RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist

RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 1:54:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Boy, so many people trying to tell us that Obama is (not) a Socialist these days. Why are they going out of their way I wonder? McCain can't talk about the economy without losing (his words, not mine) so the only way he can talk about the economy is to call Obama a socialist. It's intellectually dishonest.

slvemike4u -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 1:57:36 PM)
Not to mention bullshit meant to distract and divide....McCain is running a campaign drawn from the tried and true Republican playbook...devide,distract and most of all demonize....classic stuff this......aint working but classic stuff all the same.

popeye1250 -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 2:01:19 PM)
You're all missing my point. It is not part of the job description (job title, or whatever) for our government to be giving our money to foreign countries. I don't care what percentage of the "gnp" it is if it's more than o.oo% it's too much. I have no problem if anyone wants to go and get their checkbook out and cut a check to a foreign country or charity out of their own funds but this is something that our government simply should not be involved in save for an emergency like that tsunami or something. I, and most Americans don't want our government doing this.

slvemike4u -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 2:05:40 PM)
No Popeye it is you missing the point here.Foreign Aid is necessary,now if you want to call it an evil...fine...but be realistic enough to recognise it as a necessary evil.We are not alone on this globe...America First party went out of vogue for a reason my friend.

popeye1250 -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 2:12:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u No Popeye it is you missing the point here.Foreign Aid is necessary,now if you want to call it an evil...fine...but be realistic enough to recognise it as a necessary evil.We are not alone on this globe...America First party went out of vogue for a reason my friend. Slvemike, nope, you're wrong on this. Sen. Dodd said that 99% of Americans "despise" foreign aid. We elect people to public office to do our bidding correct? Some of the countries that are sucking money out of us have been doing so for 40-50 years. When does it end? And they're spending our money on corporate jets, Mercedes Benzes, BMWs and all kinds of other luxury goods! What's the name of that African country that just threw a $2 M birthday party for their "king" on our dime?

slvemike4u -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 2:18:00 PM)
Strictly speaking Popeye,I don't care what 99% of the American people say when they are asked what they think of Foreign Aid.... a)phrase a question in one way and you will get the answer you desire.....yanno 4 out of 5 dentist's prefer Trident...ask those same dentist's if gum is good for your teeth and 5 out of 5 will say no b) we elect our leaders to at times make difficult decisions based on the common good...not some fucking polling information.....and I would be shocked if you didn't know that.

Steponme73 -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 2:24:28 PM)
Obama leans to far to the left for me. Socialism is just around the corner now anyway. We don't need a president that is going to push us further in that direction. I was against the bail out of wall street and still am. I was against the bail out of AIG! What a fiasco! The free market system will correct itself. It may be painful in the short run, but it will work itself into a better climate. Having the government step in is a horrible idea. They are trying to stave off the short term hurt and are not looking at the long term consquences.

slvemike4u -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 2:27:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Steponme73 Obama leans to far to the left for me. Socialism is just around the corner now anyway. We don't need a president that is going to push us further in that direction. I was against the bail out of wall street and still am. I was against the bail out of AIG! What a fiasco! The free market system will correct itself. It may be painful in the short run, but it will work itself into a better climate. Having the government step in is a horrible idea. They are trying to stave off the short term hurt and are not looking at the long term consquences. Send all complaints concerning the bailout to the man who called for it...President Bush c/o the White House 1600 Penn.Ave.

kittinSol -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 2:28:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 It is not part of the job description (job title, or whatever) for our government to be giving our money to foreign countries. It is part of the job description when it prevents those foreign countries from forming alliances with your enemies or even, more plainly, when it makes them think twice before biting off the hand that feeds them. Geesh, Pop, I thought you were less obstinate than that [:D] .

