much as lies....so which one to pick can be a very hard decission.
Propably all (or many) would say tell the truth..but will we really aways do that? 

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 4:55:09 AM   
colouredin


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I hate lies for one big reason, my mother. She had an affair with a woman when i was 15 and lied constantly about everything, at the time I didnt get it, now I do, she was ashamed of her actions and confused she didnt know how to handle all the emotions she was feeling, she thought lying was a way of hiding it, having a double life and give her time to sort herself out, of courseit didnt work that way. Some of the worst lies, the lies that can hurt the most are told at a time when the lier is going trough huge amount of emotional turmoil. In the case of an affair they dont know what they are doing or what they want, it untrue therefore that the 'victim' isnt cared about, if they werent then there would be no problem in telling the truth. We very rarely see it from that point of view though, liers are bd, yet I cant think of anyone i know who has never told a lie.

I have also been lied to when starting a D/s relationship too, however the lie wasnt conscious but it was still a lie, it was hoped that I would make their life better and therefore gave me a distorted view of themself in the genuiene belief that they were suddenly going to be happy. OF course it doesnt work like that.

Not all lies come from a bad place, not all are about manipulation. I have lied before, to save face and save other peoples feelings I have even lied to get revenge. I think that we actullay need to understand where our lies come from to understand why others lie to us. I may prevent the extent of the bitterness that we feel towards them when the lies come to light,

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 6:05:13 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


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Motivations and forgiveness
Back years ago, I somebody stole an expensive vocal microphone from me.  I did not who did it.  There had been a lot of people in/out the place in a couple of days that it had happened in.

I let everybody know, that I had a microphone stolen.  I then kicked and did absolutely nothing else about it.  Did not call up the cops or give everybody the third degree.  I felt it best to not make everybody feel uncomfortable, where they got worried that I was accusing them of stealing it, or questioning my trust in them.

Basically, I just kicked back and observed things for the next couple of weeks.  Ironic thing, was seeing who no longer was showing up and visiting me.  I had a lot of musician friends, so it made it a little more difficult. 

So I picked up the phone and called my friend that I had not seen in awhile.  I asked him how he was doing. He said Good.  I then asked why I had not seen him around and that I enjoyed Jamming with him.  I mentioned in passing that I out a microphone, and never figured out who took it.  

A couple of days pass, and he comes to visit me.  Sitting in my living room, he seemed a bit on edge.  Said he needed to tell me something.  Then he blurted out the fact that he was the one that took my microphone.  That he felt like shit about it, that he was only thinking about himself and how much he wanted a great microphone like mine.   That this is the reason why he's been not coming around to visit me, because he felt like shit.

He pulled my microphone out of his jacket set it down on the table, apologized some more, and openly admitted there was no excuse for his behavior.

I sat there for a moment, a little blown away.  However, I had a lot of respect for him coming clean with me and returning my microphone.   I had a lot of respect for him finding the strength and courage to do the right thing.  In many ways, my trust in him grew and opposed to having it go down the drain.

What I appreciated was that he came to me and that I did not have to beat the truth out of him.  I try to express to people how much I value the truth, that I have an open door for somebody to come clean with me.  I give them way back out of whatever stupid corner they box themselves into.   However, it means that the person has to value whatever relationship they have with me, inorder to be able to do this.

After this happened, I never once worried that he would steal from me again.  I never judged him or held this over his head.

There are something that I find difficult to forgive, because the truth came out in some nasty ugly way.  People that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, that tends to do it for me as well. 

Forgiveness is within me, and there are times when it's nearly impossible for me to forgive somebody.  Depends upon the person I am dealing with, how much I value the relationship, how much I feel they value their relationship with me.  If I feel like I mean very little next to nothing to them and the truth came out in an ugly way.  I'm not so forgiving of a person.

Trust me, not only do I listen for an apology, I listen for them to express remorse and what I mean to them, and what our relationship means to them.  This applies to all relationships I have with people in general.

