Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (Full Version)

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UncleNasty -> Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/16/2008 9:03:16 AM)

I just happened upon this again this morning. I saw it when Paul first came out with it.

I doubt very seriously adoption of the act would have prevented the mess we're currently in. But I believe it would have presented us with a number of superior options to getting out of it.

At the least it presents an opportunity for control of the money supply and issuance of credit to return to the people.

Uncle Nasty




corysub -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/16/2008 1:14:28 PM)

Love to see the link you are talking about...

Thanks..




UncleNasty -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/16/2008 5:33:12 PM)

Boy, don't I feel as red as a smacked ass. Refer to a link and then fail to include it. Let's see if I can find it again.

Apologies.

Uncle Nasty




UncleNasty -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/16/2008 5:34:29 PM)

Well, that was easy enough. Have a look.

Uncle Nasty

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-2755




Musicmystery -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/16/2008 6:11:23 PM)

The Fed and the Treasury are separate for very good reasons. Monetary and fiscal policy are entirely different animals. That's why the Fed is set up to be independent.

This bill is a silly play, and has no prayer.




corysub -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/16/2008 7:48:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

Well, that was easy enough. Have a look.

Uncle Nasty

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-2755


Thanks for the link..appreciate it...  be well..




corysub -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/16/2008 7:52:53 PM)

Hmmmm... very interesting.  Ron Paul sponsored this Bill which has been laying in the box of the House Committee on Financial Services since June of 2007.  Given todays financial turmoil and the key roll being played by the Fed, I doubt this Bill will see the light of day, if it ever had a chance to begin with..Mr. Paul not being a favorite son. 




DomKen -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/16/2008 10:47:11 PM)

Abolishing the fed would cause the entire financial system of the US to collapse. All rhetoric, paranoia and conspiracy ravings aside does anybody happen to know how your paychecks funds go from your employer's bank to your bank? How about how teh check you wrote for the cable bill gets from the cable company's bank to your bank? Anybody think it would be a real good idea to throw that infrastructure away?




Termyn8or -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 7:47:17 AM)

It may seem strange, but it would not be the sky falling. First of all there is a fallback, for congress to take on it's Constitutional duty to issue the money.

Granted, it is a tricky situation to have, but it could be a good thing in the long run. Of course all the options would have to be considered carefully before even thinking about abolishing the fed.

Basically printing money would then be under the jurisdiction of congress. If they were to authorize printing more, the inflation caused thereby would be reflected immediately in inflation rates, rather than having the dollar's "value" propped up by foreign debt.

Credit would be tight, and permanently so, therefore prices would drop. This effect might offset some of the inflation caused when they decide to release more currency into circulation.

But remember one thing, even now that the effect is clouded by debt, add up all the dollars in existence and altogether they represent a certain amount of wealth, and printing more does not increase that wealth. Printing without borrowing would make that effect more noticable.

Interesting to note, if most people knew the ramifications of abolishing the fed they would be against it. What everybody wants is an endless supply of low interest money to spend on junk. The people living beyond their means would suffer sooner.

There would be a drastic change in the patterns of investing, it would be harder to make money with money. The system would be forced to shift back to production. That could take some time. It could happen, because there are at least a million millionaires in this country, and most of them are small businessmen. They would have an incentive to get together and meld their resources into creating larger, more productive facilities.

So far so good.

The problem is that in that type of times, while fortunes will be made, some are going to lose the shirt off their back.

I read that proposal quite some time ago, and IIRC there was not alot in it about just how the transition is to be made. It was too late anyway. The fact is if we were to have abolished the fed about ten years ago, we would just about be *catching our breath. In the current climate given this "crisis" they created to rape the People even more, *the air is quite rarified (*metaphorically).

Yup, years ago we could've taken a hit like that and bounced back and been stronger for it, but now it's too late. Too many people are already losing their assets, and no matter what the long term benefits this plan would have, it is just not a good time. It's like kicking someone when they're down.

So it's a typical human situation, lack of foresight has caused our eventual financial collapse. You notice I said caused. It is coming, the bailout means nothing.

I got a friend to whom I absolutley refuse to lend any money. I don't care what the reason. Would you like to know why ? Because he is the type who would call and say he needs to borrow a hundred TODAY because rent is due. Well you stupid shit, my phone worked yesterday ! Geez. Can't think five minutes into the future. We remain friends, and I don't even plead poverty I just told him one day "Not one penny is ever again going from my hand to your's". He's a good guy you can trust with your life, just not a dollar. And in this case he's not really untrustworthy, just totally in the dark when it comes to finances. He needs to be one of those guys who just signs their paycheck over to his olady and says like give him a hundred to get through the week. Realize though, that a smart olady will make sure to keep an extra fifty around for when he runs out of money before payday. Then GASP ! he might have to use the bank card. If that happens you know the withdrawal will never get written in the ledger.

That is so very close to the way I think of the government when it comes to money it is scary. Almost exactly the same. The major difference is that my friend has some talents and redeeming qualities, so far I have yet to see that in the government.

Like Obama said, no matter who you vote for "To fix the medical (not quite verbatim) first you have to fix Washington". In other words, taking the power of the fed and handing it carte blanche to congress does not sit well with me. This is due to their proven track record of greed and corruption. I know it's bad now, but don't ever think it can't get worse.

T




Musicmystery -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 7:55:16 AM)

quote:

Basically printing money would then be under the jurisdiction of congress.


