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Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 1:07:29 PM

WidowSpiders

Posts: 37
Joined: 2/17/2007
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How many of you have discovered that your sub/slave has either a serious mental illness or a personality disorder?

Mental illness is not an uncommon disease in any population, but we have noticed that several disorders are very common among those identifying as submissives:

Depression or Bipolar:
Many subs/slaves have very low self esteems and feel miserable with their positions in life. While in the beginning, they promise that this melancholy is only due to the fact that they have no Domme, once they are collared, it is discovered that the condition is not situational.

Borderline Personality Disorder:
Borderline personality disorder is characterized by intense love/hate relationships, intense abandonment issues, sabotaging of relationships, impulse control problems, and self mutilation and other attention getting devices. This person makes comments of the following: "Now you hate me and are going to leave me! I'm sorry, but I can't promise you'll wake up without me bleeding. I need those pills! You just want to hurt me, don't you?" While the intense adoration at the beginning of the relationship is alluring, a pattern of neglect and resentment appears. A major reason people with this disorder enter this lifestyle is because they hope that if they become someone's slave, they will not be as easily dumped as they could be in a vanilla relationship.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Narcissism is a convinction that your needs come first, that every thing a person does is done to affect you, and that you are entitled to more than others. They will only perform when it immediately gets their needs met, they focus entirely on their kinks, and they ignore your hard limits and interests. They focus on their appearance either by fishing for compliments or insulting themselves so that you have little choice but to focus on them. They tend to be passive aggressive and manipulative, topping from the bottom or outright whining to you or others that you aren't "doing it right."

Obviously, getting a professional diagnosis is a good idea rather than slapping on labels, but honestly, when it gets bad enough that you as a lay person can identify it, it is time to bail!

Keeping in mind that personality disorders are not easily treated, even with medications, have any of you successfully kept a relationship happily going with someone with a personality disorder?

Post #: 1

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 1:23:19 PM

LadyHibiscus

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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As a dominant with severe clinical depression, and way too much lay knowledge of medicine generally, I can say that there are many people in the scene who have mental health issues. Their orientation does not have all that much to do with it.

Deciding whether to bail is a tough one. My former slave had narcissistic disorder, PTSD, delusional disorder... but those were not the things that ended our relationship. When you have made a commitment to a person, does leaving them when their illnesses flare fit with your personal ethical framework? Would you leave that person if they developed kidney failure and needed dialysis, or if they became disabled in some other way?

It's incredibly difficult to maintain a relationship with someone who has a mental illness or mood disorder if that person does not want to improve their condition, or even recognize it. It's also hard to remember that a dominant is not a therapist (even if he or she IS a mental health professional!), and there is only so much "fixing" a person can do.

If you google one of the disorders listed above, you can read the exact symptoms, and get some idea of the real numbers of folks who are affected---and the numbers are NOT as high as one might think! It's possible for someone to be a completely selfish and insufferable jerk WITHOUT having an official syndrome!

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Post #: 2

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 1:42:37 PM

PanthersMom

Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
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is anyone totally mentally healthy? if anyone thinks so, i'd really like to meet them, i might need the research project material.
PM

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Post #: 3

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 1:43:19 PM

SnowRanger

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline

Hello All,

A few years back, I was going through a rough patch (death of a parent, somewhat disabling injury, insomnia, bad work situation); and, I was diagnosed with depression. Once that label was stuck on me, it became impossible to shake. Time has healed the grief and the injury, I changed the work situation and I can sleep at the drop of a hat. The depression label is still there.

Most people would consider me a happy person and I would too. I belive that you have to "Be to Do to Have." What I mean is, that rather than relying on someone or something to make you happy; you must, declare you're self to be happy, do things that make you happy, then you'll have it.

No one, dominant or submissive, should ever hang their well being on an other person. Conversely... 'nuff said. This should be an interesting discussion.

