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Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of America!! - 10/30/2008 2:23:43 PM   
UncleNasty


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This a cut paste from a site I check in with regularly. It presents a much different picture of the housing crisis than the media typically shows us. It is among the better presentations I've seen and from what I have learned and researched presents more of the truth than just about anything else out there.

I have studied this issue in depth for the past year. I've read countless stories, read over 500 case files, covered court procedings, court orders, given interviews, corresponded with hundreds of individuals across the country, maintain correspondence with some journalists........

Even in the face of the burgeoning (and ongoing, as we are far from it being over) economic crisis the story isn't being published, distributed or told by the main stream media. Occassionally Amir Efrati with WSJ, or Gretchen Morgenson of NYT, does a human interst story about one, or a few select individuals. But the overall patterns of criminal and unethical behavior on the part of loan originators, mortgage brokers, loan servicers, is rarely if ever brought into the light. Local media offers even less coverage than national publications.

As alarming as anything in this mess is the behavior of the courts, and the lack of adherance to laws, rules and procedures. In short, if the courts were doing their jobs, even local and state courts, we likely wouldn't be in the mess we're in. Some Federal jurisdictions have begun to catch on to the defects in alleged lenders claims but primarily the courts are either ignorant of the laws, or simply refusing to enforce the laws.

Take a look at this, if you will, and offer any comments you care to.

I checked a number of the links and all those I did worked fine. Each site also has additional links with additional information.

Uncle Nasty

***************************************************************

The foreclosure of America.
Millions of homes in foreclosure. It’s common belief that these people who are losing their homes are because of ARM payments going up. It’s also accepted that many have had personal disasters in their lives that kept them from being able to afford their mortgage payments. But in media or political references, it’s almost always the borrowers fault. They took out loans that they could not afford.
It’s those BAD EVIL borrowers fault that our economy is falling apart. It’s those BAD EVIL borrowers that forced us to sell our grand children’s futures so that we have NOW.
SHAME ON YOU if you are one of those BAD EVIL borrowers.
But is that the real truth?
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/09/emc.shtm
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/11/fairbanks.shtm
Apparently not in ALL cases. It looks like there has been some illegal practices in the mortgage servicing sector of the financial world.
If one went to Rip off report
http://www.ripoffreport.com/ & typed in a few names of some mortgage servicing companies- what would one get? Try it.
Litton loan servicing
http://www.ripoffreport.com/searchresults.asp?q5=Litton+Loan+Servicing&q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0&submit2=Search%21
Ocwen

http://www.ripoffreport.com/searchresults.asp?q5=Ocwen&q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0&submit2=Search%21
America’s servicing company

http://www.ripoffreport.com/searchresults.asp?q1=ALL&q2=&q3=&q4=&q5=&q7=&q6=Americas%20home%20servicing&searchtype=0
Ameriquest

http://www.ripoffreport.com/searchresults.asp?q5=Ameriquest&q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0&submit2=Search%21
EMC mortgage servicing company

http://www.ripoffreport.com/searchresults.asp?q5=EMC&q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0&submit2=Search%21
Notice how their stories seem very much the same?
Then there are little stories like this:
http://www.consumerwarningnetwork.com/2008/09/09/bear-stearns-emc-agree-to-pay-28-million-in-settlement/#more-195
So it seems that there is a bit more to this story than meets the eye. It looks like some of these companies have “quotas” to meet. Their goals are not to fairly service the loans, but to manufacture default so that very profitable fee’s can be assigned.
Loans are originated, then pooled together & securitied , sold to investors. Once this happens the servicing rights for that pool are sold to a servicing company who does nothing more than collect payments & transfer the money to the trustee of the loan pool, who then distributes the money to the investors in that loan pool. For this work, the servicer collects a small portion of the payment. But they get to keep all fees associated with the collection of this amount. So the practice of mortgage servicing fraud began.
Payments applied late when they were made on time. Payments are split to pay fee’s first, leaving payment short, & the borrower in default. Suspense accounts created, holding money that should have applied to the account. Huge unexplained corporate advances, legal fee’s & unexplained fee’s---all go to the servicers bottom line. They make more money when the borrower is in default.
Their allegiance is to protect the investor. To collect the money & keep that loan profitable (performing) for the investors. But in their greed, as they collected the illegal fee’s, they forgot that they were destroying the very loan pools that they were to protect.
Use the most recent case the FTC investigated as example.
EMC was charged with:

THE FTC COMPLAINT

The complaint charges Bear Stearns and EMC with violating the FTC Act, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), and the Truth in Lending Act’s (TILA) Regulation Z.
FTC Act Violations:
The defendants are charged with unfair and deceptive loan servicing practices in violation of the FTC Act. They allegedly misrepresented the amounts consumers owed; assessed and collected unauthorized fees, such as late fees, property inspection fees, and loan modification fees; and misrepresented that they possessed and relied upon a reasonable basis for their representations about consumers’ loans.
Fair Debt Collection Practices Act Violations:
The defendants allegedly violated several provisions of the FDCPA in collecting loans that were in default when they obtained them. They also allegedly made harassing collection calls; falsely represented the character, amount, or legal status of consumers’ debts; and failed to communicate that debts were disputed. In addition, they allegedly used false representations or deceptive means to collect, and failed to send consumers a validation notice containing the amount of the debt and the consumer’s right to dispute the debt and obtain verification of the debt.
Fair Credit Reporting Act Violations:
The FTC alleges that the defendants furnished information about consumers’ payment status to credit reporting agencies (CRAs). When consumers informed the defendants that they disputed the completeness or accuracy of the reported information, the defendants failed to report the dispute to the CRAs as required by the FCRA.
Truth in Lending Act’s Regulation Z Violations:
The complaint also states that the defendants charged borrowers a loan modification fee, typically $500, and automatically added the fee to the modified loan’s principal balance. In doing so, the defendants failed to provide the borrowers with required TILA disclosures.

EMC intentionally put loans into default & charged illegal fee’s. As the borrower struggles to keep up with the ever amounting late fee’s, property preservation fee’s, force placed insurance costs, legal fee’s & corporate advances, their credit history is being manipulated & eventually they either drive the borrower into bankruptcy, to abandon the home or to go to lengthy legal approach where in most cases is unaffordable.
I wonder how many homes they illegally foreclosed upon?
I wonder how much they stole from each homeowner?
I talked to a group of people who are fighting EMC & the general consensus is that they assign somewhere around $27,000 in misc fee’s which is then added to the total amount owed. That’s a hefty price for people who actually made their payments on time. Most could not afford this big price tag. Most lost their homes.
Another group of EMC fighters are in a special category. They are the Superior Bank loan holders. Superior Bank went bust back in 2001. The FDIC took control & sold the loan pools to EMC. The group claims their loans were considered toxic & foreclosure proceedings started immediately upon transferring from the FDIC to EMC in 2002, even though they had made all the required payments on time. When each & every payment was proved to be made on time (in court)- it still did not stop the huge boulder of fee’s from rolling over the borrower & them losing their homes. They claim that the FDIC sold them off into a sea of deceit, knowing what would happen & turning their backs on them. They feel that if these loans were actually toxic, then the FDIC should have informed the borrower.
For years the Superior Bank borrowers have made complaints to all the regulating bodies about EMC’s servicing tactics. After 6 years of complaints, the servicer is charged & settles with the FTC. That money after divided down amongst the victims is pennies in comparison to the planned destruction of their lives.
EMC employees have been reported to call these loans “neutron loans”. Kill the homeowner (drain his bank account) but leave the home standing. This was a joke. Or was it?
This is manufactured default. It is also a large part of the failing of the loan pools that now threaten our countries entire economy.
The servicing companies profited hugely from their record earnings gained from illegal fee’s, & these companies grew by leaps & bounds, reporting record profits. CEO’s were walking away with huge bonuses, rewarding them for their deceit.
Ironically, the very practices that rewarded theme so greatly then, eventually bit them in their posteriors, & caused the break down of their parent company, Bears Stearns.
So-----Who is responsible for the breakdown here?
The borrowers have been blamed, but I think it’s deeper than that. I believe that the servicing companies who collected the payments improperly in order to increase their profits should bear the grunt of the price to be paid. The complaints are too similar, too wide spread, & far too numerous.
If we bailout the system at a cost that will be paid by the taxpayers, our grandchildren will be paying for this long after we are gone. For this huge amount- WHO will be protected?
The bankers & investors will be protected. The average American will be protected from another great depression (we hope) & all is well.
Except that the servicing of all these so called non-performing loans has not been discussed.
Once the government takes control of all this bad debt, WHO is going to be servicing these loans?
Will they treat these loans like toxic waste to the eventual result of all those Superior Bank borrowers? (Is that going to happen to the Indy Mac Borrowers? Or Country Wide?)
It appears that no changes or regulation of servicers is being planned, in spite of the recent EMC settlement to the very serious charges made by the FTC.
It remains unclear on how bailing out Wall Street will help the situation if we have mortgage servicers that are destroying the very pools that the Federal Reserve is trying to save. Or will we have to yet again step in to take over the additional pools that drop to junk statis after a servicer has wrung all the life out of the mortgages & ruined a few thousand more lives?
If you do break down the amount of the EMC settlement amount- It’s pennies per victim. The EMC fighters tell me that no information has been shared with them as to whom & how much is coming to those who faced the illegal, embarrassing & often disastrous foreclosures. They have received no information.
They want to know if there is going to be any action forcing EMC to examine their accounts & make right the many wrongs. They want to know if EMC is going to be forced to change their ways. According to the EMC fighters, the fraudulent charges & illegal practices are still occurring. Nothing has changed. Are we expecting them to just become squeaky clean?
So- Let’s review the issue.
1) For many years, EMC/Bears Stearns account holders complained to the FTC of illegal practices.
2) Most of these victims had their credit ruined, lost their homes & had their lives destroyed
3) During the years of their illegal practices & huge earnings, the CEO’s & big wigs took home huge bonuses, rewarding them for their illegal practices.
4) Most victims were so cash strapped from paying these illegal charges, they had no money for defense of this illegal foreclosure. Even when they did try to defend themselves, judges ruled for the servicers, disregarding the proof of payments from the borrowers.
5) In servicing the loans with these illegal practices, EMC/Bears Stearns destroyed the very loan pools that is causing the crisis that is affecting our entire banking system.
6) Victims of EMC are not being informed as to when or if they will be given any restitution, they are not being told how EMC is going to be regulated to keep them from performing these illegal practices in the future, they are not given instructions on how victims can fix their inaccurate credit reports that affect their future purchasing or getting jobs.
7) Bailing out these companies does not force the servicers to comply with ethical & legal practices. In fact it rewards them for their illegal acts. It encourages them to continue on servicing these mortgages illegally, illegally forcing people into foreclosure, destroying the loan pools that they are to protect & they will expect the taxpayer to bail them all out. Again. Yes they were fined. But what protections are in place to get that restitution money to the victims?