It is now---THEY created the Fed, and they could dissolve it.

They created it, wisely, as politically independent from fiscal policy, and did so quite deliberately.

Compare independence of Central Banks and inflation rates, for example. The higher the independence, the lower inflation.




Termyn8or -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 8:14:48 AM)

Yes it was made semi-automanous(sp) on purpose, but for what purpose ? Don't think too much on that one, might make something bleed.

Now why can't the fed be audited ? They never have been you know. Their internal audits amount to nothing more than cursory reviews of day to day expenses etc., they have never been subject to a real audit. Care to speculate on why ? Don't you think that the way the fed operates and what they do in this society would demand a full accounting of all activities ?

T




pahunkboy -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 8:50:29 AM)

well it happens.  A new law -entity everything stars out fine.

then special favors, creap in.  The tax code comes to mind.  We "simplified" it under Reagan. And for a while, it truly was simple. So each year- new exceptions.  Apply this to regs, bonusses on nearly every program there is.

Then one day the system is back where it started from... in need of major reform. Of course when they do, "it will never happen again"...  that is...until we forget history and poof there it is.


Now as to friends wanting money.

This comes in other ways too.   Can I borrow some cigarretts, gas, coffee, can I have a ride. Could you do this errand for me.

and the- perrennial "my life is a disaster, I want to suffer and whine and feel sad, and if you dont suffer with me, then you are not my real freind" "^drains your time^

There is trade off no doubt- and I dont keep tit for tat.    But in the end a freindship must be reciprical to last....    my 2 cents




Musicmystery -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 11:18:02 AM)

quote:

but for what purpose ?


Asked and answered.




DomKen -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 11:34:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Now why can't the fed be audited ? They never have been you know. Their internal audits amount to nothing more than cursory reviews of day to day expenses etc., they have never been subject to a real audit. Care to speculate on why ? Don't you think that the way the fed operates and what they do in this society would demand a full accounting of all activities ?

You really have to stop reading the conspiracy sites and do your own research. The Federal Reserve is audited by the GAO and private auditing companies on a regular basis.




Termyn8or -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 5:58:29 PM)

Well DK I did just that. It irks me when supposed patriots go nuthead.

OK there have been audits, however the are not full audits. There are certain things they do not look at, and many times the results are reported to the board of governors.

So insert the word REAL before the word audit like I did and we are now in a gray area. I mean a FULL and complete audit like the one called for a while back by Ron Paul.

One thing I found interesting, and this was from a site that debunked the statement that they have never been audited, is that the neither GAO, nor nobody audits the fed's transactions with foreign banks. Those are excluded, as are a few other things.

And that did not come from the "crackpots".

T




Musicmystery -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 6:02:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Well DK I did just that. It irks me when supposed patriots go nuthead.

OK there have been audits, however the are not full audits. There are certain things they do not look at, and many times the results are reported to the board of governors.

So insert the word REAL before the word audit like I did and we are now in a gray area. I mean a FULL and complete audit like the one called for a while back by Ron Paul.

One thing I found interesting, and this was from a site that debunked the statement that they have never been audited, is that the neither GAO, nor nobody audits the fed's transactions with foreign banks. Those are excluded, as are a few other things.

And that did not come from the "crackpots".

T


Evidence?

And Ken is right---you claimed no one audited the Fed. Now it's insufficiently audited....based on an unnamed site.

As much as I love the Internet, there are times I wonder if it contributes to knowledge or ignorance.




Termyn8or -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 6:17:40 PM)

"
The Government Accounting Office does not have complete access to all aspects of the Federal Reserve System.  The law excludes the following areas from GAO inspections (31 USCA §714):                                 (1) transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a                                  foreign country, or nonprivate international financing organization;
                                (2) deliberations, decisions, or actions on monetary policy matters,                                  including discount window operations, reserves of member banks,                                  securities credit, interest on deposits, open market operations;
                                (3) transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open                                  Market Committee; or
                                (4) a part of a discussion or communication among or between                                  members of the Board of Governors and officers and employees of                                  the Federal Reserve System related to items.   "

From :

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty6.html

T




DomKen -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 8:36:34 PM)

Got quibbles with the effectiveness of the audits? Fine. Present the evidence that the combined GAO and private auditors don't cover something and then we can discuss it but your original claim was quite simply wrong.




Musicmystery -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 8:40:36 PM)

The GAO is damn good.

It was created by Congress specifically to provide accurate, non-partisan data.

Those folks take that charge seriously.






Termyn8or -> RE: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (10/17/2008 9:13:03 PM)

DK I have already admitted the error, I am not the type to grovel.

The scope of the audits is now what I woud take exception to, if you or I would be audited, every penny would need to be counted.

Where it says 31 USCA S714 appears to be cite to law. The link points to cornell.dot edu. Is Cornall teaching their students wrong ? Or would findlaw dot com be a better alternative ?

Now Mus, about the GAO being good, I seem to remember some money they couldn't find. What happened to it ?

More later. As I said I will stand corrected, but not 100% corrected. If you can't handle that sorry, you must be a power hungry ............ wait a minute, I should perv yall's prfiles before saying that.

Got people, Friday night. I WILL be back. As I said I am quite unhappy with people who distort the truth, as we know the mass media does it, but when those who oppose the mass media do the same it just burns me up.

More later.

T




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