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The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 2:17:48 AM   
colouredin


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The age old joke implies that America is only aware of her own exsistance, that there are no other countries out there. I actually dont believe this to be true, but then jokes about whole countries very rarely are (its a bugger being half welsh ... see what i did there) I would have though that the current climate would have made everyone even more aware of other countries, America especially.

Here channel 4 has been doing an American politics season, that along with newspapers and the net everyone is talking about the election. Something i have said for ages half jokingly is that we should get a vote too because its bloody going to affect us anyways, and some of the opinions I have read scare me. Basically all I want to say is I hope that everyone does realise the impact it will have on other countries, because it will. But generally what does inspire me most is the passion so many Americans have for whomever they support which is pretty ace and certainly not always the case here.

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 2:37:42 AM   
meatcleaver


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I've noticed there is an awful lot about America on British TV at the moment, one would think Britain is the 51st state. Stephen Fry's tour of America, Simon Schama's history oif America, then that journalist, out to find America. Then there is all tghe news and documentaries about America. I think you will find this is a uniquely British phenomena in Europe and I suppose, a lot to do with sharing the same language. The US election hits the news nowandagain here and with the economic crisis starting in America, that also brings America into the news but people aren't that cioncerned about America as Britain are and of course, Britain wants to maintain and strengthen the trans-atlantic relationship while many Europeans see a united Europe as a way of dealing with America on equal terms. I'm not certain that individual Presidents have that much power anyway, it seems from here it is the forces behind the President are what drive US policy. I think Eisenhower said or implied, the forces of the US state are beyond one man's (President's) control.

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 4:08:50 AM   
Dnomyar


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If you wish we can declare Britain a colony of ours.

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 4:13:05 AM   
meatcleaver


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I really don't care about Britain, as I don't live there, you can do what you want with it. I think the British establishment decided it wanted to be an American colony long ago. I'm English and there is no recognized country as England in any international forum so I don't have a country to mourn.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/31/2008 4:14:00 AM >


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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 4:15:30 AM   
NormalOutside


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Passion, yes.  Aware of what's going on, notsomuch.

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 4:51:57 AM   
candystripper


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LOL at 'don't care about Britian'. 
 
Personally I'm quite fond of the Britishers I know...and I do care.  I love reading LadyEllen's posts about what's happening over there....not at all the exact same thing as here...and I cannot comprehend their legal system or their parlimentary form of government.  How does the PM get anything done if he or she is always worried about being voted out by a recalcitrant "congress'?
 
Anyway, it's not like I'd emigrate but yes, I do care. 
 
candystripper 

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 7:02:53 AM   
LadyEllen


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Well thank you CS! I aims to please LOL!

Our system is actually not set up that differently to yours; our Queen is head of state, sitting where your President does though she lacks power to initiate anything and is more of a figurehead, who nevertheless is held to be superior to Parliament in that she is the one in whose name legislation is introduced and enacted. She opens Parliament, with great pomp and circumstance (which can be quite amusing to watch) and reads a list of proposed legislation for the term (known as The Queen's Speech).
After that she goes off to do whatever it is she's been booked for - she's really more of an ultimate celebrity and her job is really about PR.

The Parliament is split into the Lords (akin to your Senate, the upper house) and the Commons (akin to the HOR, the lower house). Membership of the Lords is on appointment by the Queen these days (it used to be heriditary) but she only rubber stamps the recommendations of the Prime Minister as to who should be "elevated". Members of the Lords include a few surviving hereditaries but mostly its worthies from the Commons and public office, plus a few dodgy members whose membership could be explained by cynics as a reward for party donations - and the worst aspect of it - all bishops and archbishops of the Church Of England (same as the Episcopalians) are automatically also members of the Lords. The Lords is the revising house - it revises Bills passed in the Commons and either approves them in the name of the Queen or sends them back to the Commons to be looked at again.

The Commons is the elected house. Members are elected from constituencies comprising what are considered representative populations - so dependent on population density a constituency can be very small or quite large geographically. "First past the post" applies, so that if one candidate gets 10000 votes and another gets 9999 and a third gets 9998, the 10000 votes wins out - I consider this totally ridiculous and support proportional representation to replace it but thats by the by. In general, members in the Commons belong to one of a small numbers of political parties, with (New) Labour and Conservatives being the largest and generally forming governments, and Liberal Democrats in third place nationally, plus a small number of members from parties in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland.

Whichever party gets the most members in the Commons will form the government, with their party leader becoming Prime Minister - although only at the invitation of the Queen to do so (another archaic tradition). This works out OK in general since the winning party will have a large majority in terms of members of the Commons, where its one member per vote - with such a majority the winning party can put through its planned legislation as long as it keeps all its members on side - although that sometimes doesnt work out when party members not in the government (backbenchers) choose to oppose their own party. In general though, all party members want their party to remain in government and get its legislation passed so they will be on side far more often than not. When the governing party needs to, it is not against the rules for it to do deals to get votes from other parties to pass its Bills (viz my recent thread about abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty) and the same sort of cross party dealing will also go on in case of a hung Parliament, where no party has overall control.