Our government has once again failed to protect Americans.
They failed to implement regulations upon the banking industry to keep them from performing illegal practices.
Now that the %$#* is hitting the fan, & the banks begin to fail, the Government steps up to protect the fraudsters by bailing them out---but what about the real victims?

Once again- the burden will fall into the laps of the victims. Their tax dollars will have to bailout the system that victimized them in the first place.


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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 5:54:23 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Uncle-  the numbers dont add up.


the mortgage problem is a smokescreen for credit default swaps- or derivatives.  

the practices were there- and eliot spitzer was taken down due to him trying to stop this.

the odd thing is- that the masses are into this election.   think of it as psy ops.

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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 6:02:49 PM   
JumpingJax


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I am not reading this entire article. It doesn't really matter here if it is the Lenders fault or the borrowers fault. Either way we should not be bailing out these companies. Instead the companies should be forced to close their doors like every other business out there that makes bad decisions and is forced to pay the price for it.

If all the banks went under tommorow someone would step in the next day with a better and more improved banking system. That is the way free market should work. BTW: It's worth noting that there are many banks that are not having problems. Right now the news seems to imply that they are all in trouble, and yes a lot and some very big ones are in trouble. BUT there are plenty of other banks around this country that have protected themselves (and their customers) through smart business practices.

Those companies should be rewarded with continued success. The bad ones should be allowed to fail on their own.

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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 7:18:15 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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Jax I agree.   The bail out angers me.   the congress has no business incurring this obsceen debt on our backs.    i got another email from a pa senator explaining how he "had to" vote for the bail out. 

what the bottem line is - is that the day we pay the piper, the piper that we delayed since the 70s...well that day is arriving weather we want it to or not.   the day is months away. or sooner.

the kicker is the typical American is very stupid to have allowed the mess to go this far.   unfortunatley, as a society- we are about to get, exactly what we deserve.  

it will not be pretty.

http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=12596   the 2nd vid says the dollar will drop like a rock.   the 18 mins of vid is quite sobering.     