Perhaps I'm a bit of a softy, but I'm also a bit of a hardass at the same time.  I expect the other person to be able to take responsibilitity.  I expect for the other person to value me and our relationship in some manner.  

Lack of responsibility, along with the lack of respect for me and the relationship, well tends to extremely rub me in the wrong direction.

This why it was so easy for me to forgive my friend who stole from me.  Because he took responsibility for his actions, was sincere in the things he expressed.  It was clear to me that he valued me and our friendship over an expensive vocal microphone. 

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile2 -- 10/16/2008 6:08:25 AM >

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 7:46:41 AM   
leadership527


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Beautiful post whip... and yes... I've been there too *sighs*.  There have been times in my past when I lived a lie and thoughtlessly hurt other people in the process.  I somehow suspect it'll happen again at some point... as your story indicates, sometimes these things happen one step at a time until suddenly you find yourself in WAY deeper than you ever imagined.  I'm still working on that whole "being perfect" thing and I guess I still have at least you for company on these boards *laughs*.  Perhaps we need a new forum.. "Ask an imperfect P/person".

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 8:13:10 AM   
MrHarsh


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To be fair, some people lie to others only because they are lying to themselves.  They might think they are something they are not.  When they "lie", it is not deliberate.  They are merely distributing false information that they believe to be correct.

Some people concoct such lies because they do not feel comfortable with who they really are.  They find the truth to be ugly and unbearable. 

Liars should not necessarily be condemned - only if their lies are malicious and deliberate.

All of us mislead and misrepresent for a large variety of reasons.  Some are good.  Some are bad.  Some just are.

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 8:14:58 AM   
MistressOfGa


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Wow. I can't imagine the amount of courage it took for you to post this. I am not the type of person who cries over something I read on a message forum, but your honesty and your ability to lay yourself out emotionally naked to us, is amazing.
 
Thank you for sharing your story.
 
With that said, I can say this; I have had my share of shame, humiliation and heartache over lies I have told in my past. I do understand the trap that ensnares you when you know the right thing is to come clean and tell the truth, no matter how painful it is on your part, it is the correct thing to do. The betrayal is immediate and brutal to the person you are finally being honest with. I am a much forgiving person now, because of my own experiences. I hate liars, but I also understand that each circumstance is different, and I can not simply write one person off, because of what another did. I have been forgiven and I have forgiven.
 
I am who I am today, because of who I was yesterday.
 
<Hugs to you WhiplashSmile>
 
 

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 8:19:05 AM   
MistressOfGa


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quote:

Some of the worst lies, the lies that can hurt the most are told at a time when the lier is going trough huge amount of emotional turmoil.


Colouredin,
How true this statement is. Not an excuse, but certainly a better understanding of what makes us mere mortals. I wish there was such a thing as a time machine, I've a feeling quite a few of us would use it.
 


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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 8:21:47 AM   
faerytattoodgirl


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quote:

sometimes the truth hurts as much as lies.


i certainly can tell you that this is the most true thing.... crap i said true....

it was rough on me when i started dating as faery and told who the original faery was... LOL...but hiding the original faery from people just makes things hell when it comes out.

now...the original faery is out in the open...and i cant find a date because of it... LOL...a no win situation!!! people cant handle the truth!



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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 8:45:24 AM   
KnashsLiLwench


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*hugs Whip*  thank you for sharing this with us.  To lay your mistakes out like this for the world to see takes amazing strength

i can relate to this totally.  i lost a four year relationship over "trust" long story short i met his friend first and instead of being honest with him and telling him i didnt think it was going anywhere i made up a few lil stories to avoid him, fast forward and i fall in love with his best friend.  He knows all about my life and all the stories, i avoid the subject as much as possible but never come right out and say "no that never happend i lied to get him to leave me alone"  anyway it knicked away at us until he finally confronted me.  no regrets here though, only lessons learned.

