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Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:07:56 PM   
MysticsLily


Posts: 79
Joined: 5/23/2008
Status: offline 		Hello my friends, its been a while since I've posted.  I am exhausted emotionally and spiritually and need some feedback from those willing to give honest opinion. 
 
Background.  I have a slave girl (I'll call her j) who has been with me living in my household for 3 months as a slave to myself and my partner.  (Yes, we had a "courting" time and a get to know each other period.  No, we are not online we are real time.  No I am not inexperienced, I have been a Mistress for 14 years.  Yes, she is a newbie but told us she had experience.) 
 
My partner and I are very spiritual and when it occured to us that our new slave has some serious emotional problems that were not disclosed until we discovered them after she moved in, we pulled up our "skirts" and were very ready to help her achieve the healing she claims she wants.
 
Our fundamental problem - J is a negative person.  I'm not saying she's a glass half empty person - I'm saying she thrives on misery.  Give her an assignment to find one thing she's grateful for and she'll find a way to spend 3 pages on her miserable past and why she's so unhappy.  Tell her to find something beautiful - just one thing, and the task defeats her completely.  She has a very low self esteem and a low self worth and we have worked hard over the last few months to show her that as a person she has intrinsic value and that we chose her because we saw the positive beautiful things about her.  I am an empath and I am starting to feel like I'm being fed on by a cold, clingy leech.  I care very deeply for this girl . . . I love her and want to honor my commitment to her by being a good Mistress.  But I am spent and using a great deal of my personal energy just to keep myself blocked so that she can't drain me further.  There is a deep level of selfishness imbedded in her and I often feel that I am more mother than Mistress - dealing with daily whining and tantrums and manipulative guilt trips.
 
I've gotten plenty of feedback that I am wasting my time.  But I do not believe any human being is a waste of time.  I made a commitment to J, I care deeply for her, and I want to help her.  I am seeking concrete tools to use to teach her how to lift her self out of her comfortable misery and seek the unfamiliar path that will lead to healing and joy.  I want to share the beauty of my world with her and see the dawning of understanding in her eyes as she looks up at the sky and sees something beautiful. 
 
I appreciate any feedback and although I know I will get quite a few quit wasting your time responses.  Again, I am the bondmaiden of a Celtic Dominant.  Honor is part of our moral code and abandoning her would go against that which makes me who I am. 
 
Lily

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Lori Petty in Tank Girl

I share my life with she who has set me on fire, Mistress Mystic and we are HouseoftheMystic

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:20:39 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		My experience of trying to help similar people in the past tells me that you cant help anyone that doesnt want to help themselves.

The task in hand really, is to find out how to make them want to help themselves.

And thats a difficult one, because people are so very variable.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to MysticsLily)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:26:10 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		We are all creatures of darkness and light, all with our demons and our avatars.  Choosing upon which to focus and sometimes transmuting the darkness to light, I find helps me when I am in a negative frame.  Learn to master those demons, turn them into treasures, assets rather than liabilities.  So,maybe next time she comes up with a negative, you could ask her how that could become a positive? 
  Davan
 

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:27:06 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		You are trying to make Scrooge turn into Pollyanna. 
She gets secondary gain with her negativity.  Until she decides it isn’t worth it and wants to be different for herself, there will be no transformation..  She is happy in her misery and sucking you in to her drama. 
We can’t change other people, we can only change the way we react to them.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to MysticsLily)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:30:47 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Why does she behave that way?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to catize)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:37:27 PM   
housemouse61


Posts: 60
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline 		Sounds to me like psychotherapy and counseling may be in order here; and possibly medication.  It appears from Your post that the girl suffers from severe depression.  That is not something a layperson can effectively help her deal with on their own.

But, as LadyEllen advised, Your girl must first want, accept and use the help offered or it is all for naught.  She has to be willing to fix herself before You can make a positive influence on her outlook.

Peace favor and blessed be,

nikki
Property of Cruel Desires



(in reply to MysticsLily)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:37:44 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Why does she behave that way?


 
Because it works for her. 


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:46:39 PM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline 		I was going to "just leave" a few messages cause they are lengthy in your cmail, but after reading your profile I decided I should let you know...            I am doing so. 

< Message edited by RealSub58 -- 10/17/2008 7:04:15 PM >

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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:47:25 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Without knowing her, and only having the gist of your OP, it sounds as if she's more stubborn than negative. 

To say that she couldn't find a single thing that she can be grateful for sounds more like she just doesn't want to admit to it, rather than she can't think of one.

I really don't have much to offer here, but wondered how old she is.   And I'm thinking maybe a little bit of tough love may be in order, rather than meds or therapy.  Of course, it's hard to say without knowing her, but going on the post, it sounds more like brat syndrome than anything else.  And it sounds as if she is in control of the expression of it as well, since it doesn't seem like you knew this about her before you took her in.   That would lead me to think that she's capable of turning it on or off at will.  And if that's the case, it really isn't genuine.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to MysticsLily)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 6:56:39 PM   
MysticsLily


Posts: 79
Joined: 5/23/2008
Status: offline 		thanks so far to all who have weighed in. 

j is 35. 

