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the dominant within as a path to control and discipline - 10/22/2008 5:57:03 PM   
stella41b


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This is something which comes to me from my work in theatre, but which from my experience as a submissive forms part of my theory.

You see when I write a play I like to close myself off, isolate myself, listen to music. I switch off my phone, and can only be reached by indirect means. This is while I am putting my ideas, feelings and emotions into words onto paper but through the eyes, speech, thoughts and actions of the characters in my play. I need to isolate myself from others so as to get my thoughts, feelings and emotions down on paper in one go smoothly and without breaks. If my thought process becomes interrupted through a phone call or someone knocking at my door it creates a 'break' in the text. Usually this is the point where the actor, who is interpreting the text arrives at the break, and becomes unsure of how to prepare the role. These have to be ironed out in rehearsal so as not to be transferred to the audience.

I became aware of this through my training as a female submissive in Warsaw. I was trained by a sadistic lesbian leather domme known as Lady Kali Sado, together with her staropolski family, over 5 years from a basis of leather values, Old Guard and formal domestic service. Being in Eastern Europe she taught me dignity in service and submission, honour and what she called 'Mistress within' thinking.

She referred to this as 'the dominant within' and it was a way of working towards control and discipline. I was required to adopt some of her character traits, her methods of self-expression, her tastes, preferences, and to work at making them my own and working them into my inner nature. She felt that submission was just like obedience, it had to be absolute, unquestioning, non-negotiable, and to come from within. She was looking for me to be totally submissive and obedient to her will, but also to carry a sense of dignity, of pride and honour in my submission. She insisted that I dominate some of her paying submissives and slaves, and she trained me to be a dominant with a small 'd', as no more than an extension of my submission. She wanted me as an alpha type female slave and wanted me to be able to indepedently make the right decisions and choices through having 'the Mistress within'.

She saw this as a more preferable model of service than command and service. This taught me to understand authority transfer as a stage in the relationship and not something which happens continually throughout the relationship. Even today I feel as a submissive to require an external source of discipline to be a weakness and also that my control of myself should be the same as any control a dominant would want to exert over me through their own actions and influence, so that irrespective of whether I am with them or away from them I am under their control and living, acting, etc within predefined set limits established by both and something to which I as a submissive commit myself to voluntarily.

Now we have often heard of authority transfer, but what about thought transfer, emotion transfer, energy transfer? Have any of you ever experienced something like this? Is it something you practise in your relationship?

Please feel free to share experiences, thoughts, opinions.


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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/22/2008 6:12:54 PM   
Lockit


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Ahhh now I understand what you were talking about! lol  You have expressed very well how I think here.  It is like raising my um's... at some point they are supposed to be grown ups.  I have had this in relationships where we were very close.  It was as if we could read one another or knew from experience what the other would say or do or how they would respond.  And most of the time, we responded in a very similar way, with different words or our own blend of our personality blended in.

I think that as a dominant, I would be ever so proud of one who had taken our dynamic's and owned them so to speak.  I do hope to experience it again!

I think that all the things you mention in transfering are included.  They dynamic's, energy, emotions and thoughts all seem to feed one another in a sense.  Although I don't think we can become someone else and I wouldn't want that if we could, seeing, feeling, experiencing the flow between two is quite amazing!

I would hate it if my submissive needed constant orders and instructions and didn't know how I would expect them to act in the area's that mattered to me.  I would think there was a serious problem if they couldn't.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/22/2008 6:14:12 PM   
Padriag


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I'm gonna have to mull this one over a bit... making me go....hmmmmmmmm.  Stay tuned.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/22/2008 8:11:15 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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To me authority transfer is simply a type of energy transfer.  It's all under that umbrella.

However, I do not consider service and discipline to be submissive or dominant traits, though I can see why a submissive would like to internalize an external force in the form of a dominant (much like christians and catholics tend to do with their gods power and will).

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/22/2008 8:19:38 PM   
leadership527


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Wow, OK. I'm just going to admit it. I'm totally and completely lost. I absolutely don't get the "command and service" model or the "more preferable" model you present here. Nor can I envision, looking at myself and my wife, how the authority transfer "stage" of our relationship would ever change barring some outside life event. More importantly, I cannot envision why either of us would want it to.