and the up side is that even though we are no longer an item, he is to this day one of my best friends. (and he knows the real me) i learned the hard way that the only way for me to ever fully love me is to never be anything but me


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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 9:02:24 AM   
missturbation


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I abhor lies. I can just about forgive those who lie but when  push comes to shove will admit their deceit. I absolutely cannot forgive those who continue to lie. I always find it slightly amusing when people surround themselves in a web of deceit and then when caught out flounder around claiming innocence. A had a case of this recently.
I'd been under someones consideration for eight months, we'll call him fred. He was intelligent, witty, deep, caring and a great guy. Or so i thought. Over the eight months we made several plans to meet and everyone ended up not coming off. The excuses were as follows:-
He was admitted to hospital. His 'friend' told me whilst in freds msn changing his tag lines and pictures. Hmm.
He was in a car crash. His car wasn't fit to drive.
His car broke down approximately 3 or 4 times.
He lost, broke or some other thing his car keys.
In all these excuses he still wanted me to be his slave and claimed to love me.
We were both still chatting to others, not (supposably) with a view to seeing them or anything but just general chit chat. I began speaking to someone whom i knew could be more than a friend and i knew that i had to tell fred that i had met someone. So i did. He was really good about it and said he'd been chatting to a few too and that he may decide to take one of them on. All good, all cool.
I then discovered he was on the verge of collaring someone. Either a very fast worker or he'd been seeing this girl a while. I asked him, he was evasive about the truth so i just deleted him from my contacts as someone unworthy of even my friendship. As i said i abhor lies but abhor with a vengeance people who don't come clean when caught.
Unfortunately though this wasn't the end of it. I began to get cm mails from a 'mystery' person telling me to stay away from fred. Telling me had a girl and to leave him alone. I was like what the fuck. I had contact with fred and his girl and in and amongst the crap a few more truths came out. Apparently fred had had a girlfriend previously to his new girl and him and said new girl were living together and had been for a while.Ironically it was the new girl that revealed these pearls of wisdom to me. Obviously i asked fred for the truth but he couldn't be a man and admit any of it.
Now we hadn't met so i don't class any of what fred did as cheatiing but he was still decietful and still continues to be so. That pisses me off. However what pisses me off is that all through that eight months i knew he was being less than truthful with me but i lied to myself and told myself i could trust him.
There ya go a tale of two, possibly three liars. 

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 9:36:32 AM   
justgemmie


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greetings Whiplash

I know exactly what you're saying, as I've been there, done that, have the t-shirt.  Below is part of one of my journal entries that talks about this very topic (emphasis added for this post).  what i am doing now, and not necessarily well all the time, is learning how to be honest without being hurtful.  i'm not always as tactful as i would like to be, but i'm trying ........

about 2 years ago or so, i met a Dom on alt.  He was sooooo cute, a doctor, was wonderfully sadistic and had been in the lifestyle for a number of years.  He was looking for a slave.  and i reallllllllly liked Him.  but i had not yet learned to not push good Men away because of my own insecurites.  so, i told a lie.  and He KNEW it was a lie, giving me ample opportunities during our discussion to admit it.  but i didn't; at that point in my life, i couldn't.  and He left me for that lie.
 
i apologized from the heart for that.  i also wrote a public apology for all to see, so the Man would understand how sorry i was and that i had accepted responsibility for my actions and punished myself in a way by letting others know of my actions.  He eventually forgave, but never forgot -- and He was unable to trust me again.  i learned a great lesson from that time.  i now do not lie.  at least, i try so very very very hard not to.  i can't say i never do, but i damn well try harder not to lie then almost any other thing in my life.
 
well wishes,
Gemmie

< Message edited by justgemmie -- 10/16/2008 9:37:38 AM >


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"Being a Master to somebody or a slave to somebody is a relationship bound status. Without the relationship the status does not exist and all that is there is the potential or the natural inclination to fulfill such a status in the future." ~ ishyB

