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Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 1:29:10 AM   
moonvine


Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
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Hi folks,

I went to meet with a dominant who lives a good distance from me.  We met at a restaurant and had a nice enough meal. After we ate he started saying things along the lines of BDSM is bad, wanting to go to church, not wanting to be a sadist because it was evil, etc. 

I used to be a therapist and some of the things he was saying were really troublesome to me in terms of his mental and physical well-being, so I stuck around a couple of hours and chatted with him.  There are some other things in his life that seem to have him in crisis mode which I was able to handle better, but I don't really know what to say about sadism other than "It is ok to be the way you are."  Somehow I don't think that this will be the message he'll get at church.

The only thing I can really think of is recommending a therapist from the Kink Aware Professionals list if there is one in his area, but I am not at all sure he'd go.

Any advice?
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 1:47:03 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

Any advice?

For who? Why try to help someone you don't think would accept it.

K.



(in reply to moonvine)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 1:51:08 AM   
moonvine


Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

Any advice?

For who? Why try to help someone you don't think would accept it.

K.





I don't know that he wouldn't accept it.  I'm pretty sure I know what a church would tell him, and if he really is a sadist (I have no personal knowledge of this beyond what he says), he's not going to be able to get it to go away just because he wants it to.

At least that's how it works with my masochism.  Maybe sadism is different.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 1:53:12 AM   
JustDarkness


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Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

Any advice?

For who? Why try to help someone you don't think would accept it.

K.





because trying is sometimes better then not doing at all.
If you don't do anything..you might regret it..

A no you have..a yes..you can get.

(changed something  >> sometimes) 

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 10/19/2008 2:21:03 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 2:05:00 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

he's not going to be able to get it to go away just because he wants it to... At least that's how it works with my masochism.

Fair enough. But maybe your masochism is playing into this?
 
You went to see a dominant (or so you thought) and you found instead a basket case who proceeded to dump his problems in your lap. Now you're carrying around all these concerns that you didn't have before, and asking for help.
 
Where'd you get that basket?
 
K.
 
 
 
 

(in reply to moonvine)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 2:14:01 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

because trying is soemthing better then not doing at all.

Try what? To make him think like you think he should? He said he wanted to go to church, didn't want to be a sadist anymore, felt it was evil. Since when isn't it his life anymore?
 
K.
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/19/2008 2:15:50 AM >

(in reply to JustDarkness)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 2:17:37 AM   
moonvine


Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

he's not going to be able to get it to go away just because he wants it to... At least that's how it works with my masochism.

Fair enough. But maybe your masochism is playing into this?
 
You went to see a dominant (or so you thought) and you found instead a basket case who proceeded to dump his problems in your lap. Now you're carrying around all these concerns that you didn't have before, and asking for help.
 
Where'd you get that basket?
 
K.
 
 
 
 


I don't know that it is masochism so much as other facets of my personality - being attracted to the helping professions, etc.

If wanting to help people was meeting a masochistic need in me, I'd never need to look for a dominant, because I always want to help people.

Maybe it is just paying it forward from the last time I was in pain and someone helped me.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 2:19:27 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

because trying is soemthing better then not doing at all.

Try what? To make him think like you think he should? He didn't ask for help. He said he wanted to go to church, didn't want to be a sadist anymore, felt it was evil. Since when isn't it his life anymore?
 
K.
 


if you communicate with a person..like those 2 do...she can tell him what she thinks.
That is why ;)
If he was a random stranger she never hardly talked too...different story. But these 2 have a bond...no matter how small/fresh it might be.
He tells his thoughts..so she can do the same.

quote:

He said he wanted to go to church, didn't want to be a sadist anymore, felt it was evil.

that is why she wanted to help..as I read it.



btw  =  soemthing should be sometimes (up in the quote)

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 2:35:14 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		I'm not trying to knock good intentions, moonvine. But good intentions start with respect for the other person's right to make their own choices. If for whatever reason he has rejected his sadism and chosen to seek the succor of the church, that's his choice.
 
I gather you think that's the wrong decision, because obviously it discomforts you. But whose discomfort are you seeking to relieve? He doesn't sound unhappy with his decision. This suggests to me that you've taken on his suffering, and want him to do what would relieve it for you.
 
If you were a therapist, then you know as well as I do that this is exactly the kind of thing they trained you to watch out for in yourself.
 
K.
 

