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The politics of change - 10/31/2008 6:47:43 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		It question those who vote in a particular direction, support a party based upon the party name, people who have not the wit to know a party's current policies, but support and vote based upon the fact that they have always voted that way or it's in their family history or location.

The world in which we live changes, and so it is politics change, I vote for what I believe will be beneficial to myself and my ideas at the time, which might not necessarily be what I have believed in the past, as I accept I have changed and I will continue to change. I hold no allegiance to any political party and yes, when I do vote, it is often the lesser of the evils that gets my mark.

But seeing as everything is in continual flux, how can a person be fixed on who they vote for ?

Who here still votes the way they have always done and why ?


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RE: The politics of change - 10/31/2008 7:32:49 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

It question those who vote in a particular direction, support a party based upon the party name, people who have not the wit to know a party's current policies, but support and vote based upon the fact that they have always voted that way or it's in their family history or location.

The world in which we live changes, and so it is politics change, I vote for what I believe will be beneficial to myself and my ideas at the time, which might not necessarily be what I have believed in the past, as I accept I have changed and I will continue to change. I hold no allegiance to any political party and yes, when I do vote, it is often the lesser of the evils that gets my mark.

But seeing as everything is in continual flux, how can a person be fixed on who they vote for ?

Who here still votes the way they have always done and why ?



I don't vote. I stoped voting sometime ago when I realized all the main parties are all part of the same establishment and that they would change nothing. I also realised change wouldn't be allowed to happen, not even democratically, when I realised how the secret service interfers in domestic politics and runs a dirty war against any movement it sees as a danger to the establishment.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: The politics of change - 10/31/2008 8:06:47 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, I vote the way I always have by paying attention the to party platform (in large part) and the candidate for national elections and on the candidate for local elections. I also look at the history of a candidate and a party because honestly while "change" is a nice phrase it doesn't mean much when the other powers in government get a hold of you. Serious change seems to happen in democracies when large numbers of citizens start demanding it and voting in new political servants (not leaders, but servants).

Most of the people I will vote for on Tuesday will be Democrats because i can get behind that party platform far better than the Republican though the Reps did change some wording this time around that could make it seem more moderate. However "most" isn't all. There is one town office I'm voting for the Republican in because the current official hasn't done her job well and shows a history of personal problems in a related area. In another case I'm voting Green because that candidate is the one I think can protect our county land better than the other two.

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RE: The politics of change - 10/31/2008 4:55:00 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But seeing as everything is in continual flux, how can a person be fixed on who they vote for ?



Well, I will not vote for a conservative candidate.....including where they have the sporn of Snow White and Jim'll Fix It running for government office. I have my reasons.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: The politics of change - 10/31/2008 5:23:07 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		We have a choice of two parties in the USA. and generally the candidates running for office on the national ticket are either left of center if democrat and right of center if republican.  There is not that kind of distinction on the local level where you often have several political parties on the ballot, and southern democrats, for example, are generally more right of center than northern republicans.  I've voted for the republican on the national ticket but have split my vote (NYC Mayor Ed Koch) on a local level.

Change is not Politics..."Change is a slogan to rally voters with no plan".  It's a fantasy, a lottery ticket for those in our society who don't feel as if they are part of our society.  I could vote for a liberal like Hillary Clinton who was really impressive when she found her voice in the last month of the primary...I could never vote for a radical leftist.  His vision of America is not my America.

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RE: The politics of change - 10/31/2008 11:28:30 PM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		Change in politics is a slow grinding process, it comes from a building consensus as ideas and arguments clash and get redefined. When you cut through the half truths, the misdirections and psudo labels there is a couple of stark contrast that pop out. This year the democratic canidate embraced the supply side economic model with targeted tax cuts as part of his platform. This year the Republican canidate is on record for accepting the need for progressive taxing system and government regulation of key finacial institutions. And both canidates embracing a mutli source model of Energy Independance that is identicle save for cosmetic emphsis. Both Canidates are very close to each other in politics and both are really close to the center in action and deed if not in rethoric.

Respectfully
BlackPhx

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RE: The politics of change - 11/1/2008 12:24:01 AM   
vegeta


Posts: 93
Joined: 8/14/2004
Status: offline 		It's hard for average people to tell what he means when Barry keeps flip flopping but a political junkie like me know what he is all about.