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 10:37:11 AM   
DavanKael


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Hi, Whiplashsmile2----
2 truly poignant stories highlighted not only by a good style in telling but true depth and insight in each.  Thank you for sharing. 
Some of this speaks to some recent stuff from an nearly year long relationship and I don't really have anything cogent to say about that.  It also reminds me, most decisively of the one major serious untruth I participated in/enabled in a relationship several years ago and that I still pay pennance for. 
Walking with thoughtfulness through the lives of others if important, I think.  Walking with others is important. 
I thank you for your stories and your insights. 
  Davan

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 10:56:10 AM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

sometimes the truth hurts as much as lies.


i certainly can tell you that this is the most true thing.... crap i said true....

it was rough on me when i started dating as faery and told who the original faery was... LOL...but hiding the original faery from people just makes things hell when it comes out.

now...the original faery is out in the open...and i cant find a date because of it... LOL...a no win situation!!! people cant handle the truth!




although you said LOL  ...I am sorry to hear.

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RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 11:51:49 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

Not all lies come from a bad place, not all are about manipulation. I have lied before, to save face and save other peoples feelings I have even lied to get revenge. I think that we actullay need to understand where our lies come from to understand why others lie to us. I may prevent the extent of the bitterness that we feel towards them when the lies come to light,


This is the way I feel too...not all lies come frm a bad place nor is every lie a form of manipulation. 

I've lied...I admit it.  Do I lie at the level I used to?  No...part of that is because I have grown older and wiser and have learned that in most cases...though not all, by any means...the lies tend to cause more pain when the truth comes out or is found out than telling the truth does.  An example from my own life, since Whiplash was good enough to share from his.  I was dealing with a beautiful, sweet submissive...getting to know her, talking quite often to her, caring for and liking her more and more all the time.  One time, she asked me flat out if I had spoken to someone and I lied.  Reason?  Plain and simple, the minute she asked me that question I flashed back into the "cover my ass" mode that I had adapted during the final year of my marriage.  The ironic thing?  There was no need to...I didn't own the sweet submissive and we had not put any sort of "exclusionary" clause on each other so while she could have been angry/jealous/whatever about me speaking with another, I didn't give her the chance to nor did I give myself a chance to deal with a situation that clearly would have been uncomfortable but at least would have been truthful and communicative.  And the part that I still beat myself up for occasionally?  The other girl I was speaking with was a friend  though at one time had been an interest.
The end result?  Two months of space, during which time several other new issues in her life presented themselves.  We finally began to speak again but there were problems...oddly enough, due to her not keeping her word which of course resulted in no communication.  And as coloured notes...."I think that we actullay need to understand where our lies come from to understand why others lie to us. It may prevent the extent of the bitterness that we feel towards them when the lies come to light."
But of course for that to happen, communication has to take place...whether it is the last conversation or the beginning of a whole series of new ones.


(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 12:20:55 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
For years one of my sisters was a chronic liar, to the point where I would have to look out the window if she said it was raining out. She lied so much and over so many things but the worst was that she believed the lies. She had created her own world and her world was all she saw. The reasons behind her pathology don't really matter (and they're too long to get into) but eventually she pulled herself together and bit by bit her lies shifted back to reality.

I've always easily empathized with others, looking behind words and actions to the emotion. I'm told it is one of my best qualities but its also one of my worst (IMO) because I end up taking a lot more crap than I should as I wait peoples games out. Right now I'm on the edge of a game thats making me doubt myself and my own motives, I may understand the games but jeez I totally suck at playing them. I hear this womans lies to me and others, I know the actual truth. She needs help that I can give but she won't accept it until she has put me through an emotional wringer. In battling herself to accepting my help she hurts me.

Luckily other than that I've managed to escape unscathed from heartbreak caused by lies for most of my life. I think a great part of that is due to my understanding why sometimes people try and create a reality that doesn't exist through lies and self deceit.

