RE: "war crime" - an atrocity in itself?

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RE: "war crime" - an atrocity in itself? - 10/19/2008 10:58:43 PM

NormalOutside

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I'd say a war crime is any act of war. Anyone caught making war on anyone else should be imprisoned.

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RE: "war crime" - an atrocity in itself? - 10/20/2008 12:18:51 AM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

War will always be necessary as long as there are two people or more on this earth that don't agree 100% with each other.

I'm not sure you really mean this as written. But there it is, so I'll quibble with it. I've met, and lived (at various times) in the same dorm, building, or neighborhood with, and even worked for, people whose views and beliefs were not only different from my own, but extremely objectionable to me. Nevertheless, while never becoming social companions, we shared a respect for each other's right to hold the views we held, and treated each other in a way that acknowledged that respect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

We must harm him, kill him if possible, remove his food and water supply, destroy his ability to resist - before he does the same to us.

The operative phrase is, "before he does the same to us." War is one of those things where it matters very much who started it. The only virtue in war is a willingness to stop if the other guy does. But with that, we have absolute absolution. Because then, whatever happens to him is by his own choosing.

K.

Thanks for catching that. Damn that sounded like i wanted to kill all who disagree with me. What i meant to say is it will likely always exist as long as any two or more people don't agree totally.

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RE: "war crime" - an atrocity in itself? - 10/20/2008 12:29:12 AM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

I'd say a war crime is any act of war. Anyone caught making war on anyone else should be imprisoned.

Ok lets run with this. Say i comit a war crime. How will you convince me to go to jail? Will you use guns? And what if i shoot at you? Will you attemp to kill me to protect yourself? LOL Last time i checked People from a foreign country crossing our borders in numbers is considered an act of war. Go get em buddy.

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RE: "war crime" - an atrocity in itself? - 10/20/2008 4:41:43 AM

lazarus1983

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

But war is not an excuse for the sick to indulge their thing, war is bad enough without the sick and the sick should be hunted and kept out of harms way, as all they are is criminals who have not yet been caught.

I am interpreting your "sick" persons to be those who allegedly commit war crimes. How do they become sick? The Marine Corps tears you emotionally, intellectually and morally apart and rebuilds you in its image. Then you are thrown into the cesspool of war where your opponent is trying to butcher you and your superiors will shoot you if you break and run. You are running on adrenaline and anything else you can take on the premise of kill or be killed. At some point you become the soul less zombie that the Corp intended; kill or be killed; do not question; do not think. At some point you go insane. That is why I would never under any circumstances charge anyone with a war crime below the rank of colonel. Now, the politicians who started the war are another matter. Off with their heads.

This is a common belief espoused by ignorant people who have never been in the military and don't really understand it.

If you were truly right, if we were all brainwashed and zombie-fied, then there would be no such thing as shell shock/battle fatigue/post traumatic stress disorder.

After basic training, we are all still human beings.

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RE: "war crime" - an atrocity in itself? - 10/20/2008 8:30:38 AM

Termyn8or

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Are we seeing now what we are ? We are like a pack of dogs or wolves and we want the territory near the river, whether it is a river of water, oil, phosphorous or cadmium.

We are animals. If we weren't these things wouldn't happen. Even if our Alpha males (and females) wanted to make war, if the rest of us refused to go there would be no war.

Last I heard there was no draft in the USA, all those people volunteered.

This animal will kill you if you threaten his home and hearth, family and friends, but in no way in hell would I ever go to a foreign country and start shooting people I don't know and who never were a threat to me. That is the kind of animal I am. Even stealing from me, I got a copper jacketed piece of lead for you on special delivery, 4400FPS in fact, but to go to someone else's homeland and start shooting them on the sayso of some suit who shouldn't be trusted with a boat anchor ? I think not.

If everyone thought like me there would be no war. I won't do it, put me in jail. I don't care, the answer is no.

T

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RE: "war crime" - an atrocity in itself? - 10/20/2008 8:39:19 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Is there really such a thing as "war crime", or is the whole of war by its nature an atrocity?

The idea of "war crime" is fairly modern but the idea of some sort of rules, at least between some competing nations seems very old. Often these were issues of how to treat the dead, the idea you would ransom captives if possible, and observe any shared religious traditions. The farther apart the two competing cultures were in terms of shared values, the fewer "rules" there were.

I think the point of war is either one of two things: To take what belongs to others or to protect what you have. To do anything short of everything you can to achieve your goal then is foolish and to claim you have "rules" about what you can and can't do seems to equally foolish.

I think it's better to avoid wars but if you must go to war, stop acting all legalistic and just do all you can to win.

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RE: "war crime" - an atrocity in itself? - 10/21/2008 10:09:20 PM

Lorr47

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quote:

ummm...every active duty marine I have ever had the pleasure of meeting was possibly one of the most polite and non-zombieish person ever. They may be a bit full of themselves, but in my opinion, they have the right to be. My uncle was a Marine in WW2 and he is still proud of his days in boot camp and his unit in the war. Kill or be killed...thats basic human nature, instinct in all animals. Marines just happen to be highly trained and focused purveyors of that instinct. I also have never met a stupid Marine, as one of the told me, the stupid ones go home the first day.

I agree that when you meet a Marine in the civilized world he will usually act like a gentleman and a scholar. I would allow most to babysit our children. However, if he is a frontline combatant (and % wise they are relatively few in number) I have no doubt that he would cut my throat without thought if ordered by a superior in a war zone. (Altho on such islands as Iwo Jime they were all front line combatants; there was no place to hide.) I do not fault that mentality since in war the front line combatants have to be able to do that and are programed by Marine Corps to follow orders without question. And, that is why I would never bring war crime charges against the front line combatants. Persons who are stupid and enter the corps may go home the first day but more likely become casualties upon stepping into battle. I spent 40 years with several front line Marines from WWII. One had even received a medal whose citation began with "For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty ." It never ceased to surprise me what these citizen solders did in response to orders during battle. Their major emotional problem stemed from the the order to kill fellow Marines who broke and ran during battle. We have sanitized battle so much we do not admit that such was routinely done on such islands as Iwo Jima. My father went in at 17. He came out at about 21, and 40 years later he was still agonizing (crying) about what he did under that order. I do not fault him or the others. They all admited to carrying out orders that in real life they would never would have done; to have carried out any order without question; as they were trained and programed to do. Were they war criminals? I do not think so although some of them agonized the rest of their lives over the question.

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