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RE: The politics of change - 11/1/2008 5:33:02 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		McCain has "lived" his platform for most of his life...Obama has moved to the center politically because it is the only way for him to win. It's also the "emphasis" of his words...both candidates use the same words for an energy policy, but Obama's focus is on wind and solar and tides, while McCain is on Drill now...nuclear, coal, as well as alternative sources.  The question is who has the better plan.
His life experience is the only thing we have to judge Barack since he does not have a track record in politics.  How else can we judge this man other than his friendships and associations.  Does anyone think he would have beaten Hillary in the early primaries if he had been vetted by the press just  a tenth of the way Palin, for example, has been sliced and diced so viciously. 

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RE: The politics of change - 11/1/2008 6:55:57 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I'm voting entirely on change.  Obama represents the anti-Bush to me.  He's run an ethical campaign, as opposed to Bush's famous smears on McCain.  He was born into poverty and worked hard to get where he is now, unlike Bush who spent his first forty years in an alcoholic.drugged stupor and never would have ended up anywhere without his father's connections.  And I am confident that Obama will provide the cleanest break possible with the Bush era.

That said, I am disgusted with the bailout and the Democratic rolling over on it, and with the exception of the Presidential race, voted third party whenever I could.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: The politics of change - 11/1/2008 8:52:52 AM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		As you can tell I am a political junkie, I was raised by a political science major and a lawyer and our dinner table discussion were interesting to say the least.

But, this political junkie has watched both canidates flip flop on issues and base political stance. McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts, but is now all for them, he has publicly recanted the socialism accusations on TV with Larry King live, when crafting the 2005 & 2006 Energy bills he sided with alternative energy and objected to domestic drilling. He has good reasons to change, as we learn and adapt and find better solutions it would be stupid to dig in on a position. Both, canidates have demonstrated adaptable positions that create better solutions, that is probably why both started on the alternative energy kick and both have adopted the idea of drilling, to McCains credit he was more quick to adopt it but , I suspect it was pressure from oil company contributers that sparked it. I will only condemn a canidate if they flip flop on issues when they do not work to create a better solution. So to thier credit neither canidate has done so, which is something we should expect of potential leaders.

Respectively
BlackPhx

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RE: The politics of change - 11/1/2008 8:06:43 PM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		Actually, depending on which part of his political career McCain's platform has changed radically. During the Regan years he was a strong conservative much in the mold of Ronald Regan and was one of the first reformest Republicans in the Congress. When Clinton won office he convienantly moved more to the center and picked up democrat friends and espoused central left ideas including pro choice and became long time friends with (then) democratic Senator Liberman a person he still has long time associations. Even during the Bush Jr years he adopted global climate change, and alternative energy policy, and in 2000 explained to a little girl as to why we have a progressive tax in our society and why it was important to redistribute wealth. Now we have come full circle, Marverick moderate McCain knows he and Obama are only a heartbeat apart in policy and Obama is far more eloquent in displaying the moderate policies then he. The only way he could differentiate himself was to move farther right to mobilize the Republican base. Lets face it both canidates are politicians, and both change and adapt to the political winds of the times. They keep core beliefs but adopt less then objectionable aspects of the opposite party when the political fashion shifts from red to blue or from blue to red.

Now I listen to Rush Limbagh, I watch Fox News, I read Newsmax. I also read the New York Times, Watch NBC, and listen to a nice leftist radio from time to time. Frankly, there is no lack of vetting for either canidate and I regularly get blasted by the associations, and friendships on both sides. Frankly, if we put up association and judge people unfit because we do not like the politics and ideas of the people they hang around then neither is fit. Politics, means working with people who have different idea to craft legislation and get effective programs and good legislation passed this is why both Obama and McCain sat on boards with Ayers and both donated money to Khalid Al Mansour a former PLO spokesman organization to foster Democratic elections in Palastine. As radical as Ayres is on the left there are Pro-Life organizations on the right just as radical (Pro-Life Rescue Leauge or Operation Rescue) and just as much a terrorist advocating harm to both person and property and just as politically active in the Republican party and the McCain campaign. As outragously as Reverand Jerahmia Wright is on a left agenda there are Evangelicals that advocate outrageously right agenda like Reverand Johnson Jr and are also politically active in the McCain campaign. This is America darn it we all have political positions and opinions on how society should operate and some of us are quite rabid, but we all have the right to those opinions and to express them and get involved in the political system, it is a right granted by the Constitution of the United States. Wackos exist in both parties, an Obama supporter shot people wrecking signs in his yard locally in florida, a young girl carved a B into her face to sway negative feelings against Obama. McCain is a good friend of a liberal senator Liberman a former Democratic VP canidate. Keating was McCain's good friend so much so he made a bad decision to intercede on his behalf before the Investigative arm of congress. Friends with a leftest liberal, corrupt criminal, sat on a board with Ayers, gave almost a half million to a PLO spokesman, taking money from terrorist Pro Life Organizations filtered through the RNC, campaign manger was a paid consultant of Fannie and Freddie Mac up into last month, and backed by 33 activist right agenda preachers, these are the friends and associations of John McCain. In comparison, John McCain never "lived" his platform no matter how much Obama wants to equate McCain to Bush. Neither canidates friends and associates reflect well it you take any credence that it is any measure of thier character.