Intentional deceit is a whole 'nother ballgame though. They both take a bit of planning but I see them as very different as far as intent goes. Those that craft lies in order to simply gain something are much more difficult for me to understand. RR and I met online and for months I danced around revealing my age. He never pushed and looking back I think I would have lied about my age especially since I assumed we would never meet. I had this set thing in my mind, that I would only be attractive below a certain age.

We actually discussed that time period not too long ago. He knew what I was doing, he understood where it was coming from. And he waited me out.

I guess the lesson for me is that I'm going to continue to look behind peoples presentation because fear and other things can get in the way. Despite the hurt that I am in right now I am still waiting out my friend for that moment when she realizes its okay to take my help.


_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 2:10:34 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

However what pisses me off is that all through that eight months i knew he was being less than truthful with me but i lied to myself and told myself i could trust him.


Aiee, yeah.  I could write a very similar story, with the same conclusion, about one of my D/s involvements.  There's some kind of hubris involved here, at least for me.  I tracked his lies for months, and convinced myself that so long as I knew he was lying it didn't matter: I could still love him, still trust him and still submit.  Like, I'm that good.  I tried not to let on that I knew he was lying, and let him believe that I believed him when he lied to me which meant that I had to continually work to accomodate that intricate mess in the practice of submitting to him.  I had to live a double layer of lies; his first order lies and my second order lies about believing his first order lies.  And, then, I had the nerve to be offended when he treated me like I was stupid.   I was acting like I was stupid so of course, he treated me that way.   As my mother used to say, "Woe those tangled webs we weave when we practice to deceive."  I've spent a long time wondering why I got myself into such a mixed up tangled mess and am not sure if I've got a good answer to that--the only thing that I can come up with is that I wanted an easy way out of my life and was clinging too tightly to illusions I should have been letting go of.  I was trying to live off hope.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 2:44:18 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
I think it's impossible not to lie. I try very hard to tell the truth but what is truth?
To reveal myself completely to another person is impossible.
I'm constantly evolving. Isn't everyone?
Ok I don't steal I don't use false identification etc.
But there are other ways to deceive people.
When they make an assumption and I don't correct it. Is that a lie?
When I use a word in a different way than the accepted meaning. Is that a lie? 
When I say I'm married but I'm not cheating because my husband knows. Is that a lie?
Some people think it is because they think it's still cheating.
When  I feel let down I assume I've been lied to BUT I may not have been.
It may just have been my expectations of what someone's motives were.
If someone doesn't say they want a monogomous relationship do you assume that they do or do you assume that they don't?
And even if they say they want monogomy that can change. So were they lying when they said they did?
Checking and rechecking that people still feel and think the way they did two minutes ago is pretty damned difficult. Isn't that why we have safe words or actions?
Now if I do lie to spare someone's feelings am I wrong?
I find it really hard but I have stopped lying even for those reasons.
People really don't like it.
In fact they hate me.
Society is built on lies.
It seems it's the only way people can get on with one another.
So should I go back to being nice ie lying to people?

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Game Playing, Lies, Truth, D/s and lessons learned. - 10/16/2008 2:55:41 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
My Sir had a pet who told the largest lies, that had backstory!  She didn't need to lie, Sir really enjoyed her company and service, but she felt the need to lie, to make herself more than she was and lead us on.  I'm pretty gulible - it didn't occur to me that she was lying!  Sir was the one that clued me in that maybe she wasn't as truthful as she should be.

I still don't understand why she lied. Its not as if she was lying to get out of trouble, or because she was trying to save face.  She lied about things like being able to get reconditioned computers for insanely low prices, and had us all excited that we could get a couple for business and family. Then there were the lies to explain why the deadline to deliver came and went - elaborate stories about sickness, delivery dates and company policies. Who could make this stuff up????

It was pointless to me.    Obviously not to her, but it made no sense to anyone else. *sighs and shakes head*  I really liked her, but its hard to have a relationship with someone when you can't trust what comes out of their mouth.

(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 20
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