Any chance I can convince you to restate this Stella? I have a feeling I'm going to find it very interesting once I can understand it. I've been exploring little tricks of mental jui-jitsu with my wife.. helping her to harness her submissiveness to solve all sorts of problems, even problems apparently requiring a dominant role. Somehow, I think there's something for me to learn about that in your thinking here.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/22/2008 8:21:15 PM   
Sexycelticlady


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Being very new to this lifestyle I am still on a steep learning curve with regard to my own submission and role towards others. In my opinion, I think what you see as "the dominant within" is an aspect of control that each of us, whether we are Dom or sub should have over ourselves, a centre of balance, that is separate from our need to interact with another person. No matter what role we take in the lifestyle, we each have a responsibility to ourselves, first and foremost. If as a submissive you cannot hold the reins of responsibility for yourself, how can you expect another to and how can you truly submit to another without first having the self awareness and ability to control your own life, your own emotions, your own person? I think that using submission to excuse ourselves from that personal responsibility is a very real trap that some may get caught in, and in doing that not only would the submissive fail their Dom but more importantly they would fail themselves. I do think some subs may require some guidence on how to acknowledge that responsibility, and there is nothing wrong with that providing they are willing to do the work required.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/22/2008 10:27:32 PM   
yourMissTress


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Thank you stella, excellent post!

I completely get what you are saying.  You were taught to "learn your Dominant" and eliminate the constant need for commands and direction.  Instead of being handed a list of rules and orders, you were taught how your Dominant thought, what was her perception of certain situations, and learned how she wanted things done from her point of view.


While I don't go about it in the same manner, my style is similar.  I don't ask that a submissive attempt to take on my personality traits to learn about me and how I think.  I talk with them, a lot, about what I want, who I am, how I enjoy life, and ask them to learn from those long and involved discussions to absorb what they learn and apply it to their service. 

I don't want to write a manual that specifies everything I want done, how I want it done, and when because I am, and my life is, more spontaneous than such a book would allow for.  I don't want to constantly give orders to a sub, I want some anticipation, some forethought, and some intuition.  I don't want them standing about all the time just waiting to be told something.  I want them to take the time to learn and grow with me.

Thank you again for posting this, it was a great read.


Warning~ what you have just read is my opinion and my way of doing things.  It is not right, wrong, or otherwise.  I am not putting anyone else's way down, and I am not saying that anyone who doesn't do as I do is wrong. I do not advocate my way for everyone, in fact, it's really not for anyone but me so don't even try to steal it.



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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/23/2008 12:35:08 AM   
DreamsOfSpider


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Very interesting post. I've been thinking about the personality traits I have that fall under the "submissive" umbrella, and I've realized I'm not happy about the way some of them are manifesting. And wondering what I can do about it. As a writer and roleplayer I'm certainly familiar with taking on different personas, and I like the idea of cultivating an "inner dominant"... bit of a stretch to do so without an actual dominant involved, but... hm. Food for thought, at least. Thank you.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/23/2008 5:38:54 AM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

She wanted me as an alpha type female slave and wanted me to be able to indepedently make the right decisions and choices through having 'the Mistress within'


Stella,  BSB is very much a dominant woman but she was also a bit meaner and "bitchy" when I first met her.  It wasn't a side she liked and so I worked with her to modify those traits.  She would try and "channel" me in a mock psychic sense to imagine what I would say or do in a given situation.  I think she has largely internalized those changes and doesn't need to "channel" me as much, something we are both very proud of.

I have done the same in some ways as she is the most drama free partner I have had.  I have worked to invoke some of that inner calm myself although to a less successful degree. 

I like LA's analogy of the way people gain strength and guidance by "channeling" their deity, it makes for a good analogy.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/23/2008 5:53:51 AM   
SomethingCatchy


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Excellent post. I'll have to forward this one to a friend of mine. Thank you for posting up great reading fodder!

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/23/2008 10:15:44 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I have worked to invoke some of that inner calm myself although to a less successful degree. 



Really?  You never told me that...

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/23/2008 10:22:42 AM   
MistresseLotus


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quote:

thought transfer, emotion transfer, energy transfer?