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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 8:20:45 PM   
TNstepsout


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I work in an industry that is related to housing and I have spoken to many, many homeowners that purchased during the housing boom. If you could talk to just a fraction of the people I do, you would completely understand why we are in the mess we are in. Many of these people are thoroughly unequipped for homeownership. They are uneducated, they aren't particularly bright (I'm being nice here) and they don't have a clue (nor do they want to make the effort to try) to understand the complexities of their mortgage or any other bill they might receive related to their home.  They are like children who saw something shiny and pretty and wanted it. 

I can tell you too that a lot of these same people we're all feeling so sorry for have a right nasty attitude. They act like spoiled brats throwing all kinds of horrible temper tantrums when they have to actually show some responsibility for the shiny new house they get to live in.  The biggest problem is that they didn't have to work or sacrifice or do anything to get into the house, so it means nothing to them.  Of course they don't want to lose the house, who would? But is it really "their home"? How much money did they actually put down on it? How much principle have they paid in 12-18 months?  When it's all averaged out they probably end up paying less than they would have paid in rent for the house they were in, so did they lose out?  It's ridiculous that we're all drying our eyes over people who got something for nothing. The way I look at it, they live in a nice home for a couple of years and in the end they leave with exactly what they came with, NOTHING!



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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 8:31:34 PM   
JumpingJax


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TNStepout - ty for the post.

No one forced these people in to these loans. I do believe the process was made to easy for many people (myself included when I purchased my first house). It's much easier to blame others versus taking responsibility for ones own decisions.



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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 9:02:05 PM   
MstrssScarlet


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/3/2005
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Countrywide had our first two mortgages.  When we were moving from one house (still on the market) to the other, they decided that our debt to income ratio was too high.  Their answer?  Charge a fee!  We're already stretching ourselves and their answer was to make it even harder for us.  There were numerous mistakes made in the closing process, including putting the wrong address on the loan papers.  We were told "Don't worry, we'll fix that later".  We had sense enough to cross out the incorrect numbers, but the incorrect address was never changed.  We finally refinanced to get away from Countrywide and the loan was sold to Provident.  Guess who stepped in to service the loan?  You got it - Countrywide!  A few months ago there was a special assessment because two of the local schools went bankrupt and the government took over.  We were supposed to take a one time "hit" and then the taxes were supposed to go back to slightly higher than they were before.  Countrywide took the amount of the special assessment and used that to figure our escrow (tax and insurance).  They have increased our house payment $200 a month!  I have checked with our insurance company and the county treasurer.  Our payment SHOULD have increased approximately $20 a month.  We have made numerous calls to Countrywide and they refuse to either refigure the escrow amount OR release it to us.  The county treasurer has called them and they still refuse to adjust the amount.  We demanded that they release the escrow and allow us to pay it ourselves, but they keep coming up with excuses.  The latest?  They will release the escrow to us for.....you guessed it - a fee!  A $1,300 fee at that!  Even if we pay it, we have no assurance that they'll keep their word and release the escrow.  It's absolutely maddening and $200 a month adds up pretty quickly.  I can see how some of these people could be forced into giving up and walking away from their homes.
Mistress Scarlet

_____________________________

"Say, that hurts a little bit" "And you don't like to be hurt do ya?" "I don't know...kinda fun sometimes if it's done in the right spirit."
Jean Harlow in The Beast of the City

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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 9:04:22 PM   
MstrssScarlet


Posts: 633
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From: Indianapolis, Indiana
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TNstepsout, I'm sure you're right about the people you deal with and I have no beef with what you said.  There are also people like us out there though.  I have a hard time feeling sorry for the banks that had to be bailed out.
Mistress Scarlet

< Message edited by MstrssScarlet -- 10/30/2008 9:05:51 PM >


_____________________________

"Say, that hurts a little bit" "And you don't like to be hurt do ya?" "I don't know...kinda fun sometimes if it's done in the right spirit."
Jean Harlow in The Beast of the City

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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 9:27:15 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JumpingJax


I am not reading this entire article. It doesn't really matter here if it is the Lenders fault or the borrowers fault. Either way we should not be bailing out these companies. Instead the companies should be forced to close their doors like every other business out there that makes bad decisions and is forced to pay the price for it.

If all the banks went under tommorow someone would step in the next day with a better and more improved banking system. That is the way free market should work. BTW: It's worth noting that there are many banks that are not having problems. Right now the news seems to imply that they are all in trouble, and yes a lot and some very big ones are in trouble. BUT there are plenty of other banks around this country that have protected themselves (and their customers) through smart business practices.

