RE: Misogyny

RE: Misogyny (Full Version)

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LadyBeckett -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 7:06:32 PM)
Lady Beckett is tying Sinergy's flip flops together. [;)] While they are still on his itty bitty feet...

Leonidas -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 7:07:56 PM)
quote: I resent, more than just a little bit, the apparent general thought, that submissive males are all passive, effeminate "suck ups". I never said that they were effeminate or passive. I said that they sucked up to women. Rather than being dominant males, and focused on asserting their own dominance in the world, they do what they do to please women. Instead of just doing what they do and attracting women who are attracted to that, they suck up to women, and do for women, at the direction of women. quote: They certainly are not. And in fact, are quite adept at protecting, and providing, etc. They simply do so for their Mistress. Which is different from sucking up, exactly, how? Look, if someone wants to be a submissive man, that's fine, but they can't then turn around and say that they also have the qualities of a dominant man. Sorry, can't have it both ways. Take care of yourself Leonidas

LadyBeckett -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 7:08:12 PM)
oops, my apologies, Sinergy, got feet confused with Mr. Tiny... [;)]

LadyBeckett -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 7:12:02 PM)
quote: quote: They certainly are not. And in fact, are quite adept at protecting, and providing, etc. They simply do so for their Mistress. Which is different from sucking up, exactly, how? Okay, so are you saying then that by protecting and providing, that dominant males are sucking up to those they are protecting and providing for? If they aren't, then how not?

Leonidas -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 7:35:07 PM)
Hmmm... well, this thread isn't really about the sociobiology of sex and dominance, which I'd rather avoid anyway because it's probably going to generate a lot more heat than light around here, but OK, I'll take one crack at this. When had a large home, with a companion and slave girls, and I came home at the end of the week with a paycheck, I handed it to a slave, and said, "go and deposit this, and tonight I want an accounting of what bills will be paid". "Yes master" was the response. It was my house. I was the sovereign in it. Cut to the house with the submissive man down the street, who comes in, kneels to his mistress, and says "I have been paid mistress, here is my paycheck", to which the response is "Good boy, I am well pleased". Providing? check. Providing? check. In one case sucking up. In the other case not so much. Is it really that hard? Take care of yourself Leonidas

LadyBeckett -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 8:01:28 PM)
He works, he gets paid, he pays the bills, he looks divine in a tux, and can bake a cherry pie! Good boy! [;)]

Sundew02 -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 8:27:57 PM)
Never having taken a males entire check I can't address that particular scenerio. But I do feel my household is run a bit more along the lines of everyone feeling that they contribute to the household. The male submissive comes in the door and says "Here is my portion to help support the household" which is then placed with the Mistress' portion to provide a safe, warm environment. The male has his pride in helping out, and the Domme has her help so she isn't working two jobs more than full time (D/s and vanilla). On to the Dom home, the Master comes home with HIS money and says "I get to tell you where every single dime is going", and the reply, "Yes, Master". I like mine better, but then I would, I want all in the household to feel more than useful, I want them to feel like a contributor. Sundew

Sinergy -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 8:55:55 PM)
quote: oops, my apologies, Sinergy, got feet confused with Mr. Tiny... Happens all the time. Sinergy

LadyBeckett -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 8:57:27 PM)
You are irreplacable. [;)]

Sinergy -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 9:03:28 PM)
quote: You are irreplacable. Thank you. While I do make a mean pie, I prefer to make melt-yer-face chili, homebrewed beer, and low-carb cheesecake. Havent worn a tux in years, but imagine I still look good in one. But you and I would have issues over who got to use the flogger. [:o] JM, CBW, BTYG Sinergy

LadyBeckett -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 9:21:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: You are irreplacable. Thank you. While I do make a mean pie, I prefer to make melt-yer-face chili, homebrewed beer, and low-carb cheesecake. Havent worn a tux in years, but imagine I still look good in one. But you and I would have issues over who got to use the flogger. [:o] JM, CBW, BTYG Sinergy Maybe for a minute or two. [;)] I'm going to bed now...night all!

baileythorne -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 10:30:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January When I was praising the safety of playing in public in my post, I was imagining a meet-up between two near-strangers who lived on different coasts. To be sure, dating a local near-stranger (taking it slow) is a perfectly reasonable alternative. Sinergy, a frequent poster here, says he's looking for his new partner that way. My hook up with Lawrence from Tribe (and then CollarMe) was an anomaly for me. It's the first online, long distance hook up I've ever risked. Turned out well. However, my comment about playing in public was targeted more toward players who are local to each other. Even if you don't want to play in public, you may be able to observe a potential partner playing with others. Or make friends with folks who can give you references on a potential partner. There are still advantages to getting involved in the public community even if you don't want to play. Also, I'd like to note that when I first started, about 8 years ago, I wasn't getting naked or having sex. I was doing clothed bondage and light flogging scenes. The things I do today are things that I slowly expanded my limits to include over time. I never let a man touch my genitals in a dungeon for almost 3 years. Was just too embarrassed to have an orgasm with people watching. That is ok. Every thing is negotiable and it's not a contest. By taking baby steps, I blossomed. On my own schedule and according to my comfort level. The things I do today amaze me. Another reason for playing in a public space: it's a great way to be seen and let others get a feeling for the type of play you are into. I am a serial monogamist for the most part and I've averaged about 10-18 months per partner over 8 years. Most of them I met in dungeons. I'd seen them play. They had seen me play. We both had common friends as references. It made decisions of trust so much easier. --bailey

