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anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 11:03:11 AM

Goddess007

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Please, only respond if you can appreciate the delicate nature of My inquiry. I like to think of Myself as a very sensual Domme, always in tune with My partner's needs and responses. When something occurs in play that causes the slightest bit of distress, I think I end up far more traumatized than the sub I have "harmed", for lack of a better word. Now, it has always been something I perceived as minor and unexpected, for whatever reason just not touched upon in the course of regular conversation, and almost always a "mental" obstacle as opposed to physical, thus more elusive to define(for Me anyway, which is why I seek guidance). In this case, I had expressed interest in certain activities and met with no resistance at the time, I expect out of a desire to please Me. I don't blame him for "freaking out", so to speak, but I fetl so much remorse at having caused the obvious anxiety My actions caused in what is normally a fun and trusting relationship. My dilemma is, do I keep trying to help him get past these new experiences that I so enjoy? he has expressed willingness to do so, and has pleasantly surprised Me in other areas I personally deem more extreme, albeit on the physical side. What is the fine line between a limit and something that simply challenges someone's mental fortitude? Thank you...

Post #: 1

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 11:12:48 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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The point, for me, is pretty straightforward... at the point at which someone says "I can't/won't do this any more" that's it... no more experiments in that direction until/unless the person comes to me at a later point and says "You know X that we tried, and I freaked... well, I'd like to try that again and see if I like it better now." Up until that point, from what you describe about his willingness to continue, you still are dealing with someone who -wants- to move forward, and as long as you stay connected with the process, and make sure that you're keeping an eye out for crises that may come up, I wouldn't stop just out of discomfort.

I'd say that it sounds to me like you try hard to stay well connected with your s-type during the process... Now... if it makes -you- too uncomfortable, the same thing applies... you're perfectly entitled to say "Nope, this is just too uncomfortable a process for me."

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/28/2008 11:14:19 AM >

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(in reply to Goddess007)

Post #: 2

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 11:14:59 AM

missturbation

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quote:

What is the fine line between a limit and something that simply challenges someone's mental fortitude?

For me it would be the difference between saying........

'Master this is a limit for me'

and saying

'Master i am willing to work on this.'

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Post #: 3

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 11:15:05 AM

leadership527

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Wow, I can truly sympathize with you Goddess. For my own self, I have settled on a few points to keep me sane...

a) Remembering that she also sometimes ended up not liking things when were vanilla. We're talking about a condition of life here, not a D/s thing. Sometimes things don't go as planned with or without D/s. I only have to do at least as well as we would've done together vanilla.

b) Remembering that she is really quite durable. A few nicks and scrapes, emotional or physical, will heal over in the morning.

c) Remembering that it is her RIGHT as my life partner (forget about sub/slave/whatever) to want to please me and to be willing to give of herself to do so. If I over-protect her, I am in essence, robbing her of her right to participate fully in our marriage.

So in your case... You tried something, it didn't go according to plan (see note a -- it happens). Your sub, apparently, has survived the experience (see note b -- they usually do *laughs*). And, your sub would like to try further (see note c -- why would you disallow that unless you had compelling evidence that your sub was not able to choose wisely. If that is true, then you have some much deeper problems in terms of training your sub).

I draw the line, for the most part, when my slave tells me to draw the line. She is, after all, the world's foremost authority on her and I have a huge amount of trust in her -- including trusting her to tell me "no" even though she knows that "no" is not something I want to hear. The only way that I have an advantage over her is that I am more objective when it comes to her. Sometimes that helps me see things more clearly.

And just a side note.. I've tried lots of things in my life. Some of them, I really disliked the first time I tried them. Now, I love them. That is generally called an acquired taste and perfectly reasonable. I see your sub as trying to see if he can "acquire the taste" and so long as he's not doing that to his own demise, then what's the harm?

I hope any of that helps.
~Jeff

_____________________________

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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Post #: 4

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 11:18:10 AM

xxblushesxx

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And sometimes (for me anyway) a bit of distress (or a lot of distress) is part of the fun.
Just have a good awareness of the power exchange; the energy will be different if he's fighting you.
"Check in" with him during play using a prearranged cue so that play doesn't have to stop for the check.
Give him every option to stop it if he really needs to, but also let him know how proud you are that he does the things he does for you.
Always discuss it after, and give him time to come to terms with his submission.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 5

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 11:19:16 AM

missturbation

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Wow, this question needed rocket science to answer it?

