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Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 9:46:08 AM

bound4more

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I recall reading a post on here, years ago, by a lovely slave who I admired. When asked what is submission, she responded “submission happens when you let go of what it is you seek in submission”. What do you think?

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 9:59:54 AM

zakkan

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That is a beautiful statement.

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 11:25:22 AM

kyraofMists

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I don't really perceive that statement as applying to me and the relationship I have. Submission happens when I do his will. I don't have to let go of anything in order to submit, I just have to do what I am told.

What I seek by submitting to him is to be fulfilled in my relationship. I am not looking for momentary fulfillment, but the kind that last. The kind that gives you a deeply enriching life even if there are moments that truly suck.

If I were to let go of my desire to be fulfilled in my relationship, then I would actually be disobeying him and therefore not submitting to his will.

If I had to re-word that statement so that it fit my life, it would then say,"Fulfillment in my submission cannot be reached if I hold on to the expectations that things should be done my way."

Knight's Kyra

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 11:32:13 AM

chamberqueen

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As lovely as the statement is, I think it's a balancing act. Sometimes I find myself giving so much that I only feel exhausted - no longer fulfilled. I had stopped expecting anything for myself, viewing the smallest of kindnesses as surprises, and overlooking how much my Master was growing to care for me. I actually had to start thinking MORE of myself - making sure that I started seeing in his actions the truth about how he feels for me and not wearing blinders and missing it along with making sure that I was really enjoying doing things to please him and not just going along.

It is easy to submit when you are in a good mood or when the task is easy and/or agreeable. I think the true test of submission is when one is asked to do something even if they are having a lousy day, the task pushes their boundaries, and/or it is something they would never think to do of on their own. If they can pull that off with a good attitude and an eye to pleasing their top then they have really accomplished something.

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 11:37:03 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I don't really perceive that statement as applying to me and the relationship I have. Submission happens when I do his will. I don't have to let go of anything in order to submit, I just have to do what I am told.

What I seek by submitting to him is to be fulfilled in my relationship. I am not looking for momentary fulfillment, but the kind that last. The kind that gives you a deeply enriching life even if there are moments that truly suck.

If I were to let go of my desire to be fulfilled in my relationship, then I would actually be disobeying him and therefore not submitting to his will.

If I had to re-word that statement so that it fit my life, it would then say,"Fulfillment in my submission cannot be reached if I hold on to the expectations that things should be done my way."

Knight's Kyra

***applause***

The only thing I'd add is that "doing" things is not submission to me... or barely submission anyway. The fact that I can order my wife to DO things is way less significant to our marriage than the fact that I can order her to THINK and FEEL things.

That being said, the focus on "giving" rather than "taking" is an excellent focus for any role in any relationship so there is some truth underneath bound's OP.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 12:02:41 PM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
The only thing I'd add is that "doing" things is not submission to me... or barely submission anyway. The fact that I can order my wife to DO things is way less significant to our marriage than the fact that I can order her to THINK and FEEL things.

I don't think that adds so much as gives further detail to what it means to 'do his will' in my relationship. It is his will that I maintain a certain mental and emotional stability so my thoughts and feelings have to align with his expectations. If they don't, then I am required to change them.

quote:

That being said, the focus on "giving" rather than "taking" is an excellent focus for any role in any relationship so there is some truth underneath bound's OP.

I don't think that you would find anyone in our house that disagrees with the idea that focusing on giving makes for a happier relationship than focusing on taking. However, what you are giving to is important as well. If the people in the relationship are focused on giving to one person then I imagine there will be a great deal of stress. If everyone is focused on giving to the relationship, then you do what is best for the relationship.

Knight's Kyra

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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 12:21:24 PM

bound4more

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Having read a few perspectives, I'll share my take on this statement. There is no doubt that I experience fulfillment in my service and submission. I am not wishing to indicate in any manner that the sub should not be fulfilled. But what this statement means to me is the deepest experience of submission I've had is in letting go of the desire to "feel" surrendered, submisive, dominated, satiated in some form and just give in and give up to the position I am in, one of service, giving and obedience. I used to have a hidden agenda about what was my "just do" as a result of submission, whether that "just do" was Master's attitude of dominance, acknowledgement of and/or appreciation for my service, attention to details that I may have thought were important etc. I see it as an exercise in humility, not martyrdom.

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 1:43:07 PM

spyslave

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That amazing statement came from a true sub .. I can say...

because, dom/sub relation, is largely one sided...ie, the slave is doing stuff for there owner not because of there true submission, but to fulfill there sexual desires. Once they come, then the submissive part dies down too .

If we can imagine, we would understand ... how wonderful a feeling it would be.... to just "...let go of what it is you seek in submission" ... and be a toy of ur mistresses whims and fancies...

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 2:13:51 PM

antipode

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I think it is linguistic contortionism. But then I don't like profiles where the sub posts a thirteen page poem about love, moonlight, butterflies and pain, either. Call me unromantic, go on.

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 3:15:47 PM

leadership527

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You're unromantic

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 4:21:57 PM

agirl

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I think the statement may mean something to HER and maybe to anyone that is on the same wavelength. It means absolutely nothing to me at all.

agirl

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 4:28:00 PM

DiurnalVampire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bound4more

I recall reading a post on here, years ago, by a lovely slave who I admired. When asked what is submission, she responded “submission happens when you let go of what it is you seek in submission”. What do you think?

I think more along the lines of submission is what happens when you realize that you enjoy doing things FOR someone else more than you enjoy having things done TO yourself.
Fox seems to enjoy doing even little things like my dishes, my vacuuming... but his own things he often needs promting to do. And he has never really cared what sort of activities we did around his service, be they cuddling or playing video games or more.
I do not see those who submit as a means to an end as submissive so much as bottoms. They are only doing for someone else so that they can get what they want. Someone submissive is doing for someone else becasue that is what they enjoy, making someone else happy or making their life easier, without concerning themselves with what sort of rewards they mught reap from the efforts.

My 2 cents
DV

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 5:23:48 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bound4more

I recall reading a post on here, years ago, by a lovely slave who I admired. When asked what is submission, she responded “submission happens when you let go of what it is you seek in submission”. What do you think?

I think that sounds lovely - like something I'd read in a greeting card. I also think that, like a greeting card, one has to take it for what it is. Poetic romance that doesn't apply literally, such as two hearts beating as one. For me, submission is simply the desire to submit and the act of submitting.

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RE: Submissive vs. Submission - 10/28/2008 6:05:17 PM

catize

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quote:

What do you think?

I think it is inane and meaningless.

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