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McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 7:50:21 PM   
BitaTruble


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The average cost for a family of four for health care premiums is about $12,100 with the employer paying approx $9000 of that and the employee paying about $3300.

Source: National Coalition on Health Care

The size of the average family as of 2006 is 3.2, but you can't have a .2 person and the data is from 2006, so I'll round up and just call it 4. Mom, Dad, two kids and Fluffy the cat.  We're working with hypotheticals at the moment anyway, since there is no guarentee these plans will even be passed by Congress. Feel free to click my links to do your own math for your own family size.

$72,758.24 is the average median income for a family of four

Source: Median income - Family of 4, single earner (I added all the incomes from all the states then divided by the number of states to arrive at the $72k+ number.  I excluded the Common Wealth and U.S territories information because I couldn't find compatible insurance data for those areas. At this point, this is an imaginary plan, so imaginary numbers should be fine. I just want to see bottom lines anyway but I'd bet these are going to be pretty accurate when we get some real data from the camp.)

Okay, so far so good. We've got some numbers to work with now so can apply McCain's plan and see how we do. I'm excited, are you? ::giggles::

Most folks already know about the $5000 per family ($2500 for singles) tax credit to help offset the cost of taxing employer provided health care benefits. (I know all you forumites are savvy critters and knew about the tax on your health care insurance, but for sake of clarity, I thought it should be pointed out in case this ever gets into the Journal of Stuff you do when your Master is out of the Country and you have too much time on your hands)

I'm going to go ahead and use the current tax calculator for the IRS then adjust for McCains plan since we don't have actual calculator tiers yet.

($72,758.24 gross income + $9000 health care tax -  $7,000 personal exemptions for married filing a joint return - $10,900 standard deduction) = $63.858.24

Tax liability on $63,858.24 = $8776 - $1290.07 (deduction for McCain tax tier reduction ) = $7485.93

$14,000 child tax credit exemption (increase from $3500 to $7000 per child x 2 children)

$7485.93 - $14000 = -$6514.07 (since tax credits are only used to offset taxes, that means that your total tax liability is zero.

With me so far?

Okay, now let's apply that $5000 to be paid directly to your insurance company.

$12,100 - $9000 employer paid benefit - $5000 tax credit paid directly to insurance company of your choice (including the company you may current use) = -1,900 (unlike the child tax credit which can only be used to offset taxes, the health insurance tax credit surplus can put into a health savings account to be used to pay for actual medical expenses)

Wait a minute. Zero tax liability, free health care insurance plus $1,900 into a health savings account? Woot! I'm rich! I'm .. I'm .. wait a minute. That can't be right. Who's going to be paying for all this free stuff?

Unlike exemptions, tax credits are subsidies. That's a fact. Subsidies must be taken from somewhere else. They don't grow on trees after all! Bottom line - either the rich are going to be paying for all my new freebies or the budget deficit is going to go up. There's no two ways about it. Since the rich are getting all those freebies, too, that leaves one option. The budget deficit goes up and the only way to offset that cost is to cut government spending. Period. There's no other way.

No problem though as McCain has promised to freeze all non-essential discretionary spending (he didn't specify how long that was going to last). Right now discretionary spending includes the Department of Homeland security, the Department of Defense and the mysterious 'other operations of government' (which would include things like the Department of Justice, education, transportation, agriculture, Housing and Urban Development .. well, you get the picture. Just click the link for a full list).

Anyway .. back to our number crunching!

I get to choose my own health insurance in any state I want ... but, my employer is paying $9000 for my health insurance which effectively means that group insurance is gone and it would cost him the same thing it would cost me to provide health insurance. In other words, this plan takes away any incentive for an employer to provide me coverage because it puts into place huge rolls of red tape (not to mention it's a great big pain in the ass) for my employer in the event all the employees want insurance from different states in different amounts.  It seems to me that rather than give me benefits, my employer would get a lot less headaches if he stopped my benefits and just increased my salary by an equal amount. Either way, my bottom line remains the same. I have the extra cash taxed at the same tier to purchase my insurance. That new big screen television looks pretty good but I'm responsible so I'll spend my raise on insurance. Oh yes I will! And who knows, I might find some insurance in Podunk that offers better coverage at cheaper rates. That'll work. I may get even more $ than I was already going to get.