Happily Resectful,
Mike
SnowRanger

_____________________________

You can't help where you were born; and, you may not have much to say about where you die; but, you can and you should try to pass the days in between as a good man.
Anton Myrer Once an Eagle

(in reply to WidowSpiders)

Post #: 4

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 2:07:27 PM

suhlut

Posts: 622
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnowRanger

Hello All,

A few years back, I was going through a rough patch (death of a parent, somewhat disabling injury, insomnia, bad work situation); and, I was diagnosed with depression. Once that label was stuck on me, it became impossible to shake. Time has healed the grief and the injury, I changed the work situation and I can sleep at the drop of a hat. The depression label is still there.

Most people would consider me a happy person and I would too. I belive that you have to "Be to Do to Have." What I mean is, that rather than relying on someone or something to make you happy; you must, declare you're self to be happy, do things that make you happy, then you'll have it.

No one, dominant or submissive, should ever hang their well being on an other person. Conversely... 'nuff said. This should be an interesting discussion.

Happily Resectful,
Mike
SnowRanger

i don't understand what you mean when you say that the label is still there.. Does that mean that Doctors still see You as being depressed, or does it mean that what other people in society think?

Cause either way, i think theres ways that you can rid yourself of that label.

If its doctors, and they are still perhaps giving perscriptions for anti depressents, its time to make a new appointment, or find NEW doctors that can see that there is indeed an ending to something that made you depressed in the past. People don't stay in the same level of sadness or depression their whole lives through.. Its perfectly understandable to see that a person is sad... or has entered into a deeper level of depression, after having the world come crashing down on them, with such things as death of a parent, child, loved one, loss of a job,and injury or illness.

Those same things are also no reason to diagnose a person as "clinically depressed".. perhaps they should come up with another diagnosis term, like "Cercumstantial depression" If the same type of drugs help in both cases, thats great, but at the same time, they need to know that in such cases, things get better with time. i mean everyone loses parents to death everyday.. and nearly all of them feel feelings of sadness. THATS not clinical depression.. its a normal reaction, and time can and will make things better.

Thats not saying that a person cant be really "clinically depressed", after losing loved ones to death, i think clinical depression lies in how far a person enters into the depression. Surely there are people that cant handle lifes downs and slip in deeper.
But also, at the same time, it shouldnt be a lifetime label stuck on someone that just happens to talk to a doctor over how they are feeling after lifes downs. Those same people should be able to talk over and convince the same doctor that they are better, that they no longer are living lives filled with depression.. if they can prove that, without the use of drugs to help, that they are fine and happy, then they should be no longer diagnosed as being depressed.

Now,on the other hand, if what you mean is that the general public still label you as depressed, well then, just stop telling people you used to be depressed, proof is in the pudding, if people see a generally happy person, they will no longer label you..

That means its time for you to stop labeling yourself.

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Post #: 5

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 2:52:46 PM

PeonForHer

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Snow,

What Suhlut said, plus:

Depression is so, so common. It's the mental equivalent of a broken limb - it usually fixes eventually. I know about other people's attitudes, but aside from that pain in the ass - it's no more reason to feel stigmatized than having once had a broken limb, either.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 10/24/2008 2:54:20 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 3:41:26 PM

WidowSpiders

Posts: 37
Joined: 2/17/2007
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Well, fortunately, depression is treatable. We have suffered from extreme cases in the past, and can attest to the horror of living under the heavy blanket of misery. Thank goodness for drugs and positive friends!

Unfortunately, personality disorders are not as treatable. It would be lovely if they were. They are typically treated with heavy therapy and anti-depressants.

Our taste in people leads us to be attracted to those with depression. While this is not a problem, and treatment is always the best option, we did make a horrible mistake. We excused terrible behavior patterns and insults with the likelihood of clinical depression.

It is our belief that it is best to give and work with any medical condition.