As such, I disregard such rhetoric for what it is. A mindless pointless campaign tactic designed to obfuscate the issues and demonize the opposition in order sway voters on emotion and away from reason.  

Respectively
BlackPhx

(in reply to corysub)
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RE: The politics of change - 11/1/2008 9:04:21 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline 		CBS/NY Times latest polling data give US Congrss approval rating 15% with 75% totally dissaproving. Democrats have led congress for two years with very poor results. How can anybody vote Democrat? Where the change comes from? Bob Barr for president.

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RE: The politics of change - 11/1/2008 9:06:48 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Who here still votes the way they have always done and why ?

I have always voted for the man I believe will do either the most good or the least damage.


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RE: The politics of change - 11/1/2008 9:49:39 PM   
Thunderbird56


Posts: 87
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		If by "always" you mean the last 20-25 years, then, yes, I do.  Libertarian whenever I can, anti-incumbent whenever possible. Why do I do that? Isn't obvious? Isn't it time? How much worse do things need to get before we wake up?
The *only* 2 political "roads" we have taken for the last 50-60-70 years have gotten us where we are today. How can anyone think that by taking *either* of those roads again it will get us to a different destination? Albert Einstein said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". So don't get suckered into voting for the "lessor of two evils" ... you're still gonna get evil!
Once elected, congressmen have a *better* than 98% probability of getting re-elected! Throw these bums out! No matter what you think of the recent "bailout" bill, calls, email and faxes to congressmen came in at a reported rate of anywhere from 300-1 to 1000-1 AGAINST it. They voted FOR it anyway! These people are supposed to represent us! Oh, I forgot, they know better how to fix the problems they caused than we do ... especially when they are spending our money!



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RE: The politics of change - 11/2/2008 4:42:19 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thunderbird56

If by "always" you mean the last 20-25 years, then, yes, I do.  Libertarian whenever I can, anti-incumbent whenever possible. Why do I do that? Isn't obvious? Isn't it time? How much worse do things need to get before we wake up?
The *only* 2 political "roads" we have taken for the last 50-60-70 years have gotten us where we are today. How can anyone think that by taking *either* of those roads again it will get us to a different destination? Albert Einstein said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". So don't get suckered into voting for the "lessor of two evils" ... you're still gonna get evil!
Once elected, congressmen have a *better* than 98% probability of getting re-elected! Throw these bums out! No matter what you think of the recent "bailout" bill, calls, email and faxes to congressmen came in at a reported rate of anywhere from 300-1 to 1000-1 AGAINST it. They voted FOR it anyway! These people are supposed to represent us! Oh, I forgot, they know better how to fix the problems they caused than we do ... especially when they are spending our money!





The public has no clue tho. The mall here was packed yesderday.

3 rd party is the way.    I wont reward treason.    Beyond treason.  This is the big one.  That isnt being negative.  fractional banking is crashing. 

Hillary is right, the sky will not open for Obama.  Its great that people are upbeat- but he is MORE EMPIRE.   Mccain is MORE EMPIRE.  it isnt lesser of 2 evils- it is too evils that now have a noose around your neck.

never help someone to take eveything you own.   die first.    freacking grandchildren pay it? GET REAL!  it aint gonna happen.

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RE: The politics of change - 11/2/2008 7:35:52 AM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

CBS/NY Times latest polling data give US Congrss approval rating 15% with 75% totally dissaproving. Democrats have led congress for two years with very poor results. How can anybody vote Democrat? Where the change comes from? Bob Barr for president.

Were the numbers any better during the 6 years of the Republican-led Congress?

What's often left out of these statistics is when you ask how "their" senator/representative is doing, they get high marks.  So folks think the institution's doing a bad job, but not their guy.

thornhappy

(in reply to awmslave)
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