RE: Vanilla and D/s (Full Version)

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Padriag -> RE: Vanilla and D/s (11/1/2008 10:49:25 AM)

In an effort to re-approach this discussion in a manner suggested by MR... here then is my response to the OP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I was writing to a submissive about some relationships issues and I was speaking about skills needed and I realized where some of the disconnect is between "what we do is the same as vanilla" and "D/s is a different animal altogether" and they are sort of both wrong.

While at its core, I think all relationships operate in the same way, two (or however many) people learning how to live together, nurture each other, and in short, make a relationship that is greater than the sum of the participants.  In that regard, there is no difference between D/s and vanilla.

However, assuming two couples with the same exact quality of relationships skills, the one with more experience with D/s is LIKELY (yes Leadership I realize you are going to take exception to this) to be more successful.  Not because D/s is different but because TALKING and openly doing power exchange (or authority transfer) is a "new" skillset. 

In my experience I would have to disagree, in part because what we generally refer to as a "D/s relationship" is so varied it is difficult to draw a meaningful comparison.  For example, a "vanilla" relationship with a romantic element might compare favorably enough to a "D/s" relationship that also has a romantic element as to make a comparison.  However, if that "D/s" relationship lacks any significant romatic element, say in the case of someone who "owns" a "slave" who is viewed and treated literally as such... it would be very difficult to draw a comparison as we're dealing with apples and oranges.  That said, and narrowing this down a bit...

Do I think, in my experience that if we are comparing a "romantic D/s" relationship to a "romantic vanilla" relationship, is the D/s relationship more likely to succeed?  Again I would have to say no.  In part because there are too many other variables that could put stress on the relationship... for example the fact that D/s generally can't be practiced openly and "vanilla" can presents its own set of problems.  But assuming we could equalize all this in some way until we reduced it just to the question of who was better able to apply and use authority dynamics (at this point I think we are getting well outside the realm of possibility)... I would still say no... because not everyone is equally able to apply those skills.




MadRabbit -> RE: Vanilla and D/s (11/1/2008 1:46:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
I think that's a potentially very useful suggestion.  How would you begin?


I wasn't directing this to anyone in particular in this thread. To be honest, I don't have anything I really want to contribute this time around. I was just mostly addressing a nuance I have noticed.

I might make a new thread in the future though following that line of thought.




MadRabbit -> RE: Vanilla and D/s (11/1/2008 1:52:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

What I have observed is that when someone says they are a "slave", or a "dom", or a "goddess", or some other such they are doing more than adopting a title.  They are telling us how they wish to be perceived and how they perceive themselves... a portion of their personal identity is involved, and therefor their ego.  But as it is personal, it is also all highly subjective. 


That's it in a nutshell.... the labels people apply to themselves say less about who or what they are than they do about who and what they perceive (or wish) themselves to be.
 
John



I think it comes down to how you look at these words, because I find there is two different ways of looking at them that often come into conflict on these boards.

One is looking at them in the context of labels that people appoint themselves in a kind of "Hi! My name is Bob!" name tag kind of way so everybody can perceive them a certain way.

The other context is theoretical discussion, more specifically words such as "submissive" and "slave" being used in the abstract to communicate two different theories of how to go about having a relationship. This often comes in conflict with the first because people take them as a personal sterotype as opposed to simply something purely abstract that is not directed towards any unique relationship.





Rover -> RE: Vanilla and D/s (11/1/2008 2:25:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

The other context is theoretical discussion, more specifically words such as "submissive" and "slave" being used in the abstract to communicate two different theories of how to go about having a relationship.


And that presupposes that a difference exists... a supposition to which I do not subscribe.  After years of forum discussion, nothing approaching a realistic consensus has been developed to distinguish between the two.  Telling me that no distinction exists, beyond that of a personal "feeling".
 
John




MadRabbit -> RE: Vanilla and D/s (11/1/2008 2:37:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

The other context is theoretical discussion, more specifically words such as "submissive" and "slave" being used in the abstract to communicate two different theories of how to go about having a relationship.


And that presupposes that a difference exists... a supposition to which I do not subscribe.  After years of forum discussion, nothing approaching a realistic consensus has been developed to distinguish between the two.  Telling me that no distinction exists, beyond that of a personal "feeling".
 
John


If the difference being referenced is in fact some greater divine universal definition for all of us as opposed to the general difference I as an individual associate to the two word's for my own purposes of communication, then yes, I completely agree that it's bullshit.




worshippingyou -> RE: Vanilla and D/s (11/1/2008 8:35:39 PM)

Like you, SimplyMichael, I used to think that D/s gave us D/s-ers greate insight.  Now I see it differently: now, I believe that we all have our own context in life and with relationships - be it D/s or vanilla or whatever else.  In that context, we act-out our humanness; our needs and wants, our regrets, our fleeting pleasures, our haunting pains.

It's just another one of our human short-comings to think that somehow our favorite flavor of relationship is at the center of the universe.  Galileo had the right idea.




SimplyMichael -> RE: Vanilla and D/s (11/2/2008 9:55:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: worshippingyou

Like you, SimplyMichael, I used to think that D/s gave us D/s-ers greate insight.  Now I see it differently: now, I believe that we all have our own context in life and with relationships - be it D/s or vanilla or whatever else.  In that context, we act-out our humanness; our needs and wants, our regrets, our fleeting pleasures, our haunting pains.

It's just another one of our human short-comings to think that somehow our favorite flavor of relationship is at the center of the universe.  Galileo had the right idea.


Try again, I made no such assertion.




SubbieLilPetGirl -> RE: Vanilla and D/s (11/2/2008 12:33:30 PM)

I wish that I could find someone to mix my vanilla life with. Someone that I can serve, worship, love, and adore that cherishes me and my vanilla interests as well. Granted, I am very thankful for my D/s family, but wish I could share them in my vanilla life as well. 




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