RE: ritual murder in South Africa

RE: ritual murder in South Africa (Full Version)

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NumberSix -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:46:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Come on people - post! Or its more of Joe the plonker plumber - think about it; do you want that to happen? Now, argue for heaven's sake! E

MadAxeman -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:48:49 PM)
*Slayer rock like Cliffy on Wincarnis*

Musicmystery -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:48:54 PM)
quote: Viv Stanshall was a fookn gawd. There's your culture right there. If this was meant for me, wrong side of the pond.

Jeffff -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:49:40 PM)
It used to be traditional to bleed people to rid them of the evil humors too. Tradition can be bullshit like anything else and ritual murder is not acceptable in my culture! Ritual beatings on the other hand................. Bwana Jeff

Musicmystery -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:50:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NumberSix quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Come on people - post! Or its more of Joe the plonker plumber - think about it; do you want that to happen? Now, argue for heaven's sake! E Really, it's too bad McCain already decided to pick Sarah before he met Joe.

giveeverything -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:52:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Really, it's too bad McCain already decided to pick Sarah before he met Joe. Or too bad he met Cindy before he met Joe. I mean, it all seems a little homeoerotic. [;)]

marieToo -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:52:58 PM)
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't view this as a cultural tradition, maybe a cultural belief (the body parts bring good luck or whatever), but tradition, to me, implies that this is an acceptable practice over there. Since there are penalties for it, that makes it a crime. Just cuz the cops are too chicken shiite to do something about it, doesn't make it acceptable as a "tradition" of their culture.

LadyEllen -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:53:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything It's not clear from what you posted here.... but isn't this practice also illegal in Africa. It doesn't sound like a mainstream practice so I'm not sure the purphose of this argument except to say that multi-culturalism is bad. For myself, I love living in a pluralistic society. It doesn't mean everything "old" and "ancient" is good or everything "new" is bad. It doesn't mean that those in the minority shouldn't have the rights to practice their "legal" activities even if they are odd or obscure nor that they should be forced to adapt to every and all of the mainstreams practice. Mutli-culturalism is much more complex than you're making it out to be. Hey - I love curry, I get on with the takeaway guys too. But I hardly regard that as the subtle mixing of cultures that seems to be the argument for the advantageous process of multi-culturalism. I doubt they'd come round for our halloween party wearing jeans just as much as I'd likely not go to the Mosque in a hijab with them. E

mefisto69 -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:54:46 PM)
I am NOT giving up my prized aureolea collection

giveeverything -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:56:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Hey - I love curry, I get on with the takeaway guys too. But I hardly regard that as the subtle mixing of cultures that seems to be the argument for the advantageous process of multi-culturalism. I doubt they'd come round for our halloween party wearing jeans just as much as I'd likely not go to the Mosque in a hijab with them. E Exchanging food (no matter how much more glorious their food is) is not my idea of multi-culturalism either. I just wanted to make that clear. I prefer the term pluralistic society over multi-cultural. For me it implies the multi-facited aspect of the people who share the same space. To reeterate, though, discussing illegal activities as a sign of the multi-cultural times is a bit disengenous and I'm not sure of the intent behind it. But that's me.

marieToo -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:57:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mefisto69 I am NOT giving up my prized aureolea collection Oh dear god!

LadyEllen -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:57:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't view this as a cultural tradition, maybe a cultural belief (the body parts bring good luck or whatever), but tradition, to me, implies that this is an acceptable practice over there. Since there are penalties for it, that makes it a crime. Just cuz the cops are too chicken shiite to do something about it, doesn't make it acceptable as a "tradition" of their culture. The impression I got was that it pretty acceptable for those wanting the magical effects, but not too acceptable for those preyed upon, and so widely believed in that the police are fearful of being cursed if they intervene. It wasnt mentioned, but I would expect this to be a very old tradition - across all of humanity, including us in former years - only outlawed at all under the old white ruled South Africa. Which makes the whole thing even more interesting for this particular debate. E

NumberSix -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 5:58:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mefisto69 I am NOT giving up my prized aureolea collection You will be the first to die................ 6 (here's a hint: spell nipple right......the new world order)

MadAxeman -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 6:03:12 PM)
I never meant that enjoying the food of other cultures was being multi-culturist or open to culture. It was shorthand and counterpoint to that idea. Sheesh, maybe I should use bigger letters and shorter words. Other cultures rub up against ours and the new culture is found amongst the dust left beneath. There is danger in over simplifying and also in making the whole concept too complex and informed by the past.

LadyEllen -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 6:09:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadAxeman I never meant that enjoying the food of other cultures was being multi-culturist or open to culture. It was shorthand and counterpoint to that idea. Sheesh, maybe I should use bigger letters and shorter words. Other cultures rub up against ours and the new culture is found amongst the dust left beneath. There is danger in over simplifying and also in making the whole concept too complex and informed by the past. Yes, I can see that cultures might fuse and produce a new one. But how is that ever going to happen when we insist that all groups' cultures should be retained, promoted and celebrated (except ours, notably)? This is important - we cant ever move on from where we are now (isolated pockets of different cultures) to where you seem to be saying we ought to be, if we continue with the current policies - and these same policies must hold practices that we believe to be insupportable, criminal even, to be valid cultural expression, any attack on which is wrong in itself - unless they are to undermine themselves in the very Victorian attitudes towards other cultures that they seek to counter. E

kittinSol -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 6:48:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But how is that ever going to happen when we insist that all groups' cultures should be retained, promoted and celebrated (except ours, notably)? I keep on hearing that sort of argument everywhere, but I've yet to see any kind of proof of it. How is 'our' culture not being celebrated, promoted, and retained? Are you worried that it's on the brink of extinction? If it's doomed to die, then let it be. If it is loved enough, it will be perpetuated as it should be. Cultures aren't big, monolithic, solid things. They are fluid and they evolve, with a near organic quality. They take from each other and they change: perhaps you took an extreme example of a cultural oddity to make your point that you're worried about the death of something... I feel that way sometimes, when I think of Nirvana and have to listen to fucking Green Day.

LadyEllen -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 6:53:37 PM)
Oh I dont think our culture (whatever it might be) is threatened KS - the very lack of any real cultural mixing promoted by the multi-cultural model we have is seeing to that for us as much as it is for the other cultures here. But there is a distinct lack of two way "cultural awareness education" (for want of a better expression) - we're told endlessly about the greatness of our "guest cultures" but they are rarely it seems made aware of our culture (whatever it might be) And (whatever it might be) is important here - because the indigenous peoples have very much the sense that they have no culture - and thats an odd thing, all in all, in a country where cultural diversity is being celebrated. That said, whatever it might be, I would welcome the injection of some other cultural influences to what it seems to be - consumerism and little else. E

MadAxeman -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 6:55:44 PM)
Fair point LE. Who decides what is the good that is kept, and the crap that is lost? Without doubt whatever is banned or expunged, will become a cause celebre and secret societies will prolong it's influence. *Rickets anyone?* *Green Day, will they ever ripen?*

kittinSol -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 6:57:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen That said, whatever it might be, I would welcome the injection of some other cultural influences to what it seems to be - consumerism and little else. You say this now; but wait until I force feed you escargots.

GreedyTop -> RE: ritual murder in South Africa (10/17/2008 7:00:24 PM)
feed me, KS!! I love snails!!

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