topcat -> RE: Misogyny (8/5/2004 11:00:42 PM)
Midear January- It's late I am tired. One question, for you (whose command of the lanuage I so respect, whose thinking I so admire): What's the opposite term for mysongy? that is, a hatred of men? I bet you know it. I bet most don't. What does that say about our culture? Stay warm, Lawrence

iwillserveu -> RE: Misogyny (8/6/2004 2:17:24 AM)
Leonidas, Since you seem to get stuck on it, let me adress your notion about the natutral state of male dominance. In another thread you stated that submissive males were like the men who hang around the campfire while the "Big Boys" hunt. I did not point out how you have a class of people not aiding a primitive tribes survival, yet able to glom food from it regularly. Insulting and wrong is not really good. Try working on your knowledge of primitive hunter/gatherer tribes and your people skills and try again. (Thank you Lady Beckett et.al for defending all us unnatural girly men who are nothing but effeminate suck ups.[:)]) Now to answer the origional question beneath the hate and fear of me.[:)] I've only seen hating of the opposite sex from alledged Dominants (Dom and Domina). Mostly male, but that is more a function of most of BDSM being male. (At first men sent me the "On your knees, bitch letters to until collar me made males blue and they figured out I'm not a hairy, flat chested chick.) I've seen and gotten my share of "Little piggie" notes from Dominas. I've never even heard of a sub/slave hating the opposite sex. (OK, not counting homosexuality. [I mentioned that perspective someone who knows who they are![:)]])

Leonidas -> RE: Misogyny (8/6/2004 6:39:20 AM)
Iwill, you are absolutely right. I have an intense bias against you. It's not an intellectual bias, it is a more visceral, gut-level, "oh for crissakes get off your knees and be a man" kind of bias that I do try to check, but its there just the same. For what it's worth, I have the same visceral reaction to men that I meet every day who aren't officially submissives, but who exhibit similar behavior. I think that just about any man like me, if he were being honest, would confess the same. Elsewhere I have said that male slaves aren't common in my experience. This is why. In any male dominated culture, whether its modern day, or neolithic, men who kowtow to women are going to come in for some ridicule from men who don't. I agree, it was good of the women here to defend you, and rightly so. For what it's worth, I wasn't saying "suck-up" like its a bad thing. Just about any slave I've ever owned or been around would confess in a heartbeat to being an absolutely shamelss suck-up when it came to their master. As far as a man like you being a freeloader among hunter-gatherers, I don't think that would be the case, and I didn't intend to convey that. I do think, though, that a male who supplicated himself to women would, as would be the case in any male dominant society, have a difficult time being accepted as a peer by men who did not. It's not that he'd refuse to hunt, it's just that he'd probably be sent to gather with the women. You might notice that you will not see my name on a post anywhere in the "ask a Mistress" or "ask a Submissive" sections. I also don't comment on posts that deal with issues around male submission. I do what I can not to involve myself in areas where I have no interest or experience, or where the question isn't being posed for answers by dominant men. When you and I got into this discussion before, it was on a thread that you started where your initial assertion was that you couldn't see how dominant men could exist at all. Here, we're way off in left field in a thread that I started about misogyny. For what it's worth, I absolutely support your right to live your life as you see fit. I'd be lying if I told you that I don't grimace a bit seeing you on your knees. Take care of yourself Leonidas

perverseangelic -> RE: Misogyny (8/6/2004 10:05:54 AM)
misandry, no?

LadyBeckett -> RE: Misogyny (8/6/2004 10:11:50 AM)
quote: (Thank you Lady Beckett et.al for defending all us unnatural girly men who are nothing but effeminate suck ups. ) Don't thank me for something I didn't do. I do not defend "unnatural" anything. What I said was: quote: I resent, more than just a little bit, the apparent general thought, that submissive males are all passive, effeminate "suck ups". They certainly are not. And in fact, are quite adept at protecting, and providing, etc. They simply do so for their Mistress.

LadyBeckett -> RE: Misogyny (8/6/2004 10:14:49 AM)
misandry is indeed, the hatred of men. One would think we could find better things to do with our time and emotions.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Misogyny (8/6/2004 10:43:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topcat What's the opposite term for mysongy? that is, a hatred of men? I know this question was addressed to January... but I was discussing this with a friend this morning... There is no equivalent. Often people say misanthropy but that is hatred of mankind (too often used to mean humankind), not necessarily men. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Misogyny (8/6/2004 10:45:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett misandry is indeed, the hatred of men. I spoke too soon and I stand corrected. - LA

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