Well, this all sounds too good to be true!

Um, yeah.

That's because it is. We have our example of the average family who makes around $75k per year. They're going to do okay with this plan as long as spending really is slashed (and, like I said, nothing is free so there are consequences to that action) except, even for them, it's not sustainable. This plan is projected to increase the budget deficit by upwards of $10 trillion dollars which means that McCain will need to slash at least that amount plus inflation factors plus unforeseen expenses .. like if we have another war, another Katrina .. damn near another anything. In addition, he'll have to convince Congress to not only pass this plan but to keep Bush's tax cuts permanently or the whole thing is going to go to shit twice as fast. 

The family who is living paycheck to paycheck and doesn't currently have insurance is not going to start buying it even with a $5000 tax credit. The working poor are going to remain poor. The super rich are going to remain super rich. In other words, folks. Status quo. McCains plan is meant to be phased in over time and in the first few (3 - 5) years, it actually looks pretty good but somewhere around the year 2013 when inflation starts to catch up with that $5000 tax credit, we're going to start seeing some losses in this plan that effectively amount to 68 million people who won't have insurance by the year 2018.

$7000 child credit, corporate/personal income tax cuts, talking of more bailouts, keeping Bush's tax cuts, $5000 health tax credit, interest on our current debt, the two wars .. that shit starts to add up and while it sounds good in theory, that it will create jobs and stimulate the economy .. we've tried this trickle down thing before .. and it didn't trickle down. The rich got richer, the poor got poorer and I don't see one damn thing in this plan that is going to flip that scenario around in the long term.  I've heard this song and dance before and it's the same song and dance we hear every four years when some yahoo is trying to get his ass elected. The only thing that is really different is that health insurance is going free market .. but, guess what, there are no oversites in this plan, no regulations .. no nothing. That could take months to years to implement with Congress (you have heard of Congress right? ) having to approve it all.

Don't forget my fellow collarme posters, the advice we often give to folks .. if you keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome ... well, you know the rest.

Oh and for the record, Obamas plan doesn't do any favors to the deficit either but that would be another thread.

So, bottom line - do you trust McCain to keep his word and do you trust that Congress going to cooperate so that he can actually do that? Congress has about a 10% approval rating, so I'm thinking I don't much feel like trusting them to do anything.

YMMV



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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 8:18:14 PM   
slvemike4u


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Celeste what happens when the health insurance co. cherry pick what state to set up in,finding the state with a cozy r/t to ins.Co's like Delaware and Credit Card Co's....Obama mentioned this in the debate's,something about denying coverage to high risk clients and denying benefits for pre-existing conditions.?

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 8:41:26 PM   
corysub


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"So, bottom line - do you trust McCain to keep his word and do you trust that Congress going to cooperate so that he can actually do that? Congress has about a 10% approval rating, so I'm thinking I don't much feel like trusting them to do anything. "
Quoted from OP views on McCain health plan.

Frankly, you spent a lot of time but it must have been fun for you, and that's what this is all about.  I don't think President McCain has a prayer with his healthcare plan ever becoming law in the USA, and yes, I don't feel like trusting a Pelosi/Reid Congress to do ANYTHING right. Certainly the first two years of their control has given us the lowest popularity poll of any Congress that I can remember. Even a well-known progressive interviewed on Iranian TV noted "We read about George Bush's historically low popularity rating, in fact very low, but the fact is congress is even more unpopular."   It will continue to be a "do-nothing" Congress, other than hosting dozens of hearings and studies, of course.

Personally, I don't think Americans want their healthcare tampered with by Congress, Obama or McCain.  Eighty-five percent (85%) of Americans HAVE coverage, and I don't believe turning the US healthcare system upside down and into a European style government run program will  turn out to be just another legislative "roadkill" on the path towards socialism.  