All of the above.  I actually didn't do a whole lot of physical domination.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/24/2008 12:12:57 PM   
SlaveIndigochild


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

Now we have often heard of authority transfer, but what about thought transfer, emotion transfer, energy transfer? Have any of you ever experienced something like this? Is it something you practise in your relationship?

Please feel free to share experiences, thoughts, opinions.



Dear Stella:
Some interesting points that you raise.
I do feel that there are cultural differences. I found my time living in pre-capitalist Russia to be invalueable in terms of understanding service in general. he value placed upon it. The value placed upon work.
As reagards those non-behavioural aspects of submission/sevice that i believe you are talking about.
'Empathic service' or 'intuitive service' is a way of being and a state of mind which We are fascinated by. I often 'feel' i simply am reading what and how my Master wishes me to serve Him. his can be in the context of everyday service....like passing a pen to Him, in daily ritualised service.....as in making tea a certain way and my daily observations of His authority. Thus this can be done behaviourially each morning and evening as i prostate at His feet OR this can be done by my prostration, kneeling or sitting in silence if being at His feet is prohibited in any way.
he most intutive of service happens when i feel i am intuiting His needs, His desires and His thoughts. This happens in the most intimate of settings and is very arousing. It is experienced as a raise n energy if that is what is required of me. I am allowed to make mistakes in my intution but mistakes are pointed out to me and are few are far between.
If He is dominant within then i am submissive within. It must be so otherwise we would conflict.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/24/2008 5:19:37 PM   
sailorfrank


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   Very nice post and well done.  Of course it is a big compliment to your Master/Mistress that shows decent training.  When you share it with others as it had a big meaning in your life as well!

  Lessons passed along to others by a devoted slave/sub is always the best way to show your thanks for the training you received from them!

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/24/2008 6:55:43 PM   
cagliostro


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I don't know if I would call it a transfer exactly, but yes I do think it happens.   And I definitely do try.

I think that the whole industry of self-help and therapy is kind of along these lines.  The idea is always to change a persons thoughts or feelings to help them deal with something, or whatever.  Like "reverse psychology."  You're affecting that person's thoughts by an action on your part.  I actually do it a lot, now that I think about it.  But even in a vanilla context.  Personally I've done a lot of therapy and research into it, so I know a lot of the "tricks of the trade" so to speak, and most people have patterns that are easy to spot and break.  It does work remarkably well in D/s play too. 

And, in general, there is a symbiosis in every relationship.  So I think that it is logical to think that a dominant parnter could come to influence their submissive in the way you're describing.  Knowing the other person well, you can know how to talk, walk, carry yourself, etc. to convey your state, and if you control those things you can influence the other person without even a word.  Though, even if you don't know them it is possible.  Through a lot of introspection, thought, meditation, etc. I've learned to convey such things in a way that is hard to describe.  I can project malice and people shrink back.  I can project comedy and have them relax. 

I'm not sure I'm making sense.  Or being all that helpful.  I'll think about it some more, and maybe post again.  But yes, yes, and yes.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/26/2008 5:01:06 AM   
Nefric


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Stella you have put so nicely what has been happening for me the last few weeks. I am a novice Dom and have a wonderful very vanilla wife who has encouraged me to embrace this side of myself. I remind myself each day to know who I am, to not let the world steal my identity from me and to claim each day. Doing this has increased my confidence in other areas of my life and short comings that I have had most of my life are easier to work past, reminding myself of who I am. Thanks for sharing you eloquence with us.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/26/2008 8:43:44 AM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

She referred to this as 'the dominant within' and it was a way of working towards control and discipline. I was required to adopt some of her character traits, her methods of self-expression, her tastes, preferences, and to work at making them my own and working them into my inner nature. She felt that submission was just like obedience, it had to be absolute, unquestioning, non-negotiable, and to come from within. She was looking for me to be totally submissive and obedient to her will, but also to carry a sense of dignity, of pride and honour in my submission. She insisted that I dominate some of her paying submissives and slaves, and she trained me to be a dominant with a small 'd', as no more than an extension of my submission. She wanted me as an alpha type female slave and wanted me to be able to indepedently make the right decisions and choices through having 'the Mistress within'.