I am reading and absorbing every opinion and am thankful for all the feedback given. 

Those who wish to write me privately are welcome to do so - I welcome those who have more private experience or words of wisdom.

Lily

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Lori Petty in Tank Girl

I share my life with she who has set me on fire, Mistress Mystic and we are HouseoftheMystic


(in reply to marieToo)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:04:16 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		You did not answer my question.  Is that because you do not know the answer?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MysticsLily)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:14:25 PM   
BeIgnited


Posts: 191
Joined: 6/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Sounds to me like psychotherapy and counseling may be in order here; and possibly medication. It appears from Your post that the girl suffers from severe depression. That is not something a layperson can effectively help her deal with on their own.


I second this.

From my own experience with severe depression, her experience sounds very familiar. Get her into therapy. Help her find a good therapist. Consider medication. Anti-depressants do not work for everyone, but they were the best thing I ever did for myself.

(in reply to housemouse61)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:15:13 PM   
MysticsLily


Posts: 79
Joined: 5/23/2008
Status: offline 		redmagic:  I apologize, I didn't intentionally ignore your question.  I believe that the fundamental problem is an extreme lack of self-esteem that was worsened by a small town childhood, poor relationship skills, a very bad divorce, and gender dysphoria.  (She is a transgender on hormones and is still experiencing struggle with that)  She also has a problem with telling the truth that I think stems from her fears of rejection and her fear that she has no worth.  I think she has become so comfortable with her own misery that she is terrified to be anything else.  I think she suffers from "I hate me, why would anyone else love me."

Lily

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Lori Petty in Tank Girl

I share my life with she who has set me on fire, Mistress Mystic and we are HouseoftheMystic


(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:17:21 PM   
PassionateTulip


Posts: 40
Joined: 5/15/2007
Status: offline 		Wow... How can I begin here? This sounds so much like my experience with my new husband, it's scary. The first thing I have to say is, stay by her side. You don't want to hear that you should leave, so how would me telling you to, help any bit? Besides, I, also, cannot turn and walk away, and telling you to do so is hypocrytical.

My husband was sweet, loving and perfect when I met him... Okay, so no one is perfect but he seemed well off emotionally, stable and all. Then as our relationship progressed, and the deeper in love we fell, the more poured out of his broken soul. He's hurting, and has been hurting for quite some time. He deals with pain by getting angry so as to push those he loves away because of a deep rooted fear of hurting them. He does not realize that by doing so he hurts us more than anything else.

Like I said... stand by her. Look her in the eyes, and say that you love her. Tell her you know there will be rough days, and even horrid days, but that she is yours, and that will not change. Tell her that her mindset will change, however, because it is what you desire. You desire her to be happy, amidst a happy household. You require this change for everyone in the household's sanity. Be honest. Tell her it is tearing you apart, taking all your strength and energy. When she starts to drain you, tell her firmly "no" and "enough".... Tell her if she needs time to let it out.... to go punch a punching bag or something, then tell her you can spank her (if that sort of thing helps her release energy, if not... then anything that works, do it)... Then tell her.... "Smile for me" (it works EVERY time... especially if you say it firmly with a straight face - hey it made you smile here didn't it? Trust me...)

Anyway, this is a step forward at least.... and she will hopefully, over time, learn how to release all the old sadness built up inside her. Yes, at the end of the day it is her choice, and remember that. Remember when she is in a mood... that as much as you will stand by her, that you need to be strong, and retain your energy for building up her happiness rather than being the one she lays her sadness into for safe keeping.

(in reply to MysticsLily)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:21:56 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		You have tried postitive... now it might be time for correction and structure.  While counseling might help... that can take some time.  You need firm boundries and structure that tells her exactly what will happen if she does such and such.  You have to find a way to temper her actions and reactions until you can get to the root of her problems.  I would make her sign a contract to do this and let her know that you are not going to deal with things going her way anymore.  You have tried to help and she controls it all and it is time for that to change.  She may rebel or leave... but you know... you sure would get to that quicker than trying for six more months and getting no where becasue she knows how to work it and has been working it most her life most likely, only to end up in the same place.

Her self talk is all backwards.  I would have her logging any negative thoughts.  She may do nothing else for a while, but you have to know what she thinks.  Then start teaching her to reject the negative thoughts with reward systems and corrective systems.  But in this, early on, sometimes they freeze up.  Like you mentioned her not being able to come up with something positive.  She may be emotionally stuck when put on the spot.  You have to figure out what she responds to and that can be trial and error.

It took a long time to get her where she is in how she thinks and a lot of it could have started in childhood.  It won't change over night.  When she has done good, she will need nurturing approval and recognition.  When she has done bad, no explainations because you have explained it all to her already... and knows what is expected.  She is acting like a um and in ways will need to be treated like a um at least for a time.  You will burn yourself out talking things through with her.  You need set rules and structure on paper that she can read or copy or whatever to get it imprinted into her brain.  It has to hurt.