People from all over the world come to America for specialized healthcare, our pharmaceutical and biotech companies are world class leading edge companies.  If I or any member of our family needs intense medical care, there is a first class facility nearby, and no six months waiting list.  Why would I want to change this..nor anyone else in our country.??  Nothing will be done by Congress to change our delivery method for healthcare.  No one trusts Congress to create any program better than the one we have...and if you want to talk about paying for it, just check the various taxes that are imposed by European countries to support their social welfare programs....whether it be at the gasoline pump..or via the VAT tax.  Bill Clinton actually was proposing a VAT tax to fund his healthcare proposal (National Review,May 1993). 

Of course, I may be totally wrong if Obama should pull this off, together with a left center Congress, you WILL see VAT tax conversation (which I believe averages around 20% in many countries)  once more on the democrat agenda, but that's probably for another thread. 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html#polls

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_/ai_13794050

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21011.htm

< Message edited by corysub -- 10/19/2008 8:42:32 PM >

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 8:56:58 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
Eighty-five percent (85%) of Americans HAVE coverage, and I don't believe turning the US healthcare system upside down and into a European style government run program will  turn out to be just another legislative "roadkill" on the path towards socialism.  


Dude... do you even realise how mistaken you are, or do you revel in your ignorance? I'm not going to do your homework for you, but I advise you search 1. European Union, 2. Healthcare in Europe, and 3. Erroneous information about Europe deliberately propagated by the forces of reaction in the United States today. Bonne chance, mon vieux.

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 9:32:45 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
Eighty-five percent (85%) of Americans HAVE coverage, and I don't believe turning the US healthcare system upside down and into a European style government run program will  turn out to be just another legislative "roadkill" on the path towards socialism.  


Dude... do you even realise how mistaken you are, or do you revel in your ignorance? I'm not going to do your homework for you, but I advise you search 1. European Union, 2. Healthcare in Europe, and 3. Erroneous information about Europe deliberately propagated by the forces of reaction in the United States today. Bonne chance, mon vieux.


You accuse me of "reveling in my ignorance"...but don't come back with any data, facts, research...just your accusation. 
Are you saying that I am wrong in the number 85% of Americans have healthcare? 
Some of the best doctors and dentists in Germany will see you only if you pay Euro's...they don't do Government medicine.  (Personal experience)
Erroneous information about Europe?  Please, correct my error.  Is there NO VAT TAX in Europe?  Does it not range up to 25% in some countries?  What did it start at years ago..was it possibly...errr  10% or so, and than easily raised by politicians.  I just paid $2.95/gal for gasoline in New Jersey...pray tell me...what is the price of petrol in the UK, or on the continent...could it possibly be close "three times that amount"...  or is that another myth propagated by the reactionary forces of the United States...or Mars, or Pluto...  Take some Ambien CR and try to relax.  hugggz

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 10:20:12 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub


Eighty-five percent (85%) of Americans HAVE coverage


....so roughly one in eight don't.


quote:


If I or any member of our family needs intense medical care, there is a first class facility nearby, and no six months waiting list. 



....good for you. However that one in eight just better pray they never get sick or need more than emergency medicine. Because if they do they have two choices......pay or die. It is that stark fact that you appear to skate over in your desire to avoid anything that has the word 'social' in it.

One in eight doomed to maybe die for lack of wealth in a first world country. Now that's ugly.

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 10:20:23 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


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I have a never ending supply of ambien...

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 10:32:52 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub


Eighty-five percent (85%) of Americans HAVE coverage


....so roughly one in eight don't.


quote:


If I or any member of our family needs intense medical care, there is a first class facility nearby, and no six months waiting list. 



....good for you. However that one in eight just better pray they never get sick or need more than emergency medicine. Because if they do they have two choices......pay or die. It is that stark fact that you appear to skate over in your desire to avoid anything that has the word 'social' in it.

