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UK at risk of becoming a "security state" - DPP - 10/20/2008 12:54:33 PM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		DPP boss warns of 'security state'

The Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is making his valedictory speech tonight two weeks before his retirement.

Sir Ken Macdonald is warning that Britain could become a "security state" unless politicians are careful.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/snowmail+record+uk+borrowing/2595987?intcmp=rss_news_itnnews

E

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 1:06:30 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 1:14:27 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		yeah- I see they want a passport to own a cell phone.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 1:23:04 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Just wondering what you think of the situation....are you criticizing your government?

Butch

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 1:27:12 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Our government sucks big time !

But then it is the nature of British people not to trust the government.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 1:45:12 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Our government sucks big time !

But then it is the nature of British people not to trust the government.


That is a healthy attitude...but why not criticize the reason for the loss in civil liberties along with your government?

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 1:52:24 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Because we let the fuckers do it, because they adopted the pose that they in their infinite wisdom  as the government elected, they know better than us. Some horse shit about it will prevent crime and terrorism. Guess what, crime still happens despite the surveillence. Whether cameras in every tree and under every rock  stops terrorism, that remains to be seen, I hope it does, else they have failed in their purpose and must be removed unless the real reason for their placement is ever known beyond the suspicion we all have for the things.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 1:57:14 PM   
amaidiamond


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Status: offline 		I think that like everywhere else the "Want it now" culture is taking it's toll. For years people everywhere have effectivly lived on credit and now it's crashing down around us.

From a personal point of view, Important lessons learnt especially in the difference between "want" and "need" - I want a lot yet I need little and personally am trying to realise that  - Hopefully I will be able to carry my learnt lessons forward.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 1:57:26 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Status: offline 		The reason is "The war on Terrorism"
 
None of the public are convinced and if there was a vote next week Mr Brown would be gone, I have no doubt. That stupid Law Lord going on about major Terrorist plots is a good example of how this Government operates: A law lord says there are major terrorist plots being investigated and the security services say, "That is news to us."
 
Sure terrorism is a problem but I kind of wonder what is worth saving at this stage? They can always spread this fear about which can't be scrutinised by the public, we just have to trust they need more power and finally people are starting to wake up and realise they don't.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 1:59:35 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Because we let the fuckers do it, because they adopted the pose that they in their infinite wisdom  as the government elected, they know better than us. Some horse shit about it will prevent crime and terrorism. Guess what, crime still happens despite the surveillence. Whether cameras in every tree and under every rock  stops terrorism, that remains to be seen, I hope it does, else they have failed in their purpose and must be removed unless the real reason for their placement is ever known beyond the suspicion we all have for the things.


Hmmm then I guess they need you to give them some ideas..what would they be?

Butch

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 2:06:58 PM   
amaidiamond


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Status: offline 		We are already that way - walk around london and you can be followed quite easily via the cctv from one side to the other.

They know where we shop, what we do on our days off, where we go out to eat, socialise, when we take out our garbage. There is no real "becoming" about it - seems to me it's ready here.

1984 - late as opposed to never?

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 4:03:25 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

We are already that way - walk around london and you can be followed quite easily via the cctv from one side to the other.

They know where we shop, what we do on our days off, where we go out to eat, socialise, when we take out our garbage. There is no real "becoming" about it - seems to me it's ready here.

1984 - late as opposed to never?



....no, not Orwell, Harry Harrison. The Stainless Steel Rat to be precise. If they're to watch us all, then there has to be as many of them as us. The surveillance society is basically impossible.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 4:34:06 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		At least he has been outspoken during his term in office. I always had the suspicion he gained his position due to his links with Cherie Blair, so i suspect Tony was none to happy to see him criticise the term war on terror. As for becoming a security state, both the UK is well on the way with the Terrorism Act 2000, and the RIPA act of the same year. The US isnt far behind with the PATRIOT Act either.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 4:40:34 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

....no, not Orwell, Harry Harrison. The Stainless Steel Rat to be precise. If they're to watch us all, then there has to be as many of them as us. The surveillance society is basically impossible.


Visually you are correct Phil, but electronically its already happening. We have the system of roadside cameras, with automatic registration number recognition. This is not only used to track stoeln and uninsured cars, but also to alert towns when known criminals are in the area. Mobile phone signals can be traced in the larger Cities, with more or less pinpoint accuracy. Bluetooth technology is on trial in Bath ( i think ) Where in a link with store owners ect, it is being used to track shoppers habits. The reason given is so it can be used to aid town planning. Using all of these on Joe Public is just a short step away.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 5:05:10 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

....no, not Orwell, Harry Harrison. The Stainless Steel Rat to be precise. If they're to watch us all, then there has to be as many of them as us. The surveillance society is basically impossible.


Visually you are correct Phil, but electronically its already happening. We have the system of roadside cameras, with automatic registration number recognition. This is not only used to track stoeln and uninsured cars, but also to alert towns when known criminals are in the area. Mobile phone signals can be traced in the larger Cities, with more or less pinpoint accuracy. Bluetooth technology is on trial in Bath ( i think ) Where in a link with store owners ect, it is being used to track shoppers habits. The reason given is so it can be used to aid town planning. Using all of these on Joe Public is just a short step away.


(my italics)

......i'm sure all the instances you cite are correct. Thing is, it's a question of scale. It's one thing to use existing OCR (optical character reading) technology on car plates. However, if they're going to track all of the UK's shoppers in real time then they're going to need a quantum computer.  If they're not going to do it in real time then they'll be forver playing catch up. When surveillance is attempted on a societal scale, then the only way it can happen is when the subject population help. In other words when people become their own secret police......actually that is straight out of Orwell. However, if the population don't help then mass surveillance is damn near impossible with current or near future tech.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 5:22:52 PM   
MadAxeman


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Status: offline 		Don't forget Ken Macdonald's hidden agenda. He wants more money spent on the police and infers that money spent on surveillance is diverted from police budgets.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 5:42:58 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Simple way to hinder the lookers with the high street surveillance cameras is to wear a wide brimmed hat, that way your features are hidden.

Not that I am bothered, as I have nothing to hide, but if someone is looking at me, I want to be able to see them, if they choose to hide themselves, then so do I.

Over the summer there has been many changes at college, a third of the workforce has either been laid off or taken early retirement, but we are secure now, as we have surveillance cameras everywhere. Fair enough, there has been some serious thefts from college, mainly cameras, lappys, purses bags etc the usual attractive items. One of the disadvantages of the college being next to the police station, it being a short cut for the released. The cameras are to stop the thefts, so they say, but so far they have'nt, as hoodies wear hoods and the capped wear caps. Features hidden and no security at the college, a waste of money, I just hope the staff reduction did not pay for this surveillance system. The cameras are good at recording a theft, but hidden features means the culprit is not identified, and the goods never recovered.


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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 5:50:12 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Simple way to hinder the lookers with the high street surveillance cameras is to wear a wide brimmed hat, that way your features are hidden.


Ah so that is your ploy with that hat of yours. Aneirin is a hattie which is similar to a hoodie but errm wears a hat.

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 5:54:02 PM   
MadAxeman


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Status: offline 		He's also a beardie

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RE: UK at risk of becoming a "security state"... - 10/20/2008 6:08:09 PM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Britain could become a "security state"



Oh good. We Londoners could do with some of this 'security' to protect us from headcases like Boris Johnson.

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