Personally... I wouldn't do it... but if you are committed to this... it is going to take a lot of work.  I ran a women's shelter of 36 women typically.  Most were young and wounded and very similar.  I had to go tough love all the way, while nurturing, being mom, grandmama and friend, but also director who will kick your ass if you don't do what you are told.  I made sure the bonds of sisterhood basically and for a lack of a better word were in place and then we worked on the other stuff.  They did well, they earned nights out without losing their place.  They did their chores... they didn't have me and the others upset with them and if they didn't do their chores, they got double the chores the next day or booted out.  We had to make rules and no exceptions, no allowences except for illness or something reasonable, but not all the time.

Her reaction to this structure may tell all.  I found most didn't do anything unless forced and it is like everyone has said, if she doesn't want to change, nothing you do can bring it about.  You will only burn out.  That is why I suggest the contract.  Good luck with this.

(in reply to marieToo)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:29:30 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		OK. Here's the story.

I was married for years to (literally) the girl from next door. We'd been together since school, had kids et al. But something wasnt right with me - curiously, I never really ever knew conciously what it was - but it all came out eventually and stuff had to happen once it was clear what had to happen.

It nearly killed me what I did to my wife with what I had to do. Imagine the hurt I caused her. Imagine on top the hurt to our kids I thought I had caused. I viewed it as a breach of my word and bond to have to go off and do this. It made me feel like I deserved to die for it.

I had it all prepared. A good plan, well researched with a high success rate. Farewell apologies all written, the works.

Do you know why I'm still here? Because although I was quite ready to die for the evil I'd done, it occurred to me that death was far too merciful for the sort of scum I was. The real punishment would be to live on with the pain inside me.

It was a long slow climb out of that, but reaching that point was important. It made me deal with it all, because no one can live with that level of guilt and personal pain. I found counselling pretty useless and meds not worthwhile at all for anything other than making me sleep - but what worked for me once I'd reached the end point of my former way of thinking was CBT (no, not that kind!) in the form of self help books (the only self help books I ever found to work) aimed at building self esteem.

Six years on, I'm truly me. Confident, (far more so than ever before), determined and going somewhere in a way that I never was before.

Quite how this helps if it does I dont know, but hopefully it might

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:35:18 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with Lockit, and would add the following.

Just because she says something negative is no reason for you to kneejerk say something positive or "empathize" by dragging yourself down.  Realize that's "just her" and keep it breezy.  "Oh, yes, we're all about to die, thanks for reminding me, I need to buy the funeral plots today."  Then go about your business.  You're the parent.  You can't be affected or manipulated by her attempts to push your buttons.  You are the captain of the ship, and by God it's heading in the right direction no matter what.

Don't get caught up in the symptoms.  You need to address the cause, or you will be playing whack-a-mole with no chance of success.  Suppose she's a heavy smoker, and you don't like cigarettes.  Would you say something (positive or negative) every time she lit up?  Hell no.  It would piss her off and burn you out.  You'd either make a rule that she could only smoke outside, or decide that you weren't going to let smoking bother you any more.  Same two choices here.  Either every time she says something negative she gets alone time, or you just let it roll like water off your ducky back.  Ignore the words.  Demonstrate through structure and action that she is valuable, and let her decide if she will step up.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:42:45 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Since this reminds me of...welll....me 4 years ago, I have a few things to consider.

  • Your going to continue to be a Mother to this girl and not a Mistress. If your not ok with that, then I don't suggest investing the time. She's not someone who is in a place in her life to be the kind of slave that brings a positive influence to your life. She will be a negative drain on you and that's something Mothers put up with for the sake of children they love.
  • This is something you will have to continue to endure until she decides she wants to change, whenever that may be.
  • Nobody on the Internet is going to be able to give you any concrete tools to fix her. You can't fix her. You can be supportive and be positive and continue to be a positive influence on her life, but unfortunately it will probably come down to her having a powerful epiphany brought on by unknown random catalysts that set her on a path where she puts effort into changing. She will have to become self aware of who is she and what effect her behavior has on the world around her before any change will happen.


_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MysticsLily)
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RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:46:25 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I would like to add... we had a high success rate in the programs and many of these ladies who didn't stand a chance in life... went out and created some pretty good futures.  Some we couldn't help because they didnt stay long enough.  They resisted at first... but came to welcome the structure and counted on it.  Soon there was laughter filling that place and bonds created between them.  They come in scared and testing you... you make them safe and then go tough love and all I can say is it works.

I love how RedMagic worded things... That is exactly how I see it.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Helping negative people - 10/17/2008 7:50:01 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Mistress Lily:
 
Greetings, and best wishes to you.   I agree with the previous statement about self hatred.    I have suffered from that beast most of my life.
The lifestyle help me overcome some of these feelings.
She is insecure, and needs constant feedback from you because she does not understand how she is to react to you.  
Low self esteme is part of the bipolar disorder.   Counseling would defenitely help her, but there is a chance that she may be using this to control her life since she has always been by herself.  Everything we do now is all about control.
I hope this helps.

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to MysticsLily)
Profile   Post #: 20
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