Those companies should be rewarded with continued success. The bad ones should be allowed to fail on their own.
I wish the universe I live in were as simple as yours.

Nasty, this is simply an outstanding post. I'll have to re-read it several times before I feel that I can make an intelligent commnt, but, for the nonce, I'll say that this confirms what I've been saying and directly contradicts the right-wing talking point of  "it's their own damn fault, tough shit." The average person has not the ability to understand a mortgage contract, let alone know when she is being set up.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 9:29:26 PM   
JumpingJax


Posts: 155
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet

TNstepsout, I'm sure you're right about the people you deal with and I have no beef with what you said. There are also people like us out there though. I have a hard time feeling sorry for the banks that had to be bailed out.
Mistress Scarlet



Do you have the means to refinance? Course no gurantee that such a refinance won't be bought back by countrywide. AND YES I know refinance is expensive. Not to mention with 2 homes under you right now makes it nearly impossible to do.

Based on what you just said it definitly doesn't sound to me like this was your own doing. Instead it sounds like unethical business practices from a company that doesn't care about their customers. A company that I don't believe we should be bailing out using everyone's tax dollars. These are exactly the type of companies that we should want to fail.

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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 9:36:41 PM   
MstrssScarlet


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/3/2005
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
Status: offline
Actually, we sold the first house (at a loss because we were in such a hurry) and already refinanced once we got into this house just to get away from Countrywide.  Unfortunaltely, there's no guarantee that if we refinance AGAIN (losing even more money) we won't get Countrywide servicing the loan again.
I've even written the attorney general who has a website in this state, but I've received no reply as of yet.  I was hoping with re-election right around the corner I might get some help, but I guess he's too busy with his campaign to be bothered.
Mistress Scarlet

_____________________________

"Say, that hurts a little bit" "And you don't like to be hurt do ya?" "I don't know...kinda fun sometimes if it's done in the right spirit."
Jean Harlow in The Beast of the City

(in reply to JumpingJax)
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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 9:51:21 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JumpingJax

Instead it sounds like unethical business practices from a company that doesn't care about their customers.



Jax, the personal story Scarlet is telling is rather mild, at least at this point. Reading the information I provided would give you a more accurate understanding of not only the unethical practices but also the illegal ones. Her case is not isolated, it is the norm. Not taking advantage of easy information provided to you keeps you among the willfully ignorant, even if empathetic.

Scarlet, be prepared for Countrywide to with hold your property tax payments and then to pass the late fees on to you. Also be prepared for them to split your payments, applying portions to illegimate fees, thereby creating only a partial payment on your mortgage. These are two very common and frequent tactics they employ to force you into default status on their books. Once that happens they have you over a barrel as a foreclosure could come at any time. Loan servicers, you see, make very little money in the servicing. Any fees they are able to generate or fabricate they are able to keep. If you'd like some resources to learn more about this and perhaps "head em off at the pass" contact me privately and I'll pass along what I have.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to JumpingJax)
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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/30/2008 10:04:36 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I work in an industry that is related to housing and I have spoken to many, many homeowners that purchased during the housing boom. If you could talk to just a fraction of the people I do, you would completely understand why we are in the mess we are in. Many of these people are thoroughly unequipped for homeownership. They are uneducated, they aren't particularly bright (I'm being nice here) and they don't have a clue (nor do they want to make the effort to try) to understand the complexities of their mortgage or any other bill they might receive related to their home.  They are like children who saw something shiny and pretty and wanted it. 

I can tell you too that a lot of these same people we're all feeling so sorry for have a right nasty attitude. They act like spoiled brats throwing all kinds of horrible temper tantrums when they have to actually show some responsibility for the shiny new house they get to live in.  The biggest problem is that they didn't have to work or sacrifice or do anything to get into the house, so it means nothing to them.  Of course they don't want to lose the house, who would? But is it really "their home"? How much money did they actually put down on it? How much principle have they paid in 12-18 months?  When it's all averaged out they probably end up paying less than they would have paid in rent for the house they were in, so did they lose out?  It's ridiculous that we're all drying our eyes over people who got something for nothing. The way I look at it, they live in a nice home for a couple of years and in the end they leave with exactly what they came with, NOTHING!



TN, I don't disagree with you. I've bought, remodelled, and sold some houses as well as being a landlord for a number of years. It's been my observation that there is a strong sense of entitlement in the under-35s. I just cannot stand the notion that those who want the houses are entirely at fault.

