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Not indecisive - 11/2/2008 6:17:26 AM

fearghus

Posts: 135
Joined: 9/10/2008
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Maybe it goes back to the notion that some folks use the term "switch" as a catch all.

Maybe some folks just get hung up that a label is supposed to have a black-and-white definition for which there can be no deviation (kinda strange for what some may call a 'deviant' life-style).

But of most of them, I regret the assumption that switches are somehow indecisive about what they want and must choose one or the other - and that some would use that to attempt to deligitamize a person's 'switchiness'

Post #: 1

RE: Not indecisive - 11/3/2008 7:33:35 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline

I have actually been told by people that I should leave the lifestyle until I can pick a side; that maybe I just don't belong.

My Master is very proud to have Dommed a Domme. He sometimes gives me the task of having a session with a sub. The skills have come in handy since I am his Alpha and am to take new subs under my wing. I can easily explain to them the position of the Dom/me, the hard work they put into their job as the top, and the type of response they are looking for.

I had to explain the idea of a switch to a novice Dom this weekend. He saw the choice between being a top and bottom as clear cut, likening it to being a little bit pregnant - either you are or you aren't. I told him instead to liken it to someone being bisexual and he immediately grasped the point. He said, "so you can swing either way and have your choice of partners". I agreed, and said that while some might have a stronger preference towards one gender than another that they could find satisfaction with either. My personal preference at this point in my life is toward the slave side, but as I carry out my task to train a Dom I often have to act as a Domme. After all, I am in the teaching mode.

_____________________________

(in reply to fearghus)

Post #: 2

RE: Not indecisive - 11/3/2008 3:36:43 PM

Lilith13

Posts: 20
Joined: 11/2/2008
From: Takoma Park, Maryland
Status: offline

Heh--people outside the lifestyle are always relieved to hear me identify myself as a switch--they apparently assume it means "neither" or "can turn the whole scary BDSM thing off and have sex with me like a normal person."

Additional thought: People in the lifestyle don't seem to have a problem with my identity as a switch. If they are clear on their own role, then they easily picture me in the one that fits. If they identify as a switch too, then all kinds of fun jockeying begins.

< Message edited by Lilith13 -- 11/3/2008 3:41:33 PM >

_____________________________

Feels so good, it must be wrong.

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Post #: 3

RE: Not indecisive - 11/4/2008 7:48:24 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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I came into all of this as a dominant. I am dominant that will submit under hard core power exchange and guess what? I love it. My partner is also a dominant but likes a good fight and recently we had a scenario at a party where four women managed to pin him down and use him and guess what? he loved it.

I guess that makes us both switches but I'll tell you now that its not light weight, its not flaky because switch or not we play right on the edge, life over death PE and we constantly are thinking up ways to put the fear of god in each other!

I hear the dominant male brigade shouting from the rooftops 'well he can't be a TWUE DOMINANT' and Ill telem for nothing that he's the only man that could dominate me.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 11/4/2008 7:50:21 AM >

(in reply to Lilith13)

Post #: 4

RE: Not indecisive - 11/4/2008 1:13:26 PM

pdv99

Posts: 140
Joined: 3/13/2007
From: UK
Status: offline

Some people want the world to be a simple place, and like to make it look that way by putting people in boxes with labels.
Real people are usually much more than can be described with a one word label.
I'm certainly not a simple person, in any sense of the word, but if these "simpletons" as I call them can't cope with that it's their problem. Sometimes I may have the patience to educate them about the complexities of human nature - if I think THEY are worth it. Or maybe not.
"Sub"? to whom? when? in what circumstances?
"Dom"? over....ditto......
Some folk expect anyone who enjoys submission to be a doormat to be used by anyone who calls themselves "Master" - but in real life most subs aren't that....many folk who are dominant in the rest of their lives enjoy submission sexually - so in that sense they switch......
These days we are used to the idea that many men have a "feminine side" - and often encourage them to get in touch with it. Similarly we'll see many women enjoying more "macho" behaviours. Real people have multifacetted characters, and react in different ways to different people on different days.
I suspect the bottom line is that the people who make most fuss about switches are people who maybe lack control in their daily lives, and like to label themselves Dom/me in order to have an arena in which they feel powerful. With an insecurity underlying their dominance, they fear that a switch may try to take that control from them - or if they are sub because they dislike responsibility for their sexuality, they fear a switch may thrust the responsibility back on to them.