One in eight doomed to maybe die for lack of wealth in a first world country. Now that's ugly.


I guess you don't have any regulation enforcement where you live.  Hospitals  must accept a patient for medical care. You should visit a hospital in cities near you...but if you came to Philly, Camden, Trenton, Newark, New York...you will see people getting medical service. Is it a Park Avenue or Rittenhouse Square practicioner..probably not in most cases..but most of us don't have those kinds of doctors available to us either. 

Are there issues for those with no healthcare...absolutley..and they should be addressed..but don't screw up something I and the seven out of eight that do have healthcare.  Big Government has done nothing but hurt me..and I don't want anymore than what was already forced down my throat.  Hillary tried it and was shot down bigtime...and so will McCain or Obama..who ever the unlucky guy is to be the next President.

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 10:44:29 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

I guess you don't have any regulation enforcement where you live.  Hospitals  must accept a patient for medical care. You should visit a hospital in cities near you...but if you came to Philly, Camden, Trenton, Newark, New York...you will see people getting medical service. Is it a Park Avenue or Rittenhouse Square practicioner..probably not in most cases..but most of us don't have those kinds of doctors available to us either. 


....ah, so that one in eight do get health care after all. Not just stabilising after a car accident but all the physio they need to get back to the workplace. Their kids can still get an organ transplant if they need it. i'm so relieved.


quote:

Are there issues for those with no healthcare...absolutley..and they should be addressed.


....but but but but you just said they were getting the healthcare they need. i'm so confused.


quote:

.but don't screw up something I and the seven out of eight that do have healthcare. 


...ah, i see......the 'i'm alright jack' principle.

quote:

 Big Government has done nothing but hurt me..and I don't want anymore than what was already forced down my throat.  Hillary tried it and was shot down bigtime...and so will McCain or Obama..who ever the unlucky guy is to be the next President.


.....somehow i doubt you avoid federally funded roads. Or that you shun the military as a federal big government creation. Your dislike of things organised for the social good only seems to be about things that might make a difference to people not as well off as you.

...edited for a missing ]

< Message edited by philosophy -- 10/19/2008 10:45:38 PM >

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 10:50:27 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub


Eighty-five percent (85%) of Americans HAVE coverage


....so roughly one in eight don't.
True, if one just makes numbers up. If one consults a primary source, in 2006, 47MM, or about 1 in 6, had no insurance.
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/010583.html


quote:


If I or any member of our family needs intense medical care, there is a first class facility nearby, and no six months waiting list. 



....good for you. However that one in eight just better pray they never get sick or need more than emergency medicine. Because if they do they have two choices......pay or die. It is that stark fact that you appear to skate over in your desire to avoid anything that has the word 'social' in it.

One in eight doomed to maybe die for lack of wealth in a first world country. Now that's ugly.
According to friends who live in Vancouver, they get excellent care, choosing their own physicians, and no waits for anything, for about CDN$50.00/ month. That includes vision, too. Prescriptions are about CDN$8.00.

Here's Snopes refuting corysub:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/canada.asp
The part comparing tax rates is interesting. They are very similar, except one country has health care, and one doesn't.

I like the part about opting out, too. I want that here. If someone wants private care, fine; but they don't get access to any public facilities.

I know which source I'll believe.

BTW, Bita, median income 2006 was $50,700, up 1.1% from 2005 (less than the inflation rate). Dunno what that does to your figures.  

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 10/19/2008 10:56:14 PM >


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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 10:55:02 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


....so roughly one in eight don't.




