RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill

RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (Full Version)

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JustDarkness -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:14:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nikolette JustDarkness: Speak for yourself. I'm a registered Libertarian. That's not my view of how I ought to interact with the government even though I DO qualify for certain handouts and grants. Who do you think I speak for..besides myself on here? lol >.That's not my view << a view has nothing to do with how a goverment really acts I guess. It is just a wish

Raechard -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:15:54 AM)
Probably zero, I assume having death insurance is illegal and so the expense would fall to the families.

kittinSol -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:17:14 AM)
You'd be surprised... the (compulsory, private) health insurance system is comprehensive beyond belief in Switzerland. Might well include death assistance: it all depends on the canton anyway, as it's a federal state.

LadyEllen -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:19:26 AM)
Hmmm. Well I should have thought any actuary would be a little reluctant to provide death cover or cover for the repatriation of person or body, for someone terminally ill and taking a trip to Switzerland, but I might be wrong E

Raechard -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:20:46 AM)
The family in question was British so this is what I'm basing my response on. Death insurance as a product isn't a very lucrative option for the companies in question since most people buying the product would have the act in mind.

kittinSol -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:22:18 AM)
Crap, this is morbid [X(] .

JustDarkness -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:24:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Totally apples to oranges. Unemployment benefits, overall, help the economy by preventing more homeless cases, etc. Whether or not assisted suicide is legal, doesn't affect the economy the way unemployment or disability benefits do. Personally I haven't formed a solid opinion on these kinds of assisted suicides but at the outset I'm uncomfortable with the idea. As for assisted suicides for the terminally ill, I'm a supporter of it. But I'm still not sure how this relates to unemployment benefits. Wel the apples to oranges...( <<<Often used when people disagree ;) ) The Goverement is just not about the financial and laws...also health and environment.. so that includes lives of their population. They give you things when you are in need...so they can demand also things. Does it mean we let people also use hugh amounts of drugs/alcohol..because they choose too (ofcourse that can bring risks to others too, not always btw). If you allow peolpe to choose death...then we need to allow people also to abuse themselfs....and not help them. It is difficult for goverments to decide..so they have strict rules...which count for big groups..not the individual.

Raechard -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:29:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Crap, this is morbid [X(] . [sm=cactus.gif] Humm....yea Have you noticed how they named Zebra crossing zebra crossings because they are black and white but then someone tried to continue the approach with pelican crossings even though no one knows what a pelican crossing looks like because it is such a rare event for a pelican to cross the road.[8\|]

NorthernGent -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:31:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Personally, I dont see it as the business of any state to interfere with someone's considered and avowed intent to kill themself The state came into existence out of acknowledgement that when left to our own devices, we can be a danger to ourselves and others. Whether or not state interference is a hinderance or a help, is open to debate, but a good case can be put forward to suggest that state interference in our lives, is necessary. The balance between civil liberties and government regulation is a difficult one to achieve, and one that can't possibly please all of the people all of the time; but I'm confident that we haven't reached the evolutionary point required to underpin a libertarian approach to government. In terms of the lad in question, well, on balance, I believe he should live by the law of this land, or take his approach to life elsewhere; which, of course, he has, and is more than entitled to so do.

JustDarkness -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:32:49 AM)
NG why didn't you post earlier. You say it so much better then me..lol

kittinSol -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:33:26 AM)
Yeah but are zebra stripes white on black or black on white, or neither?

Raechard -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:37:46 AM)
Most ones I've seen are black and black due to poor road maintenance. While the only wild zebra crossings I've seen are on BBC big cat diaries and they are black white and red.[8\|]

JustDarkness -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:39:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Yeah but are zebra stripes white on black or black on white, or neither? lol quote: The answer to this question comes down to perspective. Many zoologists would say that a zebra is white because its stripes end towards the belly and the belly is mostly white. Others would say that a zebra is black because if you shaved all the fur off a zebra the skin is mostly black. So it really depends on how you want to look at it. funny to look up anyway :P

LadyEllen -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:46:28 AM)
State interference in life has to be limited to my effects on others alone; such that I am not adversely affecting another through my actions, I dont see what business the state has to criminalise or limit my actions otherwise? And as for the collective benefits we all derive from the state in terms of education, healthcare et al - that in no way gives the state any rights over my actions except as per the above - these collective benefits are a quid pro quo in themselves (I pay my taxes for them) at one end of the argument, or they are reciprocal agreements reached between all of us at the other end, to look after one another for which we enact a state for the administration thereof. E

TheHeretic -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:55:24 AM)
It's a no-brainer, LadyE. A simple question of who is sovereign over the body and life of an individual. This young man's case certainly lies in the uncomfortable shadows and grey of could've, should've, but our feelings and best intentions don't override that. And yes, it's a damn shame.

JustDarkness -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 7:58:56 AM)
Gladly we have a law...that the body is ours and the goverment can't judge about it..in life and in death. Suicide i snot a "big problem here" the "assisted" part is looked intot hough..even though accepted. The problem is ässisted"can have many reasons...and therefor I am glad the goverment..has such strict laws here. Till now..there were not many issues when a docter assisted..

PanthersMom -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 8:01:49 AM)
to quote Nikolette: "Though at the end of the day, I say even the mentally ill should have a right to choose, even if medication may alter their state of mind to something that's more socially acceptable." i think in the end it's not whether the society accepts the medicated state of the mentally ill person, but does the person themselves? can they live with themselves even in this artificial state that may require medication for the rest of their lives to maintain? when it comes right down to it, we're all alone in our little brains here, and god only knows what's going on in there during the quiet moments when it's just us and our thoughts. it's those moments that truly test the resolve of a suicidal person, when you're left debating existence with yourself. too much emphasis is plced on what is socially acceptable when it's the individual's acceptance of the situation that matters. PM

Nikolette -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 3:15:03 PM)
Just Darkness: You highlighted the wrong portion I think? "That's not my view", was followed by "of how I ought to interact...." the government isn't set up with many of my political views in mind, true. That's why I only referred to how I am when I interact with it. Not how it acts toward me. Two wrongs don't make a right and just bleed the system dry. And when I said speak for yourself, it was because you took what I said and retorted about how people say things like that but then live differently. I'm wholly aware that you can actually only speak for yourself. The point was.... yanno.... that I don't do that as implied by your broad statement. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Luckily (lucky for my peace of mind) my point of view has enough room in the world for us all to get along. .... PanthersMom: I'm in agreement that there should be focus on what is manageable for the individual involved. Medication is a solution for some, but it's not accepted by all, or even provides comfort for all mental illnesses. And many people (specifically those who are bipolar) on mood stabilizing drugs often feel like the pills have killed them inside anyway, so suicide can be an option when they are on a low swing. So I also advocate for alternatives to traditional medication being suggested to those people who disagree with taking medication. And, again there never seems to be a simple solution life just varies too much for that.

tweedydaddy -> RE: assisted suicide - no longer just for the terminally ill (10/18/2008 3:47:11 PM)
Sometimes the time it takes to adjust takes longer than some people can bear. We all have the decision to go on, or not. I have a lot of friends who have decided to go on, and more than a few who didn't. I respect both.

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