We hung our hats on depression, and when we realized that it was not depression, we found ourselves having rationalized almost a year of a emotional abuse by this person. We found him a good therapist and paid for over a year of medication. Yet several months later, and the passive aggressive behavior continued. One night he told us that "you know I'm depressed and have personality disorders, so every time you complain about me being rude and ungrateful, you are attacking me!"

There was simply nothing that could be said. Ironically, we knew that if we disagreed with him there, he would point to it and say that we were still abusing him.

Thank goodness depression is treatable! Personality disorders, sadly, take a great deal more effort.

Perhaps a clarification is in order:

How many of you have been in relationships with people who have had a personality disorder? Depression is not a personality disorder.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 7

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 4:55:53 PM

thetammyjo

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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Both Fox and I are survivors of very early and repeated childhood abuse. Being that we are both by nature intelligent and creative people we each developed (though in different forms) what was once called Multiple Personality Disorder.

We both know this freaks out a lot of folks so we part of our gratitude is that we found each other.

However not everyone I've trained (over 3 dozen so far) nor everyone I've owned (only three of those) ever mentioned my MPD as a problem.

MPD is a survival mechanism, nothing more really. It isn't an addiction or chemical imbalance. In general once you know about it and start dealing with your past and learning to make better decisions, the alternative personalities can learn to get along well and many times fade into the back ground because they are no longer needed to survive.

Oh, and Fox and I celebrated 9 years together earlier this month. My previous slaves were owned for 9 months and 18 months -- those I trained, training is a set period of 4 months period then most move on, feeling they've learned enough to go out and find a good partner but we aren't a good match beyond friendship. I also played with a lot of folks when I was first learning and the dealt with my alts not at all because they frankly hadn't earned enough trust to interact with them.

Two of my limits has to do with mental illnesses.

1) You are either aware of what is wrong and actively working on it or you're out the door. If I can do that, you can do that.

2) I don't trust chemical or medicine only solutions... too easy to just stop and then wreck havoc with things.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 10/24/2008 4:58:37 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 5:01:17 PM

VampiresLair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WidowSpiders
Keeping in mind that personality disorders are not easily treated, even with medications, have any of you successfully kept a relationship happily going with someone with a personality disorder?

Fox and I have a very happy relationship going even though there is unmedicated Bipolar Disorder present.
I am bipolar, have been diagnosed since I was 17. I tried medications, and they didnt do a thing for me except make me depressed instead of bipolar. Not an improvement in my book.
If I did not tell you I was bipolar, you would never know. I am self controlled simply because I hated the meds, but it wasnt going to go away wihtout some sort of control.

DV

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10/18 Wedding date. 1 year and still blissfully happy

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(in reply to WidowSpiders)

Post #: 9

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 6:54:12 PM

LPslittleclip

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i am a combat nurse and i have noticed a high percentage of individuals who have certain mental chalenges. the ones in paticular are the ones that are related to seratonin and doppamine levels in the brain. adhd and bipolar and epilipsy depression ect. i have been looking into this and i have a idea that it may be a way to self medicate the body for the laking chemical as the ones released by the play are the same as the ones needed to stabilize the person. this is in nop way a scientific reasearch but it does have some intersting posibilitys.
as for me i have adhd and i dont feel it is a disorder but a diffrence in the anatomy of the human. i do take meds regularly and i do have a wonderfull relationship. i think that it is a part of the whole in the relationship. there never seems to be a perfect partner all of uss have traits and faults that are part of us and need tobe considered.

(in reply to VampiresLair)

Post #: 10

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 6:54:31 PM

SnowRanger

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline

Hi Suhlut,

Here's the skinny on the depression label. In order to access a fund in my medical insurance, I am required to participate in a health screening. Every year since it started it lists depression as an "existing condition." There seems to be a flag on my file or some such. It's all very private, what with HIPA and all; but, it seems to be part of a permanent record somewhere in insurance land.