Pete

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 5

RE: Not indecisive - 11/6/2008 5:17:34 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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I agree with everything you say PDV99

I have to say that I was one of those people that just 'didn't get it' for a long time. I used to watch with amusement in the clubs as partners swapped places for a flogging and think to myself, 'how can she be taking him seriously when he's just been taking a flogging from her five minutes ago?'. I have to say that I still don't quite get that but it matters not because actually its not my business and so long as they 'get it' and its right for them, then all is good.

I recently had a conversation with a Master friend of mine. I was amazed at just how intolerant and judgemental he was of anything he considered 'none slave/none Master'. It was like talking to the fountain of knowledge because he was so fixated on how it should be but all I could do was pity the poor guy.

I don't think switch could possibly work for me if it was not with a man who was leaning much more towards his dominant side and in turn I don't think he could be with me if it were not myself leaning much more towards my dominant side. We both continually think up ways to overpower one another but we never pick a time, we just choose the right moment.

(in reply to pdv99)

Post #: 6

RE: Not indecisive - 11/7/2008 9:41:48 AM

Hathalud

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I recently had a conversation with a Master friend of mine. I was amazed at just how intolerant and judgemental he was of anything he considered 'none slave/none Master'. It was like talking to the fountain of knowledge because he was so fixated on how it should be but all I could do was pity the poor guy.

*sighs sadly* There's a certain range age where everything is seen in black and white because that's all that they know.... Children.... Children lack the experience and understanding of more than a limited conception of choice A or choice B. Once we move into our teen years, we generally begin to see things as having 256 shades of gray. Sadly some people never see that in all aspects of their lives and childishly cling to a strict adherence of black or white... dominant or submissive....

*chuckles* I wonder if they only have two emotions.... and if they do... what two are the only valid emotions for them?

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 7

RE: Not indecisive - 11/7/2008 11:21:39 AM

MistresseLotus

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

The difference, for me is that switches, are just playing around with D/s.. where the other side IS D or s.

What I don't understand is why the other side's preferenece bothers you so much. E'spain it to me Lucys.

Rejection happens. You can not please everybody. For being so open and deverse in your tastes.. I must say this forum always seems to be more of a lamenting of your desires than your own acceptance.

(Oh, and I "get it". In my reality.. I prefer to OWN someone, not just be content to play a role when the mood strikes.)

< Message edited by MistresseLotus -- 11/7/2008 11:29:05 AM >

(in reply to fearghus)

Post #: 8

RE: Not indecisive - 11/7/2008 11:55:58 AM

Hathalud

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

The difference, for me is that switches, are just playing around with D/s.. where the other side IS D or s.

Personally would agree with you based on how I feel about being dominant, but my sweet little subbies surely would tell you that I am not playing around and that they truly feel owned by me. *shrugs* It's all a matter of perception anyway, I suppose.

quote:

What I don't understand is why the other side's preferenece bothers you so much. E'spain it to me Lucys.
Rejection happens. You can not please everybody. For being so open and deverse in your tastes.. I must say this forum always seems to be more of a lamenting of your desires than your own acceptance.

(Oh, and I "get it". In my reality.. I prefer to OWN someone, not just be content to play a role when the mood strikes.)

It's sadly human nature to lament and complain about things.... also I suspect that it's because we all want to be accepted for who and what we are.

Though I'll respectfully make mention that your reality is defined by your perception and you may perceive more lamenting in this area than others simply because you pay more attention to those... or maybe there really is more mournful posts in this area than not (While I suspect not since I've read more that aren't as of yet)...