I'm what is known as a 'sophisticated investor". I understand fully the potential downside of a risky ARM. I refi'd 5 mortgages at the same time back around 2002 to take advantage of a deal I couldn't pass up. (I calculated the payback time, the real-world rents, repair set-asides, and all that good stuff)

But realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, and underwriters were all going for the fees. I recall the ads for "option payments" where on could pay a "minimum" (negative amort) payment, an ARM payment, a 15 yr fixed, and a 30 yr fixed. The buyer could choose one of those options every single month. They were being sold - HARD.

I had the frikkin' VP of American Freedom Mortgage (Tamara Burch's defunct firm) court me for a  4 mortgage refi. I got her to cut her "Loan origination fee" and some other negotiable stuff in half, and got a package rate from my lawyer for closing. Title insurance fee was cut in half, too, for four of them. I passed, eventually, but these people were hard-core sellers.

The average buyer didn't stand a chance. They would never have seen that "shiny and pretty" if it weren't shoved in their faces at every turn. DiTech, American Freedom, Ameriquest, Quicken, et cetera... christ, every commercial break there was an advert for a mortgage 5 years ago.

But I agree, there was no risk. They stood to loose nothing. Nor did the lenders. They sold the loans. Nor did the loan bundlers. They sold insurance (swaps) on the bundled loans. The big investment banks and the hedge funds took the risks, and those are the smartest guys in the room  fucks who are being bailed out.

So, ultimately, the risk was devolved to people like me who played by the rules and paid my taxes and did everything on the up-and-up.

And I want blood. I want to see those rich cocksuckers on Long Island and in Palm Beach and wherever fucking hurting. I want to see long prison sentences. That'll never happen, though. At least double their fucking taxes.

This is why I no longer feel any moral obligation to pay taxes. The system is so unbelievably tilted towards those shitheads that the little guy doesn't have a chance. Not a chance.

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 10/30/2008 10:06:33 PM >


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to TNstepsout)
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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/31/2008 1:23:45 AM   
TheUtopian


Posts: 259
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I work in an industry that is related to housing and I have spoken to many, many homeowners that purchased during the housing boom. If you could talk to just a fraction of the people I do, you would completely understand why we are in the mess we are in. Many of these people are thoroughly unequipped for homeownership. They are uneducated, they aren't particularly bright (I'm being nice here) and they don't have a clue (nor do they want to make the effort to try) to understand the complexities of their mortgage or any other bill they might receive related to their home.  They are like children who saw something shiny and pretty and wanted it. 

I can tell you too that a lot of these same people we're all feeling so sorry for have a right nasty attitude. They act like spoiled brats throwing all kinds of horrible temper tantrums when they have to actually show some responsibility for the shiny new house they get to live in.  The biggest problem is that they didn't have to work or sacrifice or do anything to get into the house, so it means nothing to them.  Of course they don't want to lose the house, who would? But is it really "their home"? How much money did they actually put down on it? How much principle have they paid in 12-18 months?  When it's all averaged out they probably end up paying less than they would have paid in rent for the house they were in, so did they lose out?  It's ridiculous that we're all drying our eyes over people who got something for nothing. The way I look at it, they live in a nice home for a couple of years and in the end they leave with exactly what they came with, NOTHING!





This video really sizes things up as far as all dreamers in Cali......

http://www.kcet.org/socal/2008/09/foreclosure-alley.html






- R

< Message edited by TheUtopian -- 10/31/2008 1:24:25 AM >


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(in reply to TNstepsout)
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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/31/2008 1:24:41 AM   
meatcleaver


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I have seen several in dpeth news reports and documentaries in several countries  (European) in the last month or so about the US housing market and all have seen the financial services sector in America as the problem because of lack of regulation and corrupt practices and the people being sold the mortgages as being very much the victim of corrupt practices. I can't see why any of the reports or documemtaries would lie and most had credible American sources backing up the conclusion that corrupt practices due to lack of regulation is the main culprit for the situation.

