Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows

Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (Full Version)

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BlackPhx -> Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:23:18 PM)
According to a Forbes article here http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27328293/ I have included only a snippet..the article itself is fascinating. "In all, because of their higher noncompliance rates, those with true incomes of $200,000 or more received 25 percent of all income, but accounted for 40 percent of net under reported income and 42 percent of under reported tax in 2001, the new analysis finds. The study was written by Joel Slemrod, an economics professor and director of the Office of Tax Policy Research at the University of Michigan's business school and IRS economist Andrew Johns. It has not been officially endorsed or even released by the IRS and seems sure to add fuel to the election season debate over whether those earning $250,000 or more should pay higher tax rates, as Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, has proposed." poenkitten ( whose jaw dropped while reading it)

LadyEllen -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:26:45 PM)
You dont get rich by writing a lot of cheques E

ArizonaSunSwitch -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:34:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlackPhx According to a Forbes article here http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27328293/ I have included only a snippet..the article itself is fascinating. "In all, because of their higher noncompliance rates, those with true incomes of $200,000 or more received 25 percent of all income, but accounted for 40 percent of net under reported income and 42 percent of under reported tax in 2001, the new analysis finds. The study was written by Joel Slemrod, an economics professor and director of the Office of Tax Policy Research at the University of Michigan's business school and IRS economist Andrew Johns. It has not been officially endorsed or even released by the IRS and seems sure to add fuel to the election season debate over whether those earning $250,000 or more should pay higher tax rates, as Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, has proposed." poenkitten ( whose jaw dropped while reading it) Since 40 percent of the workforce pays no federal taxes it's kind of hard for them to cheat. Since, the top 10 percent of taxpayers provide 70 percent of the tax revenue you would think they would be responsible for 70 percent of the underreporting. Yet they are only responsible for some fraction of that 42 percent. Seems to me they are about twice as honest as the typical taxpayer, that's probably why it isn't "officially endorsed".

philosophy -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:36:30 PM)
FR ...i have to say that this study simply confirms what i've often thought. When some people bang on about welfare fraud they conveniently forget that the cash value of corporate fraud is magnitudes greater. However, those same people equate corporate regulation with barriers to wealth creation......which says a lot about their priorities.

kittinSol -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:43:21 PM)
Ah, but you see, when people supposedly take advantage of the welfare system, they're morally questionable cockroaches, whereas when people cheat to wiggle out of paying billions of corporate taxes... they're on the meritocratic highway, paying their way to success. It's all a question of morality here. See?

philosophy -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:44:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Ah, but you see, when people supposedly take advantage of the welfare system, they're morally questionable cockroaches, whereas when people cheat to wiggle out of paying billions of corporate taxes... they're on the meritocratic highway, paying their way to success. It's all a question of morality here. See? ....for a given value of morality......harumph

BlackPhx -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:46:29 PM)
Actually according to the report there is an 8 percent under reporting rate for those earning $50,000 to $100,000 and those earning $30, 000 to $50,000 have a Net Misreporting Rate of 7%s. (The "net misreporting rate" as the IRS calls it, includes both under reported income and inflated deductions.) Read the report, it is actually very interesting. Oh and there is a lawsuit against USB by the Government to get them to release the names of 18,000 wealthy Americans it believe have unreported Swiss Bank Accounts. poenkitten who just found it edifying

kittinSol -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:47:23 PM)
Morality is on the side of those that WIN [8\|] .

philosophy -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:48:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Morality is on the side of those that WIN [8\|] . ....right...pistols at dawn! [:D]

LadyEllen -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:50:49 PM)
I dont object to paying taxes - but I do object to paying the level of taxes required of me; if I can scheme my way out of paying some of it, I will. Because I also object to the attitude displayed to those who, newly out of work or otherwise in need, go to claim and get told that basically they're not entitled to very much at all, even though they just spent years working and paying in enormous sums of tax. Whilst it would seem those that have never raised so much as a finger except inasmuch as working the system thoroughly requires, are raking in benefits. The system is set up with the principles of dishonesty in mind it seems - it rewards it and generates it, along with the clear message that those who help themselves to what they can, do best. We need a total reorganisation of our system and spending (and so tax) requirements, accompanied by a much more adequate and fit for purpose benefits system that takes into account what one has put in. E

kittinSol -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:51:45 PM)
But... I don't like guns [:o]. They're far too expensive for a poor fucker like me. I can't afford that frikkin bullet. Can we do this instead [sm=duel.gif][sm=fight.gif][sm=pillowfight.gif] ?