The governing party will place its planned legislation before the Commons and the whole Commons will vote on it. Whilst the governing party will take most of the time in terms of introducing legislation, other parties and individual members can also do so. If the Commons votes the Bill down, then it might be looked at again. If the Commons approves the Bill it passes to the Lords for their revision and vote. Parliament also has Select Committees which examine Bills prior to their presentation to the Commons and following their rejection at any stage - these committees are drawn from the members and are often populated by specialists in the relevant field.

As to the security of the Prime Minister - he/she is as secure as his/her party members support. In general, unless a Prime Minister is a totally hopeless disaster, his/her party will provide support - because failing to do so weakens the party and its claim to government. But the Prime Minister is only the Prime Minister because he/she is the leader of the majority party in the Commons - if there is a leadership challenge then the position of Prime Minister is likewise challenged. There can also be a vote of no confidence on the part of the Commons which can bring down the Prime Minister and/or government - this is very serious though and hasnt happened I believe since WWII; it requires enough members of the majority party (the Prime Minister's party) to also vote no confidence for the motion to succeed, and no one risks this unnecessarily since it damages the party and forces a general election which the governing party is more than likely to lose.

The legal system is also like yours. It is founded on common law and statute law and is evolving as precedent is set by case law. Judges are appointed from the ranks of barristers (lawyers who represent in court), and one becomes a barrister from being a solicitor (a lawyer who acts as go between for client and barrister). Senior judges usually end up in the Lords in Parliament, which also acts as the Supreme Court in the UK - though the EU Courts generally have supremacy overall.

E

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 7:17:52 AM   
candystripper


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Holy shit, LadyEllen, LMAO!  I'm gonna have to copy/paste this post of yours into Word for further study...talk about a succient description.
 
(Removes commentary about fugliness among members of the Royal Family, LOL.)
 
That business with barristers and soliciters will confuse me till I expire, I suppose....even though I love British mysteries and have read about the arrangement many times.
 
May I know, are your lawyers permitted to practice all over GB, or are they restricted to certain locales such as the lawyers here are by state?
 
candystripper 

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 7:29:07 AM   
LadyEllen


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Our situation is determined by there being variations in law between constituent parts of the UK, there is one law for England & Wales, but Scots law varies quite distinctly and the law in Northern Ireland is a mystery. And then there will be UK law which applies to everywhere, unless there is an exemption - and EU law which will apply everywhere, unless there is an exemption.

However even with the variations, it should be possible for any qualified person to transfer between systems - subject to getting approval from the relevant governing body in the new country, having demonstrated satisfactory knowledge of the new system.

Mind you its also possible here to represent yourself in court as a plaintiff (complainant) in civil cases - not sure if that applies everywhere?

And the Royals? Yes, theyre fugly for the most part, its quite OK to say it; the Queen and especially her sister Princess Margaret were pretty, one of the Princes is good looking (dont know which is which though) and there is the odd member of the extended family that looks alright - but for the most part......... lets just say its a good thing they have money

E

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 7:35:59 AM   
meatcleaver


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LE. England is not recognized as a region or nation in any national or international forum. Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland are. Seems like the English don't care about being a nation as far as I can see, especially with England's pre-occupation with all things American.

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 7:40:01 AM   
LadyEllen


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There is no such thing as England or English MC - thats what we have been taught for decades, so its only natural that no such legal entity or identity should exist.

But we do care very much about it - its just that those in power dont, and they see any acquisition of such a status by us as the Welsh, Scots and Irish have, as a threat to their power.

When the World Cup rolls round - then you see what the English think of their identity.

E



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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 7:43:56 AM   
xxblushesxx


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There are other countries?!!!

Huh.

Ya learn something new every day...

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 8:11:28 AM   
Termyn8or


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It's gone alot farther than Americans just thinking there are no other countries, they seemed to rename the US America. Now Americans don't know that there are other countries in America.

Last time I checked the US was one of the many countries on a continent known as America, the US is located in North America.

So when they say they (if elected) will keep jobs in America, that means it's OK when our factories move to Mexico or Canada. Keeping their promises as usual.

T

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 8:26:02 AM   
pahunkboy


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To CO,

I  am afraid I have dreadful news for you.

Both candidates are for more empire.   (gag, either you are with us or you are against us GAG) 

Obama is very good at making people feel good.   he inspires, and that is truly a good thing.  the shortcoming comes in that at the end of the day, he is still for more empire, not less.

In regard of positive thinking Obama is good, Palin is good.

But lovely thoughts alone wont solve the problems.  We need a dynamic plan put together by people I see in the grocery store. Not lawyers.

So- there is a fine line between rape and seduction.  That is how I view Obama or McCain.  Rape or seduced.

But ya know- for being a "maverick", McCain is not one. Ron Paul is the maverick.   

Vis-a-vi empire-  more vs less.  the world is nieve that this election will change- if Obama gets in- it wont. They both will contine the status quo.

So  to the world-  BAND OVER.                                    (screams!)