Correct and half of them are kids. The problem is, there is certainly a percentage of lazy ass adults who don't work, won't work yadda, yadda .. but a lot of our 47 million uninsured are simply working poor who can't afford premiums but who make too much for medicaid. My daughter has coverage for her kids .. she's on an 80/20 plan to the tune of $756 a month. A couple of years ago her oldest spent six weeks in the hospital and accumlated a bill of.. I think it was $79,000. Insurance paid 80%. Her and her ex, according to their divorce decree are supposed to split the remaining balance but he doesn't make his payments because he doesn't work so guess who they are collecting from? She's still paying it off and still maintaining the insurance because she has a jay oh bee. Now, she could get full coverage for an additional $400 a month or so, but then she wouldn't be able to make payments on what she already owes. Catch 22 and she actually has insurance! Now, she can go after her ex and sue him, but the guy has diddly squat so she'd be paying for a lawyer to go to court to collect $ from a guy who doesn't have any. Sucks no matter how you slice it.

edit: quote fix

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 11:03:23 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


....so roughly one in eight don't.




Correct and half of them are kids.


...ok, so one in sixteen US citizens not only don't have health insurance, they also have no option to earn it.  Taking US population at about 305 million.......
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
......that comes to a tadge over 19 million.

So come on Corysub, what's the right wing answer to 19 million children without health insurance in the US? Because i only ever hear two answers.......the dishonest one ( we must make special provisions......a promise oft made but never acted on), or the brutally honest one (hey, they're someone elses responsibility, so hands off my taxes).

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/19/2008 11:40:18 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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And furthermore, average wait times in the US are getting longer, while in Canada, they're getting shorter.
http://www.nationalacademies.org/headlines/20081002.html

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/20/2008 12:27:02 AM   
awmslave


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McCain is right in one thing: the cost of healthcare is excessive. It is a fact that healthcare is better in many countries for less cost. I have used medical help in US and I would say at least 50% of charges were clearly rip-off. Why are workplaces that have nothing to do with medicine in medical insuarance business? It makes no sense.

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/20/2008 1:54:41 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

McCain is right in one thing: the cost of healthcare is excessive. It is a fact that healthcare is better in many countries for less cost. I have used medical help in US and I would say at least 50% of charges were clearly rip-off. Why are workplaces that have nothing to do with medicine in medical insuarance business? It makes no sense.


I used to work for one of the largest health insurance companies in the world and we retained a full complement of doctors and RN's on staff in each of our branches. Many agents, claims adjusters and benefits managers as well as a large number of the call center personal have a background in the health care field. That's how we got hired in the first place.

Anyway, insurance is only partially to blame. Codes are often incorrectly submitted by hospital/clinic staff because they weren't properly trained on procedures and forms were filled out incorrectly. Old code books are another culprit and a reason for frequent denial. Virtually anything can flag a claim for non-issuance of payment. Name spelled wrong or illegible? Denied. Marked man instead of woman under gender then tried to get paid for OB services? Denied. Wrong date of birth? Denied. Wrong group number on the claim? Denied. Transpose the ID #? Denied and so on and so forth. Try to get paid for improper benefits (this happens all the freakin time!).. and, of course, you're denied. Many people believe they are entitled to benefits which aren't covered under their plan because they failed to read the fine print or were given misinformation by their HR department because that person didn't understand the procedures. I can't say I blame them.. there are thick books with actual pages in them that have to be read first.

Insurance companies are pretty clear in the handbooks in which services are covered, where they are covered, when they are covered etc, but people still assume that they will get their claim paid automatically no matter what and that's just not true. Every time a claim is denied and has to be resubmitted, someone has to be paid (again) to process that claim and that drives prices up. Some claims can be denied 6 or 7 times before they're paid out. Claims which are denied are put through to the medical department for clearance, so there is some oversite there in that those claims, if they are ultimately denied were probably denied by either a doctor or an RN.

Culpability lies on the insurance companies and providers, yes.. but also on the patient who, as a rule, fails to take responsibility for their own health care and never thinks about it until they need it. Fixing one area isn't enough. Patients need to be educated, insurance needs to be overhauled (and some decent computers would be nice, too) and providers need to be held accountable for their staffs training and knowledge of proper procedures so the system isn't clogged with bogus claims. We were severely understaffed, underpaid and routinely behind in processing paperwork which is why I often had to put in 80 hour weeks (loved the overtime though!) just to try to keep our heads above water. Most schmoes who work at insurance company's are just average everyday folks trying to make a living and feed our family's.