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(in reply to UncleNasty)
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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/31/2008 4:22:20 AM   
Dnomyar


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In my area a lot of people are walking away from their homes. Moving out in the middle of the night. I brought into here a year ago thinking that this was going to be a great place to live. Now it it becomming a ghost town. It is not only that people took out bad loans a lot is also caused by high unemployment. All of the secure jobs people thought they had vanished. It is not only homes it is cars also. I know several people who had to give theirs back also.  They were told that their credit will be ruined. Thats a big joke. They did'nt need good credit to buy their houses and cars in the first place.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/31/2008 4:44:09 AM   
candystripper


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Joined: 11/1/2005
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I had an amazing convo with a mortgage lender recently....he told me they had tightened up the credit availability by (1) raising the lowest acceptable credit score and (2) requiring people to actually prove they made as much as they claimed.  The first seems reasonable, if a bit of an overreaction...but the second floored me.  Good grief, when I got my mortgage in the 1980's, I had to produce more documentation than you could stack in a single banker's box....and I was a government employee.  My salary was public record!
 
Apparently, the banks were in the practice of allowing people to inflate their income stats and looking the other way...and I agree with Uncle Nasty...this does seem like outright fraud on the part of lender inasmuch as the taxing authorities and others rely on the lenders to make reasonable decisions about who can afford to purchase real estate.
 
I've noticed the auto manufacturers and car dealers are offering credit....Toyota is running adds offering 0% financing again...and I wonder if the lenders have just taken their show on the road?
 
candystripper 

< Message edited by candystripper -- 10/31/2008 4:45:40 AM >

(in reply to Dnomyar)
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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/31/2008 4:49:33 AM   
TNstepsout


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quote:

We were supposed to take a one time "hit" and then the taxes were supposed to go back to slightly higher than they were before. Countrywide took the amount of the special assessment and used that to figure our escrow (tax and insurance). They have increased our house payment $200 a month! I have checked with our insurance company and the county treasurer. Our payment SHOULD have increased approximately $20 a month. We have ma
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet

TNstepsout, I'm sure you're right about the people you deal with and I have no beef with what you said.  There are also people like us out there though.  I have a hard time feeling sorry for the banks that had to be bailed out.
Mistress Scarlet


I know there are and that's what pisses me off!  It is the irresponsible people who thought no harder before signing a mortgage than they do when buying a new pair or shoes (oh maybe the shoes at least get tried on?) who are causing greater problems for people like you (and me).  Now that this whole house of cards has collapsed, people like you 1-Can't find refinancing 2-Are being laid off their jobs 3-Will pay more in their property taxes and HOA dues to make up for what is lost to foreclosure 4-Will see their property values decline. And all the while the headlines have us boohooing over the idiots that caused the mess instead of the ones who are the victims.

We don't feel sorry for the people who ran AIG and Lehman (we HATE's them) because their greed got them into the mess they are in. So why are we feeling sorry for the "greedy" people who got into a house they couldn't afford?

(in reply to MstrssScarlet)
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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/31/2008 5:35:32 AM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet
Countrywide took the amount of the special assessment and used that to figure our escrow (tax and insurance).  They have increased our house payment $200 a month!  I have checked with our insurance company and the county treasurer.  Our payment SHOULD have increased approximately $20 a month.  We have made numerous calls to Countrywide and they refuse to either refigure the escrow amount OR release it to us.  The county treasurer has called them and they still refuse to adjust the amount. 


They pulled a different trick on us. The first year, they under-calculated the escrow by about 50%. Of course, the next year, we needed to pay more to 1. cover the shortfall 2. pay the correct amount 3. provide a larger "cushion"- the net effect was to increase our monthly payment by almost 15% for the second year (and no, there was no change in our tax bill or insurance bill). We planned out or housing budget fairly conservatively, so this wasn't a huge crisis, but I could easily see it pushing less-stable homeowners into late payments or worse.


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(in reply to MstrssScarlet)
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RE: Evil deadbeat borrowers and the Foreclosure of Amer... - 10/31/2008 6:31:35 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
TN,  is there any chance that the folks are frustrated by the voice menu of the phone system?   The thing about a house that some do not realize is it needs maintenance.      There is also a sort of protocol for handling the care of a house.

Frankly, anyone that paid over 100k for a house was taking a risk.   collectively to decide a pile of wood is worth more then most could ever repay not counting the interest is a gamble.

People are assholes.   Jenny works the food bank. They actually complain if food is not carried to their car, if it is not enough, or if the other person got an can of something that they did not.

The volunteers are not much better.  Complaining as to why who should even get food.  If it is that terrible change it. 
but Ild go with Jenny to decide that who has done this now for 4 years.

a house is a pile of bricks.   well - a pile of plastic.

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
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