What you describe here is called, in behavioral psychology, "modeling behavior".  Its a primary method of teaching sometimes referred to (if you'll pardon the particular imagery) as "monkey see, monkey do."  Whether or not you actually learned to think like her I cannot say as I don't know her and can make no comparative analysis.  However, I suspect that you only learned to model some behaviors, while remaining unaware of other aspects of her thought processes... in otherwords, you learned to mimic and behave like her in specific circumstances and that may very well have given you insight into some of her thought processes within, and as they relate to, those specific circumstances.  We all experience this to some degree, with our parents, our friends, anyone we closely associate with.


quote:

She saw this as a more preferable model of service than command and service. This taught me to understand authority transfer as a stage in the relationship and not something which happens continually throughout the relationship. Even today I feel as a submissive to require an external source of discipline to be a weakness and also that my control of myself should be the same as any control a dominant would want to exert over me through their own actions and influence, so that irrespective of whether I am with them or away from them I am under their control and living, acting, etc within predefined set limits established by both and something to which I as a submissive commit myself to voluntarily.

Whether it is "weak", "good" or "bad" is a subjective judgement.  Personally, I would subjectively say the model you describe would be one I would find preferable.  However, a better way to look at it is as to whether any specific "mode"... whether requiring external control or not or anything else... is to ask whether or not it achieves a desirable end or not.  If it does, we might call it "good"... if not, it might be called "bad"... but these are subjective descriptors that apply only so long as the circumstances which produced the behavior continue to exist.  When those circumstances, or goals, or needs change... what we deem good or bad behavior may change as well.

quote:

Now we have often heard of authority transfer, but what about thought transfer, emotion transfer, energy transfer? Have any of you ever experienced something like this? Is it something you practise in your relationship?

Please feel free to share experiences, thoughts, opinions.

I don't see thoughts or emotions being transfered... I see them being mimiced and copied... or modeled if you want the technical term.  We so often in life learn by copying what we see others do.  Whether that's learning a job skill by watching someone already skilled, or a submissive learning a particular behavior or complex of behaviors by observation.  Its something many dominants ought to keep in mind.  One of the more effective ways to train a submissive is by example.  That is, suppose I wanted a submissive to clean my house in a particular way... one method would be to clean it myself as I wish it to be cleaned while the submissive watches and perhaps helps... and then have them copy the behavior while supervised, correcting where necessary, until the behavior is learned.  Course that gets a little more.... ummm... challenging... if a straight male dom wants to teach a female submissive to give a BJ.  LOL

Thought provoking post, and one that illustrates a number of other points not addressed.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/26/2008 10:06:38 PM   
Wickad


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(fast reply)

Bump!!

Off to bed, but want to keep track of this one.

Wickad

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 10/27/2008 12:00:40 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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One thing in my life dramatically pushed me into thinking a certain way and altering my behavior to the point where I wouldn’t do anything that would lower my status in the group.

That was the military. Starting as an enlisted man and going through various training programs and finally becoming an officer built parameters of behavior for me that I wouldn’t cross. I would emulate successful and charismatic superior officers. I learned by watching them and molding my thoughts and feelings to what I thought they would do. That ability to think and feel like a superior was actually a strong point for me and something others couldn’t readily master.

I was an only child in an uneducated family with a severely alcoholic father and that may have made me more prone to search for successful male figures to follow in my career. The Army makes you take many tests before you are allowed to go from enlisted to officer and I did very well on all of them, except the very last one. The psychology test to predict if you would make a good leader.

I scored at a barely passing level on that and I do think it was accurate. But what that test couldn’t predict is that I had strengths such as the ability to emulate that would override my weaknesses. As it turned out, I never once had an OER (officer efficiency rating) that was not max. That’s unusual.

I will say that although I stayed within my learned leadership personality and boundaries, I did change over time to reflect my own dominant personality more and more. Once I became more confident and felt that I knew the system I knew I could do it my way. I’m sure I attracted my share of those who followed my techniques during this confident time before I left the military.

We all tend to go back to our inherent qualities in an overriding way even though we have changed certain aspects of our personality is what happens from my experience and what I’ll leave you with.

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RE: the dominant within as a path to control and discip... - 11/1/2008 1:08:30 PM   
masterdstar


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As long as One understnds control is  an illusion and merely one tool of Domination and is inherent  to discipline.

Enjoy your wonder-filled day

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