Multi-million dollar salaries and even larger bonuses, perks, trips, cars etc for the Brass are the main reason costs are so high, but everything I outlined does contribute to the compensatory damage.

_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/20/2008 2:21:05 AM   
SilverMark


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The question was and is do you trust McCain if elected to get his health care proposal passed...simple answer has nothing to do with trust but, NO. Health care with either President will be a tough issue to get passed any congress, ask Hillary Clinton. In a lot of states there is health care available for children of the uninsured, here it is called Peach  Care and seems to work fairly well. It is part of a broader law that has been funded through congress and administered through the states. I have often wondered why it is they just don't offer the same thing for adults?
Personally, I think they need to go at the issue a step at a time starting with medi-care but, my parents, at least my mother, is always fighting between medi-care and her medi-care gap insurance to get things paid for. There is also a cap on prescriptions that hits every few months that cause her to spend a great deal of money for the chronic meds she needs. For all the reading I do My ignorance shows on this issue the most because it has little effect on those of us with good coverage. As an employer I spend a great deal of time on finding ways to pay the bill for the coverage I offer to my employees but still know little of the intricacies of it all. It is a costly issue as we can see from the unbelievably complete post by bita and one that will be slow going but, certainly needs addressed before our public hospitals all go broke from the number of head colds treated in emergency rooms as opposed to Dr.'s offices as they should be.

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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/20/2008 4:45:27 AM   
MmeGigs


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I sat down and figured out how this plan would affect me personally.  Taxing these benefits would raise my taxable income by about 25%.  Assuming that the tax rates will stay the same and all that, I'd be paying an additonal ~$5,000 in federal and state income tax and social security and medicare contributions.  My employer will pay an additional ~$1,000 is SS and Medicare.

I'd be okay with that if it meant that everyone would have good health care coverage but that doesn't seem to be the goal.  The $5,000 credit won't buy good insurance for a family.  Good insurance costs at least that much per person.  There are plenty of people out there now who don't count as "uninsured" because they've got some kind of crappy health insurance policy with such high co-pays and deductibles that it effectively does nothing for them unless they've got some kind of catastrophic health situation.  I thnk that this plan would just put more people in that situation. 

I really hate the idea of allowing people to cross state lines to buy health insurance.  It looks like a "consumer choice" issue on its face, but what it really means is that insurance companies can set up in states with lax rules and take advantage of people all across the country. 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/20/2008 5:00:43 AM   
NuminousLeader


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/13/2008
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BT

I read your post and I believe you left out 1 very important part of McCain's plan.

The portion of the insurance that the employer pays for you, will now be considered income and be taxed accordingly.  For the first time in history, income tax will be taken out of YOUR paycheck because your employer pays part of the insurance. 

So though McCain states he will not raise taxes, he does not say he won't create new ones. 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/20/2008 9:23:23 AM   
snappykappy


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Joined: 3/5/2005
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i like the way bozo barack stated that individuals can get the same kind of insurance as both he and mccaine have

duh here is the catch to that they do not pay for the insurance it is the public who pay for it and also they get a retirement of a large percent of what they make for both them and their spouse

also they pay for nothing

time to have it where the senators and representatives do not get the golden parachute and have to scrimp and scrape like the rest of us

(in reply to NuminousLeader)
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RE: McCain Health Care/Tax Plan - 10/20/2008 9:59:18 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuminousLeader

BT

I read your post and I believe you left out 1 very important part of McCain's plan.


That's in there .. under the first set of numbers in determining the taxable wages for taxable liability.. it's the + $9000. I did not included state increases or anything like that.. this was strictly done on the fed level.


quote:

So though McCain states he will not raise taxes, he does not say he won't create new ones. 


Yep, yep. It's the same thing we heard from his daddy, "Read my lips" but with a twist.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to NuminousLeader)
Profile   Post #: 20
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