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Post #: 6

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 12:26:53 PM

Goddess007

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Wow, thank you all(for the most part anyway, lol)for your well thought-out responses. My whole dilemma, as a total sadist, is how much more difficult it is to know where to draw that line when it is purely the mental arena being tested. I AM proud of pup, both for surprising Me in ways neither of U/us knew he could, and for being willing to try anything twice. Although bummed that I genuinely scared him, I have confidence that now that those issues have been identified, I can try again, but using baby steps. The journey is half the fun, isn't it? Thanks again...
D

(in reply to Goddess007)

Post #: 7

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 12:31:53 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess007

Wow, thank you all(for the most part anyway, lol)for your well thought-out responses. My whole dilemma, as a total sadist, is how much more difficult it is to know where to draw that line when it is purely the mental arena being tested. I AM proud of pup, both for surprising Me in ways neither of U/us knew he could, and for being willing to try anything twice. Although bummed that I genuinely scared him, I have confidence that now that those issues have been identified, I can try again, but using baby steps. The journey is half the fun, isn't it? Thanks again...
D

You have received a lot of good advice and this little bit is probably addressed already also, based on your nature - but just in case, I'll add this: When sadism or BDSM is challenging/difficult/scary on a mental (emotional) level, tops still can't forget that subs and bottoms need plenty of nurturing and aftercare to deal with whatever after effects evolve. It's challenging because you can't physically see the marks, or even know the varieties of pain or confusion, but they are there inside. You also don't know what emotions are being released later - hours later, the next day even. If your partner is holding it inside, you also aren't a mind reader, so you can't know for sure if it's been addressed. Post-communication sometimes doesn't uncover it, because what the sub/bottom feels is too hard to really identify or put into words - it just might be an overall "feeling." All of this combined can make dominants feel confused, helpless, guilty.

Make sure your partner is communicating as best they can, but in the meantime, apply as much nurturing and care as you can and feel comfortable with to deal with whatever confusing/uneasy feelings linger.

Akasha

_____________________________

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Goddess007)

Post #: 8

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 1:02:46 PM

atypicalsub

Posts: 284
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From: an atypical sub
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I am a new sub in my first real D/s relationship. My Mistress has also been very concerned about pushing me too fast. Twice I have felt a bit disappointed that she ended scenes even though I told her it would be okay to continue a bit longer. I did not dwell on it afterward. She is far more experienced and I trust her judgement. We use the green, yellow, red codes so I can let her know if I need her to ease up or stop an activity. We also have a panic word that will end everything instantly if I ever felt the need; such as if something were to trigger a tramatic mental connection. If you take these reasonable precautions I don't think you should worry about pushing your sub too hard. Talk to your sub immediately after to understand how it made them feel. Then later, perhaps the next day after they are rested, talk about it and ask if they think they might be able to push a bit further next time.

Always keep in mind that limits and the abilities to push them are extremely personal. What seems extreme to one personal could be boring to another. What you take as the mundane could send someone else into a panic. I *gave* my Mistress a knife to bleed me. I was ready for that. Yet we are still working on me staying still for her to spank my ass. I'm excited about cross dressing and loved her making me up, but an emory board to smooth my nails was the only time I ever went 'red' with her. Wish I knew why but I just couldn't handle that. We discuss these things and work on them together. If she never pushed my limits I would never have the opportunity to grow past them.

_____________________________

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"Do not do anything you are ashamed of, and don't be ashamed of anything you do"
(although I'm sure my bio-family wishes I did less and was ashamed of more)

(in reply to Goddess007)

Post #: 9

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 2:15:25 PM

NihilusZero

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The important thing here is not the nicks and cuts that may come along the way, but the way he will interpret them when they happen. If he trusts you implicitly and understands it's his job to being forthcoming and honest with you about thresholds, the awareness that bumps will happen should follow and, if he accepts that without the slightest bit of personal regret or resentment everything should be just fine.

_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
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I know that I'm to blame."
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Post #: 10

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/28/2008 9:10:29 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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I think the answer depends on how well this partner can be trusted to know himself and how to communicate it honestly and freely to you. Once you have that, the actions themselves tend to be fairly irrelevant.