But pay me no heed, I'm just boosting my post count to stop being "vanilla" :P

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 9

RE: Not indecisive - 11/7/2008 9:01:35 PM

AliyaLuna

Posts: 5
Joined: 10/16/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fearghus

Maybe it goes back to the notion that some folks use the term "switch" as a catch all.

Maybe some folks just get hung up that a label is supposed to have a black-and-white definition for which there can be no deviation (kinda strange for what some may call a 'deviant' life-style).

But of most of them, I regret the assumption that switches are somehow indecisive about what they want and must choose one or the other - and that some would use that to attempt to deligitamize a person's 'switchiness'

Yeah one guy once asked me if I was Dom to men but sub to women since I'm bi too. I was surprised that at that though I now know that some are only able to be one way with one sex. For me though it's always been pretty much either way with either sex. Just whatever is my mindset and where my partner is at too.

Still there are so many assumptions out there about what a switch person is. In my estimation this is as limiting as saying that all bisexuals are swingers.

(in reply to fearghus)

Post #: 10

RE: Not indecisive - 11/25/2008 10:55:21 PM

wolfhurst

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline

Just as I enjoy different positions in vanilla sex, and different roles and attitudes in non-sexual social interactions, I enjoy both ends of the dominance vector in BDSM. I have to say that I really don't see what all the fuss is about -- it doesn't have to always be one way or the other, unless you're trying for a 24/7 relationship or something of that sort.

(in reply to AliyaLuna)

Post #: 11

RE: Not indecisive - 11/26/2008 5:56:50 PM

youQadesh

Posts: 84
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

The difference, for me is that switches, are just playing around with D/s.. where the other side IS D or s.

I have to disagree with the idea that switches are always just playing (not that there is anything wrong with playing). The same way that I don't think a Bisexual person is just playing around. A bisexual person can have truly meaningful and loving relationships with either sex. Likewise a switch can have a completely Dominant position in a relationship with one person, and a completely submissive role in a relationship with another person. Their identification with either a submissive role or a dominant role at any given time is just as legitimate as a person who only identifies sub or Dom. I think this is even true in some relationships where the role switch between partners.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 12

RE: Not indecisive - 11/26/2008 8:08:59 PM

khalya

Posts: 50
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline

When I was trained, my mentor told me that unless I experienced something, I would have no idea how that feels for someone else. When I purchase a toy, I test it out myself. If I am learning a new technique, I would like to have that technique done on me first, so that I understand what I am doing to someone else.

I am a proud switch, and I sincerely feel that subbing helps me be a better domme. I take the lifestyle very seriously, and understanding what goes on, on both sides of the fence, is integral to my bdsm experience.

(in reply to youQadesh)

Post #: 13

RE: Not indecisive - 11/26/2008 10:38:47 PM

NessunDorma

Posts: 25
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline

I certainly think it can't be right to say that switches are just playing D/s while those who aren't switches simply -are- D or s.

I've know plenty of subs who were just playing and plenty of Doms who were just getting their rocks off to something new. Now, first, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But more to the point, I think it shows you can't say if you claim to be a Dom or a sub that magically makes you authentic--instead of a 'fake' switch.

I also don't think the point of the original post was complaining about other people's preferences--quite the opposite I think it was objecting to people complaining or denigrating a switches preferences.

I'm even pretty skeptical that you can, as a sub or a Dom, truly understand how to Dom or serve until you've experienced the other side. This is not to say you don't know what you're doing if you haven't switched once or twice--but there is something you're missing out on.

If you're not into it, okay. But I wouldn't assume that proves anything other than your preferences.

< Message edited by NessunDorma -- 11/26/2008 10:42:56 PM >

(in reply to khalya)

Post #: 14

RE: Not indecisive - 11/26/2008 11:07:05 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NessunDorma

I certainly think it can't be right to say that switches are just playing D/s while those who aren't switches simply -are- D or s.

I've know plenty of subs who were just playing and plenty of Doms who were just getting their rocks off to something new. Now, first, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But more to the point, I think it shows you can't say if you claim to be a Dom or a sub that magically makes you authentic--instead of a 'fake' switch.