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RE: The other side of the world - 10/31/2008 5:06:49 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I've noticed there is an awful lot about America on British TV at the moment



This US election does seem to have been afforded an inordinate amount of press coverage, but all other aspects of US life remain outside of the sphere of British media interest.

The US election is being widely reported for one simple reason: English politics is on its last legs. Political commentators are crying out for anything that may stimulate some interest in politics at home.


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RE: The other side of the world - 11/1/2008 5:09:06 AM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

The age old joke implies that America is only aware of her own exsistance, that there are no other countries out there. I actually dont believe this to be true, but then jokes about whole countries very rarely are (its a bugger being half welsh ... see what i did there) I would have though that the current climate would have made everyone even more aware of other countries, America especially.

Here channel 4 has been doing an American politics season, that along with newspapers and the net everyone is talking about the election. Something i have said for ages half jokingly is that we should get a vote too because its bloody going to affect us anyways, and some of the opinions I have read scare me. Basically all I want to say is I hope that everyone does realise the impact it will have on other countries, because it will. But generally what does inspire me most is the passion so many Americans have for whomever they support which is pretty ace and certainly not always the case here.


Bore Da/Good Morning do you think Americans know of the existance of Cymru in large numbers then ?

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RE: The other side of the world - 11/1/2008 6:14:25 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

The age old joke implies that America is only aware of her own exsistance, that there are no other countries out there. I actually dont believe this to be true, but then jokes about whole countries very rarely are (its a bugger being half welsh ... see what i did there) I would have though that the current climate would have made everyone even more aware of other countries, America especially.

Here channel 4 has been doing an American politics season, that along with newspapers and the net everyone is talking about the election. Something i have said for ages half jokingly is that we should get a vote too because its bloody going to affect us anyways, and some of the opinions I have read scare me. Basically all I want to say is I hope that everyone does realise the impact it will have on other countries, because it will. But generally what does inspire me most is the passion so many Americans have for whomever they support which is pretty ace and certainly not always the case here.


Thank you so much for the even handed post.  We don't see too much of that from people across the pond.  I would remind those over there who joke about America only aware of her existence.  It's true, and necessary, that every country do things in their national interest...and why I think the failed United Nations should be abandoned.
However, America has been a country with the biggest heart on the planet when it comes to aiding friends around the globe with blood and treasure.  The younger Europeans don't seem to remember the Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe after the devastation of WW2, the strength of U.S. military presence when thousands of Russian tanks and their satellite countries were threatening freedom once again...and today, still giving in blood. 

You are very correct in that the result of the U.S. election will impact coutries around the world.  The possiblilty of a radical change in our government will impact and polarize the States, and quite possibly lead to a more isolationist approach to global politics...or worse, a softer approach to dictators who want nothing better than to destroy our way of life...and yours.  As the old chinese curse goes.."May you live in interesting times"...and we are...


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RE: The other side of the world - 11/1/2008 6:31:22 AM   
MadAxeman


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I think the 'one simple reason' that the U S election is getting so much coverage here is that our country, particularly the economy, feels the effects of American policy. Never mind U S foreign policy, culture through music, tv, ubiquitous food/drink outlets and fillums.

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RE: The other side of the world - 11/1/2008 7:31:17 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman

I think the 'one simple reason' that the U S election is getting so much coverage here is that our country, particularly the economy, feels the effects of American policy. Never mind U S foreign policy, culture through music, tv, ubiquitous food/drink outlets and fillums.


I think the biggest reason for that is the fact Britain has so much American culture and so much time given to it is because of the English language. You don't get the constant flow of Americana in continental Europe. Yes, you get the big musicians  but most people don't know if they are British, Australian or American. You get a lot of American films but that is to do with the pure weight of finance behind American films but you also get a far richer variety of films on the continent than you get in the UK, largely because Brits won't read subtitles. You get a lot of American television programmes but that is because there is so much air time to fill nowadays and because of the enormous TV output in America, American programmes are so cheap. However, from my experience in Europe(OK this is inevitably a generalisation), people watch much less TV, prefering to read or socialize with family and friends more than in Britain. There is also a very rich vein of European films and music that is never seen or heard in the UK because the UK is so chauvanistic about language and that leaves less room for Americana here.

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RE: The other side of the world - 11/1/2008 12:35:30 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: piratecommander


quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

The age old joke implies that America is only aware of her own exsistance, that there are no other countries out there. I actually dont believe this to be true, but then jokes about whole countries very rarely are (its a bugger being half welsh ... see what i did there) I would have though that the current climate would have made everyone even more aware of other countries, America especially.

Here channel 4 has been doing an American politics season, that along with newspapers and the net everyone is talking about the election. Something i have said for ages half jokingly is that we should get a vote too because its bloody going to affect us anyways, and some of the opinions I have read scare me. Basically all I want to say is I hope that everyone does realise the impact it will have on other countries, because it will. But generally what does inspire me most is the passion so many Americans have for whomever they support which is pretty ace and certainly not always the case here.


Bore Da/Good Morning do you think Americans know of the existance of Cymru in large numbers then ?


...a p'nawn dda i Chi hefyd.........we're working on them one at a time......

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