I don't discuss this sort of thing with anybody. Only my Mistress and one other person even know. And now all of you... ooopppsss.

Of course, if we meet in person someday... And somebody puts a name with a face with a condition... I doubt anybody will be shouting it out from the rafters. UH... Right?

Happy even though I reveal WAY too much,
Mike
SnowRanger

_____________________________

You can't help where you were born; and, you may not have much to say about where you die; but, you can and you should try to pass the days in between as a good man.
Anton Myrer Once an Eagle

(in reply to suhlut)

Post #: 11

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 7:45:16 PM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

is anyone totally mentally healthy? if anyone thinks so, i'd really like to meet them, i might need the research project material.
PM

I agree with this 100%, no in fact 200%

And I also strongly disagree that this is a submissives thing - it's a people thing. You see right from birth you experience such a thing known as life, which brings you into contact with other people. The most important effect of this life and contact with other people is (1) a past and (2) a certain amount of emotional baggage and yes, some of this may actually be a mental illness or a personality disorder.

But then again you have people with chronic health conditions such as diabetes, asthma, eczema, epilepsy, irritable bowel syndrome, but how come we never get to see a thread asking whether it's worth having a relationship with an asthmatic domme or a diabetic sub? Why does it have to be different when it comes to mental illness or some sort of personality disorder?

You know sometimes it makes me wonder. It really does. I am a transgendered female. I have gender dysphoria, a mental condition - not an illness, a condition. It just means I need some modifications to be completely my whole gender. But does having this condition mean that I am unfit for a relationship? I mean I am still a person, I still have a mind, a heart, thoughts, ideas, feelings, skills, abilities, etc etc.

But looking at it a certain way it does seem to give me a handicap. Sometimes it seems that although I am able-bodied I am disabled. Successful relationships? Yes there have been successful relationships, service type relationships, maiding, doing housework for dommes, cleaning their homes, certain types of play, but not what we would call a relationship, as in a romantic sub dom relationship. I'm 42 years old and have never had a successful long term relationship of that nature, have no idea what it means to be loved, to share intimacy, or aything else which goes together with a relationship. I've always been nothing more than the second option, my being transgendered has always been explained as 'a problem', or 'an issue', and I have never really been in a relationship with someone as a primary partner. But you know I'm patient. It might still happen.

But then again I'm sure I'm not the only one going through such a period, and I'm pretty sure it's not really because I am transgendered, but because I'm..... defective in some way. This makes me wonder what it's actually like for people out there who do have issues such as bipolar, mental illnesses and emotional disturbances? And what about people with pasts such as abuse, substance misuse, criminal records and alcoholism?

You see when I form a friendship with someone or try to form a relationship with them I see them as a person, and fail to see whatever issue they have as something separate. It's part of them. I wouldn't discount anyone with such an issue, in fact I would want to know all about their illness so I could be a better more suitable and supportive partner for them.

The way I see it if you're born of a mother then you are worthy of someone's love. It doesn't matter who you are, if you have a mother then you are someone who is worthy of love, and the way I see it love doesn't have eyes, it doesn't look at photos, but merely exists between two people. Is there anyone alive in this world today who is resistant to love, or for whom love has a negative effect on them?

Therefore no I have never had a successful relationship, or rather nobody has ever had a successful relationship - a primary one - with me, but I live in hope.

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Post #: 12

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 8:12:25 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
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I had a sub with BPD and NEVER again will I go through that. It was a nightmare dealing with all of his issues.

~Lashra

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“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to WidowSpiders)

Post #: 13

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 8:25:49 PM

suhlut

Posts: 622
Joined: 7/20/2007
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stella,
its been nice watching what you post lately, shows me a person that is going through some good changes, and i like it.. wasn't too sure about you in past after reading things you posted, but its nice to see the things your writing about now.. Opening yourself up, and allowing others a good look at what it is like to be you.

A few things you have said in this thread, have really touched my heart, and yanked.