I also don't think the point of the original post was complaining about other people's preferences--quite the opposite I think it was objecting to people complaining or denigrating a switches preferences.

I'm even pretty skeptical that you can, as a sub or a Dom, truly understand how to Dom or serve until you've experienced the other side. This is not to say you don't know what you're doing if you haven't switched once or twice--but there is something you're missing out on.

If you're not into it, okay. But I wouldn't assume that proves anything other than your preferences.

There are plenty of Dominants that do quite well without feeling so much as a spanking.

I've never understood the argument that If you kneel like a submissive you'll gain special knowledge that will help you become better. Like it's some holy grail of info that's unattainable unless you suffer or live life like them. Like the sting of the whip will bring an epiphany and the heavens will open up.You don't have to put yourself in the physical shoes of another to walk with them. Pay attention, listen to what they say, listen to what the body says and get inside their heads. If you know how the mind works, you can do it from "afar"

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to NessunDorma)

Post #: 15

RE: Not indecisive - 11/27/2008 12:08:40 AM

NessunDorma

Posts: 25
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline

Icarys--I'm not convinced we disagree. There's no epiphany that automatically comes to a Dom from subbing--there is an experience that they would not otherwise have, and one which they cannot experience without, well, experiencing. There are plenty of dominants that do quite well without a spanking, and plenty of subs that do quite well without hitting a soul. I would never tell someone for whom subbing is simply against who they are (really, I doubt I would tell anyone) that they cannot be a 'real' Dom or Domme without trying it.

You can understand without experiencing--but you should not confuse the two. It's the different between reading an engineering textbook (bad example--I'm a nerd, but school was never that fun) and building an engine.

Given the way you juxtapose the Dom's experience with the sub's though, I'm curious what you'd have to say about the first post in the thread. Perhaps we do disagree.

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 16

RE: Not indecisive - 11/27/2008 12:31:17 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NessunDorma

Icarys--I'm not convinced we disagree. There's no epiphany that automatically comes to a Dom from subbing--there is an experience that they would not otherwise have, and one which they cannot experience without, well, experiencing. There are plenty of dominants that do quite well without a spanking, and plenty of subs that do quite well without hitting a soul. I would never tell someone for whom subbing is simply against who they are (really, I doubt I would tell anyone) that they cannot be a 'real' Dom or Domme without trying it.

You can understand without experiencing--but you should not confuse the two. It's the different between reading an engineering textbook (bad example--I'm a nerd, but school was never that fun) and building an engine.

Given the way you juxtapose the Dom's experience with the sub's though, I'm curious what you'd have to say about the first post in the thread. Perhaps we do disagree.

Somewhere along the line you've picked up the idea that this experience is going to give you something unique. It's only a physical experience..There is no epiphany period.
All you have to do is place yourself in the situation mentally. And like I said before..if you pay attention you can feel what they feel.

I don't ever confuse the two, but because I can understand, i have no need to experience when it comes to this.

In some instances, doing something trumps reading about it. Not in this case.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to NessunDorma)

Post #: 17

RE: Not indecisive - 11/30/2008 2:04:03 PM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

desires than your own acceptance.

(Oh, and I "get it". In my reality.. I prefer to OWN someone, not just be content to play a role when the mood strikes.)

Ah but you only own them while they want to be owned... once they don't need you they are gone... thats the reality Im afraid!

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 18

RE: Not indecisive - 11/30/2008 2:09:02 PM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

The difference, for me is that switches, are just playing around with D/s.. where the other side IS D or s.

When Steve and me inserted needles into each others chests on Saturday night before putting ourselves into double body suspension, we didn't feel it was play. Later when we licked each others bleeding wounds lovingly it was something very deep, meaningful and bonding. It was complete togetherness.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 19

RE: Not indecisive - 12/1/2008 5:08:12 PM

NessunDorma

Posts: 25
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

It's only a physical experience..There is no epiphany period.

Perhaps--but I am pretty attached to my physical experiences.

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 20

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