(in reply to moonvine)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 2:46:03 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		this isnt so rare you know.  ive met one or two D's who seemed really uncomfortable with the whole sadism element to start with.  almost as if hurting me felt wrong.  invariably as time went by it got a little easier for them but, truth to tell it totally got in the way for me and i couldnt carry on seeing them.

i dont know how experienced this guy is, maybe he's a little new to it all and still coming to terms with himself.  guys ive met who've been doing this a while dont have the same hang up atall. but that might just be my experience and irrelevant here.

good luck anyway

_____________________________

even doves have pride (Prince)

(in reply to JustDarkness)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 2:46:05 AM   
moonvine


Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'm not trying to knock good intentions, moonvine. But good intentions start with respect for the other person's right to make their own choices. If for whatever reason he has rejected his sadism and chosen to seek the succor of the church, that's his choice.
 
I gather you think that's the wrong decision, because obviously it discomforts you. But whose discomfort are you seeking to relieve? He doesn't sound unhappy with his decision. This suggests to me that you've taken on his suffering, and want him to do what would relieve it for you.
 
If you were a therapist, then you know as well as I do that this is exactly the kind of thing they trained you to watch out for in yourself.
 
K.
 


Well, after talking to him for several hours, I would say he has issues with his choice of career, the meds he is currently taking, his sadism, lack of ability to sleep, lack of sleep, and a couple of other things.

If someone came to me and expressed discontent with their homosexuality and wanted to go to church to try to "fix" it, I'd probably think that was a bad idea as well, because it doesn't need to be fixed.

If I thought going to church would make me vanilla, I'd be there tomorrow.  Since I know that is not possible, I'm going to sleep now:)

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 2:58:26 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		In my book (and I've recently flown all the way to China to practice this) if you feel someone needs support you make it clear you're there for them. But that is as far as it goes. You don't interfere if you're not asked for help - it is (again, in my book) disrespectful.

(in reply to moonvine)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 3:01:09 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

After we ate he started saying things along the lines of BDSM is bad, wanting to go to church, not wanting to be a sadist because it was evil, etc.

[...]

quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

If someone came to me and expressed discontent with their homosexuality and wanted to go to church to try to "fix" it, I'd probably think that was a bad idea as well, because it doesn't need to be fixed.

~blink~

Yes, definitely go to bed. We're done here.

K.



(in reply to moonvine)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 5:13:09 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:

You don't interfere if you're not asked for help - it is (again, in my book) disrespectful.


the problem is though..soem people don't see the problems they have..
do we let them struggle..or try ..to make it visible.

(in reply to antipode)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 5:21:04 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

Any advice?



Point him toward some literature that will open his mind to possibilities existing outside of 'good and evil'.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to moonvine)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 5:31:46 AM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		It took me years to acccept *it*....like a sticker it just festered at times.
 
I know where the guy is comming from in *some* ways...
 
Actually...a lil wench went and told the pastor of the church I attend some things about me =L=
 
The reason I know I talked a little about it on day and he said I know...
 
Now....do I worry he judges me or talks to others about me? Nope...
 
The man will have to come to terms with it in his own ways and times...
 
 

(in reply to moonvine)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 6:49:27 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Just because your masochism doesn't just go away doesn't mean it's that way for everyone.

Leave him be.

If he wants to really get into sadism he will. If not then he won't. I personally don't see what's wrong with him.

He told you how he felt. You aren't his rescuer.

(in reply to ThundersCry)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 7:15:04 AM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		What it sounds like to me is this man wants is a relationship based on Ephesians 5 and not the SM. His choice. Let it go. There is nothing wrong with his desire to be religious about things. I am including for reference the section I am talking about.

5-21) Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22) Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. 23) For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24) As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. 25) Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26) that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27) that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28) Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29) For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, 30) because we are members of his body. 31) "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32) This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church; 33) however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

As a side note- anyone getting stuck on 22-24 needs to keep reading. Husbands (Dominants, Masters) have a lot of responsibility in these words. Anyone that quotes the 22-24 without quoting the rest is suspect of being a fool.

Dolf



(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 11:11:35 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I don't think i could assume responsibility for a first time meets personal problems.   and why is this man meeting mascochists if he truly thinks what he is and does is evil?  Sounds to me that he has a bigger problem than just thinking his actions are evil. I  am a helper, but i acknowledge that i cannot change the lives of everyone i meet or know. I have to pick and choose who i attempt to help.
I wouldn't choose someone i had met for the first time to help.

OP - as admirable as your desire to help is, i think this person who lives far away isn't the person you should be trying to help.  just my opinion.

(in reply to DomDolf)
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RE: Coming to terms with your sadism - 10/19/2008 4:00:39 PM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		You should not be anywhere near him. he's a troubled soul in need of professional help amd you are not a professional. You get out of there before one or both of you gets hurt. Once someone mentally imbalanced starts going on about good and evil, I depart at speed.

(in reply to moonvine)
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