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Post #: 11

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/29/2008 5:53:59 AM

RealSub58

Posts: 1073
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From a sensual domme (I like to think of Myself as a very sensual Domme) to total sadist (My whole dilemma, as a total sadist,) in one thread...this confuses me !

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 12

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/29/2008 6:49:31 AM

DarkSteven

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Your sub may have a hard time using his safeword. Play with him, and tell him to safeword you. Make him do it until he is comfortable with the concept.

You're worrying about his distress. Safewords are designed to let subs make the call and relieve Tops of the worry.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Post #: 13

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/29/2008 8:06:56 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

From a sensual domme (I like to think of Myself as a very sensual Domme) to total sadist (My whole dilemma, as a total sadist,) in one thread...this confuses me !

I have to ask why is this? It's no different than any other person who has more than one facet about themselves when it comes to wiitwd. Would you think that a sadist can not be sensual as well? It's not as though a person has to chose one and exclude the other. Both really can co-exist.

G007, what you might be experiencing just now is a little remorse. In other words, you have your own touch of anxiety because the boy freaked and it wasn't expected. Unexpected reactions can happen during play. Even to those of us who would like to think we are especially in tune with the bottom.

Deal with what happened, on both sides. Start talking about why it may have happened and how each of you felt about it. Then you can decide on how you want to proceed, if at all in this area.

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Post #: 14

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/29/2008 12:02:38 PM

Goddess007

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Joined: 5/3/2007
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Wow, as I should have expected, what I perceived as a setback has actually bonded pup and I further. Thanks to all the WONDERFUL insight, I made a plan that may or may not be useful to other D/s couples...It was so obvious, really, but hard to see through My guilt(that was the right word aakasha, ty). I planned a variety of his favorite activities that I rewarded him with throughout the evening. The response, as you can imagine, was extremely positive. Then, once his tail was absolutely wagging, I GENTLY incorporated elements of the aforementioned activities. Much like atypical mentioned with the nail files, his aversion was unidentifyable to him, but once assured he was safely wrapped up in My care, his impressionability skyrocketed. What a trooper...Oh, and Lady, you are absolutely right...I reserve the right to give the softest kiss in the world while administering a brutal twist elsewhere, lol!

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Post #: 15

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/29/2008 12:18:41 PM

AAkasha

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Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess007

Wow, as I should have expected, what I perceived as a setback has actually bonded pup and I further. Thanks to all the WONDERFUL insight, I made a plan that may or may not be useful to other D/s couples...It was so obvious, really, but hard to see through My guilt(that was the right word aakasha, ty). I planned a variety of his favorite activities that I rewarded him with throughout the evening. The response, as you can imagine, was extremely positive. Then, once his tail was absolutely wagging, I GENTLY incorporated elements of the aforementioned activities. Much like atypical mentioned with the nail files, his aversion was unidentifyable to him, but once assured he was safely wrapped up in My care, his impressionability skyrocketed. What a trooper...Oh, and Lady, you are absolutely right...I reserve the right to give the softest kiss in the world while administering a brutal twist elsewhere, lol!

So glad to hear it's working out well. The combination of sadist + sensualist (as mentioned in another part of this thread) and the idea of a femdom feeling some guilt, insecurity, discomfort over her feelings and his reactions - this should not be seen as a bad thing by subs and femdoms alike. For one, a lot of us are just wired that way. Two, anything that has to do with emotions, feelings, even if they are raw - this only gets couples to a better place of understanding. Sometimes it's hard, but it's worth it.

I wish to hell there was a better word for "guilt" though. I have a difficult time explaining to people that when I feel *guilty* as a result of dominating someone, I'm in the best place. First, it feels as intense, if not more, than orgasm. Second, it keeps me feeling human. If I feel guilty, it means I was able to go to scary places or close to my own limits. It's not a bad kind of guilt. It's a raw emotion. In some ways, I consider it the femdom version of the vulnerability I seek so intensely in my partners - it's a "holy shit!" kind of euphoric guilt that washes over with affection, deep gratitude, a glow, a "I can't believe you endure all this for *ME*" warmth and appreciation - and that's ALL good. Sometimes it's just a flicker of a moment, a feeling. Other times it washes over me so intensely I have to have a good cry about it.