For me.. maybe thats really been my problem all of my life.. when you say that anyone born from a mother deserves love, it was that exact person that showed me i didn't deserve to be loved.

i hate the whole blaming other people for my issues crap, but, when you really think about it, if its something thats been engrained into a person, from the very first years of a persons life, how can it be anything, but that other persons fault?

Regardless.. i spent my teen years, first being raped.. and then following that...looking for love in the beds of men that wanted nothing more then what i was so willing to share. None of them loved me, of course.

Who else can i blame.. other then the one woman that convinced me that i was unworthy of love, my own mother?

And the thing is... nothing ever seems enough, i have found love, in bounty...and yet i still seek it in others. I feel like a huge empty sponge sometimes thirsty for love.

Sometimes.. a sudden wave will overcome me.. of a need for a hug.. which feels HUGE..and physical.. and real.. that burns with real heat, and echos the complete emptiness.. and has me soon balled up..and crying tears that are filled with the same heat that overcame me in that wave.

That same sensation washed over me.. after the first moments of seeing my mothers body after she died.. and overwhelmed me with the knowledge that gone was the only woman in the world.. that could have ever changed how this feels.

< Message edited by suhlut -- 10/24/2008 8:41:30 PM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 9:32:01 PM

VivaciousSub

Posts: 446
Joined: 9/7/2008
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

It's incredibly difficult to maintain a relationship with someone who has a mental illness or mood disorder if that person does not want to improve their condition, or even recognize it.

Amen, LH. I have a severe form of bipolar disorder and I've worked extraordinarily hard to maintain the sanity that most take for granted. I've been in relationships with people who also have mental illnesses, and since each party kept doing what they needed to in order to keep themselves well and healthy, the relationship was fine.

OP, I sense a large amount of sweeping generalizations and medically inaccurate knowledge in your post. Lay people can NOT and should NOT be diagnosing their significant others, bipolar disorder is NOT a personality disorder, and frankly your post reminds me of someone who is far too opinionated based on far too little understanding.

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Post #: 15

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 10:00:12 PM

faithbunny

Posts: 99
Joined: 10/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
Is there anyone alive in this world today who is resistant to love, or for whom love has a negative effect on them?

I think a fair number of people are resistant to love. I've found that men tend to risk their bodies but protect their hearts. My beloved had been through some betrayals and certainly fell in love with me kicking and screaming all the way.

As for the OP's question, it's not a personality disorder, but my beloved (a dom) has Asperger Syndrome, and I (a sub) appear to be borderline aspie myself, if those online tests and my two autistic kids are any indication. I've often felt like an anthropologist in my own relationship, having to take a step back and logically explain my emotions to him, and don't think it wasn't frustrating, but after all these years we know each other so well that we're really low-drama. You get an odd sense of peace when you try and fail to live apart and really know that this is THE ONE and you're not settling by tolerating all the stuff that bugs you about him.

I'm really glad that I stuck around through the growing pains to get to this place with him, and I think I value Us more because I had to work so hard for it.

~faith

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 16

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 10:00:29 PM

mztresn0w

Posts: 174
Joined: 1/12/2008
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We all have issues. We either heal and move on or we don't. No one has a prefect live. We all deal with things differently. It is a good thing that people deal with their issues and seek treatment or help when they can not move on. I don't think it is just submissives/slaves that have these issues. I deal with a boss that is bipolar and sometimes it can be diffcult when he forgets to take his medication. It will get to the point that I ask him if he has forgotten to take his medication. This tends to make him realize what is happening with him. Yes at times I could walk away from him and my job. But I won't because I understand people has issues and at least he is trying to deal with his.

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Post #: 17

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 10:31:51 PM

DragonLadysFire

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Meds don't fix everything you have to work at getting through each day just like anyone else. I have Aspergers Syndrome and you learn to live day to day and have hopes, dreams, and relationships just like anyone else. You just learn to do it in your own way like everyone else does.