popeye1250 -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 3:22:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Strictly speaking Popeye,I don't care what 99% of the American people say when they are asked what they think of Foreign Aid.... a)phrase a question in one way and you will get the answer you desire.....yanno 4 out of 5 dentist's prefer Trident...ask those same dentist's if gum is good for your teeth and 5 out of 5 will say no b) we elect our leaders to at times make difficult decisions based on the common good...not some fucking polling information.....and I would be shocked if you didn't know that. Slvemike, our politicians don't make tough decisions. They go with the flow and ignore the wishes of the American People. If they're going to do that what's the sense of having a govt? The American People are the management, our elected officials are the hired help. If they don't listen to us we throw them out of office. There's nothing stopping you from cutting a check for foreign aid or a charity, just stay away from my checkbook. Funny, some people say that McCain will just be an extension of Bush but Abbadabba would be the one doing the "same things" as Bush, foreign aid, amnesty for illegal aliens, more money for Aids in Africa, continued out of control immigration, continued out of control spending and higher taxes on top of it! Our govt is out of control. When The People tell our government that we don't want anymore foreign aid that's what it means, it's not "negotiable." And when our government stops listening to The People we are going to have some big-time problems. All the liberals and lefties think it's going to be one big "Cum-bay-ah" party if Abbadabba gets in!

slvemike4u -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 3:29:17 PM)
So you choose to just disregard my comments about how polls are done...okay.let me ask you Popeye,what do you think the "people will say when they are asked a simplistic question like..."how do you feel about sending your tax dollars overseas"....see how that works ,no context = knee jerk reaction answer.And that is the basis on which you want decisions made.If you don't mind count me as part of the 1%,I would rather my elected officials gather all the information,weigh the pros and cons...look at all the angels and then do whats best for the country...without worrying about their polling numbers.That my friend is called Political courage...and it is sorely needed today.

popeye1250 -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 4:57:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u So you choose to just disregard my comments about how polls are done...okay.let me ask you Popeye,what do you think the "people will say when they are asked a simplistic question like..."how do you feel about sending your tax dollars overseas"....see how that works ,no context = knee jerk reaction answer.And that is the basis on which you want decisions made.If you don't mind count me as part of the 1%,I would rather my elected officials gather all the information,weigh the pros and cons...look at all the angels and then do whats best for the country...without worrying about their polling numbers.That my friend is called Political courage...and it is sorely needed today. Well gee Slvemike, why don't we just cut out the middleman and have a dictatorship? I don't understand your disdain for the American People and voters. You seem to be saying that they are ignorant and need to be "lead" by the govt instead of telling the govt what they want "them" to do. And, we don't elect the hired help to make decisions, it's a "messenger" position not a management position. They serve at our pleasure to do our bidding. "Political courage?" In the D.P.S. (dreaded private sector) if you don't do what you're told you get fired. Anyone in politics who "votes their conscience" should be impeached. They are there to do what we fucking tell them to do.

Trystan89 -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 5:30:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Or, to be more precise, a Libertarian Socialist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism An alternative to Capitalism http://www.libertariansocialism.net/ One man's journey from Libertarianism to LS. http://world.std.com/~mhuben/wilson_1.html The term "Libertarianism" was co-opted. Read about the original Diggers in the UK circa 1650 or so. Addendum: there's some funny but oh-so-true stuff here :http://world.std.com/~mhuben/onelesson.html "Libertarianism in One Lesson". Om Mani Padme Om is so Sixties. The new mantra is "Government Does Not Work" Some other great stuff there too. [8D] Heh, five minutes in the forum and I find another lib socialist. I think that it is a better system than capitalism . . . and equally importantly, a more free system.