I can be incredibly cruel (to a willing and eager participant) and when it feels real and scares me, and I am reminded that I have total empathy and don't want to harm anyone, especially someone so willing to do that for me, it's like an alignment of planets that set off a chain reaction in me. The guilt feels good. It feels raw and real. Good power exchange is a deeply emotional and intense ride, on TOP of all the wild physical and erotic sensations - what could be better?

Akasha

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

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RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/29/2008 12:29:39 PM

cagliostro

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I know this is a little weird but you can try it. A lot of times first experiences can be overwhelming. New things, in or out of BDSM, can just be a lot to take. So you can try visualization. Have pup listen to you verbally act out a scene you have planned. Be sure to include things like how you feel doing whatever you're doing, and the look on your face, etc. Try to keep it as vivid as you can. The better job you do, the better prepared, mentally, he'll be. It can help dull the shock or unpleasant reaction to something. Especially if you communicate how much you enjoy things. Sounds like he really does want to please you.

Just a thought.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 17

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/29/2008 1:40:12 PM

QandA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Your sub may have a hard time using his safeword. Play with him, and tell him to safeword you. Make him do it until he is comfortable with the concept.

You're worrying about his distress. Safewords are designed to let subs make the call and relieve Tops of the worry.

I have a very hard time using safewords... I'm getting better, but it's still something that I struggle with. My Sir knows this and has done quite a bit to encourage me to communicate with him. I tend to do better with non-verbals, so when we're doing any sort of impact play he'll typically have me hold on to him with one hand... if things get to much I'm to dig my nails into his arm (or leg, or whatever I've got a hold of at the moment). That way, he's got a pretty sensitive gauge as to how I'm doing... the harder I squeeze the more intense it is for me.... until I get to the point where I'm clawing him. It's still not considered a safeword, though, so it's still completely his choice as to how to proceed.

His responsiveness to my non-verbal signals has helped me build up the confidence to use my voice more. That, and him drilling into my head is that the only time he'll be disappointed in me is if I don't safeword and try to take more than I can.

As to soft limits... the first time I met Q I gave him a pair of riding crops that I'd had from a previous relationship. My former "Master" was rather harsh with them, and I'd pretty much convinced myself that I hated crops. Q had mentioned in an IM conversation that he wanted to buy another crop to replace one he'd had before. I told him, "you can have these as long as you don't use them on me".

We got to know each other better, talked lots more, and I got more comfortable with him. He would bring crops us in passing during some of our conversations, telling me how fun they could be. He was very gentle about it and would back off when the topic distressed me too much. He intrigued me to the point where I mentioned that I would be ok with being re-introduced to crops.

The first time I knew that I was going to be hit with a crop I was pretty freaked out. Yet, I trusted my Sir completely and wanted to push myself to please him. I'm so glad that we both pushed my limits. I very much enjoy how Q uses a crop with me now.

I know that my Sir cares for me very deeply and does not like to see me upset. Yet, if he'd retreated every time I got anxious then we'd have made no progress at all. As Q likes to tell me "you don't have to be comfortable, but you'll always be safe."

I must remember to thank my Sir sometime soon for caring enough about me to put himself into an uncomfortable position so that I can get over my soft limits and enjoy our play for fully.

lil Aidan

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 18

RE: anxiety vs soft limits ? - 10/29/2008 5:46:10 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
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Talk to him and ask if he is okay with you deliberately causing panic or anxiety attacks. If he isn't, then drop that line and try something else. Wait a couple of months and then talk about it, if he still gets anxious at the thought of doing it, then drop it until he brings it up.

You aren't a trained therapist I'm assuming so you aren't able to help him move past this. And even if you are a professional, you shouldn't be practicing your craft on your partner, that's unethical. It's his job to decide if he wants to move past it or not, don't use his desire to please as an excuse to do something that causes him emotional difficulties every time unless he explicitly consents to it.

Besides, some things he may never be able to work through no matter what. The more you push, and the more he has a bad reaction each time, the worse he will feel about himself. He'll build this molehill into a mountain of failure. Is that what you want?

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(in reply to QandA)

Post #: 19

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