P.S. I want to meet someone that doesn't have some form of mental "illness" too.

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Post #: 18

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 10:39:45 PM

DreamsOfSpider

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Joined: 12/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

But then again you have people with chronic health conditions such as diabetes, asthma, eczema, epilepsy, irritable bowel syndrome, but how come we never get to see a thread asking whether it's worth having a relationship with an asthmatic domme or a diabetic sub? Why does it have to be different when it comes to mental illness or some sort of personality disorder?

Because mental illnesses and personality disorders affect what a person is like, in a way that no physical condition does. I've been depressed, and I wouldn't wish my depressed self on anyone. I was utterly miserable, incapable of happiness, and nothing anyone did helped. (Aside: Medication worked, and continues to work, completely and without side effects. I know many people who are depressed are reluctant to go that route, and so was I, until things got even worse than they'd been... so whenever it comes up I feel compelled to say: Taking medication for rest of your life is really not a problem worth mentioning, when your life is infinitely better than it was.)

Years ago, I was friends with someone who may or may not have had BPD. And he may or may not have been suicidally depressed at the time that I broke off contact with him. He may or may not have gotten engaged, as he told my answering machine the last time he attempted to re-initiate contact. (I was glad to know he was alive, even if I wasn't sure what to believe about the engagement.) He was smart, creative guy and great to talk to... when he wasn't talking about what a worthless person he was, or alluding to plans for suicide, or telling me that he loved me. I was never afraid of him, only for him.... but for years after I'd broken off our friendship, I'd flinch a little inside when I saw guys who looked like him.

I believe that there are people who damaged to the point where they relate to other people in ways that are damaging. And I don't believe that they have the "right" to anyone's love... much as I hope that someone does love my former friend, and that he is better, and that they're happy together.

Being trans, on the other hand, is only technically a mental disorder, and should not disqualify anyone from being loved. I'm sorry that it's kept you from finding a partner, Stella, and I'm glad you haven't given up hope. You shouldn't.

< Message edited by DreamsOfSpider -- 10/24/2008 10:41:21 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness - 10/24/2008 10:41:16 PM

pinnipedster

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I have chronic depression, and some personality disorders, including (I believe) autogynephila (which may suggest some narcissm, as well.). I also think I have a somewhat addictive personality, which may seem strange, since I don't smoke, do drugs, or drink to excess (even back when I did occasionally drink more, it was never a regular thing; drinking for me is nice now and then, but totally optional). But I think it's a damn good thing -- considering how hard it is for me to break bad habits even when they *aren't* physically addictive, I imagine if I ever started smoking, stopping would be extremely difficult for me.

I do think that I would be happier if I was not alone, but I understand that just being with someone wouldn't fix everything. It would, however, I think, give me more motivation to do so. (I definitely work better when the motivating factor is right in front of me, rather than being vague and distant.)

I also would note that last year, I went to a FemDom retreat, where I experienced some more intense pain play than I have before, including some mild electrical play. I was high on that for about three weeks afterward; best sustained mood I can remember being in for a long time. This made me think there is definitely something to the pain-as-therapy theory. However, recently I had some pain play which I found very enjoyable at the time, but did not produce the same lingering effects. I suspect that emotional conditions are a big factor, too.

I guess my general point is that I don't think that finding a Mistress would make everything right and perfect overnight; on the other hand, I think I could sustain a mutually satisfying relationship with one. However, I think we would have to take my mental conditions into account to some degree -- much the same way as you would have to take a physical condition into account (if your sub has bad knees, you might want to look for alternatives to kneeling). I think my problem is finding someone who knows when and how to push me just hard enough, but not too hard -- the latter causes me to go into flight reflex; but not pushing at all is likely to result in a lack of motivation on my part to serve or improve.

(in reply to mztresn0w)

Post #: 20

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> Personality Disorders and Mental Illness

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