slvemike4u -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 5:30:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u So you choose to just disregard my comments about how polls are done...okay.let me ask you Popeye,what do you think the "people will say when they are asked a simplistic question like..."how do you feel about sending your tax dollars overseas"....see how that works ,no context = knee jerk reaction answer.And that is the basis on which you want decisions made.If you don't mind count me as part of the 1%,I would rather my elected officials gather all the information,weigh the pros and cons...look at all the angels and then do whats best for the country...without worrying about their polling numbers.That my friend is called Political courage...and it is sorely needed today. Well gee Slvemike, why don't we just cut out the middleman and have a dictatorship? I don't understand your disdain for the American People and voters. You seem to be saying that they are ignorant and need to be "lead" by the govt instead of telling the govt what they want "them" to do. And, we don't elect the hired help to make decisions, it's a "messenger" position not a management position. They serve at our pleasure to do our bidding. "Political courage?" In the D.P.S. (dreaded private sector) if you don't do what you're told you get fired. Anyone in politics who "votes their conscience" should be impeached. They are there to do what we fucking tell them to do. Wow Popeye a better job of distorting what I said I have never seen.My disdain isn't for the American People and Voters....it is for those that let some poll numbers ,without context decide the matter.The American voter armed with the all the information and asked the right question....would IMO agree with me. BTW that bullshit line about ..."it is a messenger position not a leadership position...probably wouldn't stand the test of a good poll,would it!!!!!

MadAxeman -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 5:34:03 PM)
*When was the last time your government did your bidding?*

corysub -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 5:41:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Not to mention bullshit meant to distract and divide....McCain is running a campaign drawn from the tried and true Republican playbook...devide,distract and most of all demonize....classic stuff this......aint working but classic stuff all the same. Sorry, right rules..wrong party. It's the democrat party that slices and dices Americans into latino's, "native americans", "Italian americans", black americans", catholics, jews,, gay v straight, rich against poor, poor against rich, and on and on...putting each group against the other. Classic stuff, true, been listening to their chant all my life living in New York for over forty years and even now in New Jersey and Pa. Divide, conquer, and keep the political power.

awmslave -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 7:15:11 PM)
Libertarian socialism: ...society without political, economic, or social hierarchies... I am sure this society is not healthy in practice as it does not fit human nature. Communist ideas are similar (look good and humane on paper) but proven not viable. Obama is a Western European style social democrat. What is troubling is that he refuses to explain or debate and defend his views. It took Joe the Plumber to reveal that he believes it is important to redistribute wealth and it should be done by taxation and by expansion of government. The last is legitimate politics and it is practiced by Western European countries. Also, accumulation of wealth in few hands poses a problem for the society. I agree the problem exists but I have an opposing view to Obama's fix. In my opinion Obama approach would not work in America. Government redistributing wealth is possible in relatively small European nation countries like Sweden for example. However, these countries have strong national unity, nation's health in general is very important and people accept the high progressive taxation. "American dream" is different: evrybody tries to get bigger piece of the pie and people would resist and work against the policies (it is well demonstrated now how the rich are able to avoid taxes). I would recommend low flat tax, reduction of government and stengthening the Labor and its negotiating power. This would guarantee revival of the strong middle class. America was built on libertarian principle (not libertarian socialism though) and this is why I recommend evrybody to reject Democrats and Republicans and vote libertarian. Obama may win this time but in near future the third party will rise and will beat Democrats and Republicans who already by now have caused great harm to the country. Ron Paul success demonstrated change will come.

MadRabbit -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 7:25:33 PM)
quote: In the United States, the movement most commonly called libertarianism follows a capitalist philosophy; the term libertarian socialism therefore strikes many Americans as inconsistent. I'm one of those Americans. I'm kind of pissed they put the name for a political philosophy with so many viewpoints I agree with in the same name as this stuff. You know why that song about socialism is named "Imagine"? Because that's all socialism is. A figment of the imagination and wishful thinking.

kittinSol -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 7:27:44 PM)
What is socialism, for you?

bestbabync -> RE: Obama is a Centrist... I'M a Socialist (10/20/2008 7:47:20 PM)
rootforamerica08!!!!! that is exactly how i feel. both the congress, the senate and both presidential candidates voted for the bailout. this is one of the most bi-partisan bills ever passed. i agree we voted them in, it is up to us to vote them out!

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