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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/18/2008 7:16:16 PM

kittinSol

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Is this meaningless extrapolation night here tonight or something? My initial comment was that whether the death penalty costs more or less than a life prison term shouldn't come into the equation when one is weighing the pros and cons of it. Focus, guys (and girls)!

Trying not to flirt

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/18/2008 7:23:25 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Well, I thought you were also meaning injustice in a more general level as well, like those injustices that lead people into such situations that greatly enhance their odds to even be in that situation. As in everything else, and including the death part.

It's all money. Only the poor rob convenience stores or steal car stereos that eventually lead to violent confrontations. Most street drug peddlers are poor or were poor before embracing illegal acts.

Anyway, I don't think the government should have the right to kill anymore either, I did even a couple years ago, but my distrust of government, and their repeated showings over the years, not to be capable of handling such power, leads me against it.

When an extrapolation is intelligent, like the one above, it's wondeful. I agree with what you write, and I'm actually delighted that the government's fuckups have led you to revise your opinion when it comes to capital punishment. Kudos to you.

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/18/2008 7:31:59 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

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Why shouldn't it come down to the difference in monetary pricetag, kitten? Properly implimented, a death penalty would cost about $0.36 - the cost of a bullet.

But that is neither here nor there, and I'm playing Devil's Advocate on that one at the moment.

Ken, I don't see where the ideas presented in that particular video have to be - or even necessarily need to be - considered Randian. While Rand proposed similar ideas, that doesn't make those ideas automatically bad, nor does it make them necessarily unworkable. Not all of Marx's ideas were inherantly evil or wrong, either. They were simply plagued with the one thing that ALL human systems have in common - they were implimented By Humans, and therefore suceptible to the human frailty of corruptability. I've said before and I'll say again - those who most Desire power over others are usually those who are least suited to Weilding that power.

Personal Responcibility. That is the crux of things. Taking responcibility for your own life, your own actions, your own ideas and thoughts - and Not passing the buck along to the media, or the government, or the church, or whothehellever else happens to be convenient to foist them off on. Being willing to kill your own snakes, as one of my formers put it - ie, relying only on yourself to fix your problems, settle your disputes and resolve your conflicts with the rest of humanity, instead of abrogating that responcibility onto someone else, even an elected official, and then whining when it's not solved the way you would have prefered. (And before anyone decides to go into a tizzy and get their panties in a wad, "you" is Generic here.)

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/18/2008 7:49:21 PM

bestbabync

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my thoughts on this philosophy is "live and let live". to me this is real liberalism.........the wars would end and if the US would adopt this thought our country would really believed to be the peacekeepers of the world.........crime would not pay.......we would all be empowered to work hard and make our own success and fortune........we would truly have our freedom!

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< Message edited by bestbabync -- 10/18/2008 7:50:38 PM >

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/18/2008 7:59:05 PM

NeedToUseYou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I agree with what you write

, we agree, we agree, I knew it would happen some day. LOL. Now, just 10000 other things to work on, and we'd be in complete unison.

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/18/2008 8:49:12 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
Ken, I don't see where the ideas presented in that particular video have to be - or even necessarily need to be - considered Randian.

You need to examine the host site more closely. I happened to know who this was simply from the addy but the sites front page will be illuminating.

www.isil.org

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/18/2008 9:02:55 PM

UncleNasty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I firmly believe everyone is equal....

I have to call bullshit on that one DK. You insult people way too frequently for that to fly. Berne would have put you solidly in the "I'm OK, You're not OK" camp.

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/18/2008 10:39:01 PM

rexrgisformidoni

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I think they should execute more people. Rapists, child molesters, big time dope dealers. one appeal, then one month.

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/19/2008 4:27:30 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

my thoughts on this philosophy is "live and let live". to me this is real liberalism.........the wars would end and if the US would adopt this thought our country would really believed to be the peacekeepers of the world

'Live and let live' suits me down to the ground in as far as it is possible without descending into chaos.

I like your man Chomsky; I'd choose him above all others were I offered 30 minutes in the company of anyone past or present. I believe his understanding of government control and coercion, particularly through misinformation, is second to none. Yet I can't get my head around this: he understands the world so well, but arrives at a solution that appears to be totally out of step with human behaviour.

I'm curious as to why libertarians would engage in a relationship underpinned by authority transfer and doused in rules. 'Any ideas?

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/19/2008 6:06:17 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I'm curious as to why libertarians would engage in a relationship underpinned by authority transfer and doused in rules. 'Any ideas?

I've never particularly understood why people would be drawn to such a relationship, unless they were on the end which was making the rules and weilding the authority. Even during the period of my life when I (rather futilely) attempted to be in relationships of such nature - on the rule follower, not rule maker, end of the stick - I didn't understand it. I will likely Never truely grasp why someone would voluntarily live in such a manner, since it's anathema to me. Bondage I understand. Sado-Maso play I understand (and greatly enjoy.) But power exchange - that one I've quit even attempting to understand, and I've learned over the years that I no longer really Want to understand it.

This isn't said to be insulting. Hell, the vast majority of folks on this site - both sides of it - are here because they have (or want) some sort of power exchange thing going on with a sig.other. There's obviously some portion of the concept that I'm simply not grasping on some level. The portions I don't quite "get" notwithstanding, I'll personally stick with the strictly physical.

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RE: The Philosophy of Liberty - 10/19/2008 7:46:46 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I firmly believe everyone is equal....

I have to call bullshit on that one DK. You insult people way too frequently for that to fly. Berne would have put you solidly in the "I'm OK, You're not OK" camp.

Uncle Nasty

Just because I think everyone is equal doesn't mean I also don't also think some people are full of shit or stupid.

I won't attempt to prevent you or anyone believing or doing anything as long as it doesn't adversely affect anyone else. However that doesn't negate my privilege to make fun of people who lie or believe stupid things. My words, of course, do not prevent anyone from doing anything.

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