corysub -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:53:58 PM)
"The Rich Cheat on Their Taxes" Would that be all the rich? Some of the rich? A few of the Rich? Sure, the poor don't cheat on their taxes...40 million people don't pay taxes, although there are probably a lot of rich people in that number who may have non-taxable income. I think Warren Buffet once said that he pays less taxes than his secretary as a percentage of his income.

corysub -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 5:58:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Morality is on the side of those that WIN [8\|] . I think you are right... I would just add..."Morality is on the side of those that WIN, and than write History!" History is an impartial, if controversial judge I think, once those with an axe to grind are dead. But I could be wrong...

rulemylife -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 6:00:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArizonaSunSwitch Since 40 percent of the workforce pays no federal taxes it's kind of hard for them to cheat. Since, the top 10 percent of taxpayers provide 70 percent of the tax revenue you would think they would be responsible for 70 percent of the underreporting. Yet they are only responsible for some fraction of that 42 percent. Seems to me they are about twice as honest as the typical taxpayer, that's probably why it isn't "officially endorsed". [sm=wtf.gif] And 50% of people are right only half the time but only on the first Tuesday of every month and only in odd numbered years every third decade.

philosophy -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 6:16:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol But... I don't like guns [:o]. They're far too expensive for a poor fucker like me. I can't afford that frikkin bullet. Can we do this instead [sm=duel.gif][sm=fight.gif][sm=pillowfight.gif] ? ...ok, pillows at dawn!

MmeGigs -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 6:29:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen I dont object to paying taxes - but I do object to paying the level of taxes required of me; if I can scheme my way out of paying some of it, I will. That's pretty much the whole problem in a nutshell from my point of view. The bottom half and more of us don't have the ability to scheme our way out of taxes. Our income is all reported to the govt on our W2, we don't have enough deductions to itemize even if we fudge, so we have no choice but to pay all that we legally owe. It's pretty danged frustrating to be one of these people and know that there are people who are fudging their figures so that they don't have to pay what they legally owe. It's not an even playing field for me.

BlackPhx -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 7:26:07 PM)
Hey I feel sorry for Waiters and Waitresses..and others who live primarily on tips. They can end up with a negative paycheck each week as they are paid minimum wage, and IRS takes a standard tip percentage for each dinner check they log..I think the current rate is 20% of the check ..but I am not positive. Then they have to rpve to IRS at the end of the tax year what they actually earned from us lovely customers. poenkitten

Sanity -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 8:10:33 PM)
The poor (or the bottom 40%) don't pay taxes, so of course they're rarely caught "under reporting" their income. The next brackets up aren't as interesting to the IRS and so they're not audited as much. So of course the "rich" are caught cheating more than anyone else! It only makes sense. But a lot of poor people cheat. When buying a car from a private party why not under report its value to avoid some taxes, especially if that represents a lot of money to you. If you're buying things from out of state over the Internet, do you declare it to the state so they can collect state sales tax? And so on. The people who claim that it's patriotic to pay higher taxes have forgotten what they learned in grade school about the Boston Tea Party. Government is getting too big and bloated, state and fed, and they're hiring people every day to practically just throw our money away. Hell, Obama wants to double our foreign aid programs, our gifts to the UN for the global war on poverty that never ends. WTF??? Why not look out for number one. The government's not looking out for you, necessarily.

kittinSol -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 8:12:04 PM)
You nearly made me feel sorry for that tiny percent of the citizenry that owns the large majority of society's wealth: how tough it its to be well-off!

Sanity -> RE: Rich cheat on their taxes more, study shows (10/22/2008 8:14:05 PM)
If you're jealous, go out and earn some. Having the government steal it for you is thievery, no better than if you steal it yourself. Highways and bridges, yes. Welfare to teach people to not work? NO quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol You nearly made me feel sorry for that tiny percent of the citizenry that owns the large majority of society's wealth: how tough it its to be well-off!

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