Slave or Submissive? (Full Version)

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GernBlanston -> Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 5:32:53 PM)

I am presented with a dilemma.  Am I a potential slave or a sub?

What I seek is essentially total power exchange except that it would be nice to have a bit of decision making authority in certain day to day necessities.  That authority, I feel, should be under routine review of the Domme and subject to interrogation and possible revocation/modification by Her at any time.  Also, I have a full-time job and would like to keep it, only being a sub/slave when not at work.

So which box should I check:  sub or slave?




SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 5:39:51 PM)

Welcome to the forums.  You may wish to spend several minutes using the Search feature provided.  The sub vs slave issue has been argued to death so I suspect you'll encounter some resistance to rehashing it for the nth time. 
 
In a nutshell, for every individual, the definitions of these terms will be different.  What is a slave to one person is a bratty sub to another.  There is also the matter of the partners in question.  An individual who is not a slave for one person, may feel motivated to be a slave for someone else.
 
The bottom line is:
 
Pick whichever one you feel best represents you and the type of relationship you desire. 



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 5:43:21 PM)

What do you think you are?
What qualifies as a slave for me would be a submissive to others. Fox was a submissive until we paired up and he changed to slave after we were together. You are not restricted to the single definition either, you can always change that later if you so choose



GernBlanston -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 5:44:39 PM)

Sorry then for the rehash.  I browsed the topics and saw nothing close to my question.  I have deliberated myself and also came to the conclusion that it is whichever I choose at this uncollared phase.  Nevertheless, some Dommes seem to prefer me under one label and others under the other.

If this topic has been debated so vigorously, perhaps it is a point of contention and deserves ongoing discussion.  How about merging the two concepts so there is only one box to check (slave/sub)?




DiurnalVampire -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 5:47:34 PM)

It hasnt been argued, it has been beaten like a dead horse.
Slaves and submissives see themselves differently, in some cases.
It is separate to make everyone happy.
Its just a title, the title doesnt make the man, the man makes himself.
If people prefer you under one title or another, then I would wonder why they care about the title if they are fond of you regardless of what you are called.
If I call my oven an oven, a stove, a range or a cooktop, it still does the same job of heating my food.

DV



hopelesslyInvo -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 5:49:52 PM)

to me it's dumb for the site to separate them, it's like having people choose between domme or mistress.  people can only choose to view either subs or slaves, not both, so the dominants that are looking are missing half of the potentials no matter which they choose, which of course makes no sense considering they're about as different as coke and pepsi when you get right down to it.

search and profile features should work by dominant / submissive / switch / any, or have checkboxes to choose all that apply, where people could then check subs and slaves or just one if they did prefer.  but honestly, if a slave isn't submissive, what are they?  dominant slaves?  can you be a slave without an owner?  can't a submissive become a slave?  can't someone be listed as submissive and just state in the bloody profile 'looking to be a slave' and get the same point across?

anyway yeah, it really makes no sense to segregate the s-types but they do, so just put whichever one has a better feel to you and seems more along the lines of what you're looking for, and what you think the people you're looking for will be looking for, and look forward to having to explain yourself every time anyway.



SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 5:52:04 PM)

*Syl does her best LuckyAlbatross impression*
 
Here are a few links to get you started.

 
http://www.collarchat.com/m_515303/mpage_1/key_slave/tm.htm#515333

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308296/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#309867 

http://www.collarchat.com/m_342405/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#342794

http://www.collarchat.com/m_410567/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#410982

http://www.collarchat.com/m_497775/mpage_1/key_submissive%252Cslave/tm.htm#497977

http://www.collarchat.com/m_366860/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#366893

http://www.collarchat.com/m_365776/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#366767

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281198/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#281512

http://www.collarchat.com/m_251014/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#251062




GernBlanston -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 5:54:23 PM)

Maybe my question needs to be slightly fine tuned...  my concern is that my identifying myself one way or the other that a potential Domme may pass me by or not find me in a search.  Since my concept of submission is so close to that of slavery, perhaps there should be just one check box.  Would that be wrong?





GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 5:58:26 PM)

Well, I seek slaves.  So if you can make you can make your way through My profile, you'll have a pretty good idea of My definition.
Working full time is an asset, btw, for most. 



AAkasha -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 6:02:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GernBlanston

Maybe my question needs to be slightly fine tuned...  my concern is that my identifying myself one way or the other that a potential Domme may pass me by or not find me in a search.  Since my concept of submission is so close to that of slavery, perhaps there should be just one check box.  Would that be wrong?





You could do an experiment and have your profile list you as a sub for a week, and for example, maybe you will get 25 emails from femdoms. Then switch it to slave, and you will get 30 emails from femdoms. 

But realistically, you will get 0 either way. You will be the one contacting them - so you can define yourself how you like and spend a great deal of time in the introduction email to explain your reasoning for submissive or slave.

Akasha



hopelesslyInvo -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 6:03:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GernBlanston

Maybe my question needs to be slightly fine tuned...  my concern is that my identifying myself one way or the other that a potential Domme may pass me by or not find me in a search.  Since my concept of submission is so close to that of slavery, perhaps there should be just one check box.  Would that be wrong?



that's exactly what i'm saying the problem is, but that's how the site works, not much hope of it changing, so you've got to pick one.  however i'm unaware which generates more hits from viewers, let alone the 'right viewers', if it's even a significant difference.

when it came down to me deciding what to list myself as, i just broke it down to the basics. 

am i submissive?
checkmark
am i a slave?
well, i don't have an 'owner' so no checkmark

will i always be, and need my other to acknowledge/understand/appreciate i'm always going to be submissive?
check
do i have to be what one or both of us considers to be a slave to be happy in my relationship?
i could just be called a partner, a significant other, a pet, a boyfriend, a mate, or the little bitch that hangs out in hallways for all i really care.
so no check.

and that's the rocket science formula i used when i had to choose. 

people have tons of different meanings they associate to the words, but beyond all else i like to be seen as willfully choosing to do something because they want it, and i want them to have it, rather than simply being obliged to follow through or that it's "my place" and i deserve to be put in it.  and so the notion of being submissive appeals to me more than that of a slave due to MY mindest, and that's really all there is to it when it comes to picking one.  find your definition, explain it, and go with it; very rarely will two people's definitions match, but what two people are looking for will.

in my view, being submissive is something you simply are or are not, it's in your nature, not your stature.  being a slave however is something you can become or do not, and until/unless i become one, or decide that my relationship is more dependent on the title of my role rather than the relationship with my partner itself, i'll stick with the one that seems more flexible in meaning and sensible to me.



XaviersXian -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 6:04:23 PM)

greetings to all,

OP, I am primarily a slave (both in my Master's, and my own, definition).  He allows me a say in day to day issues, retaining the right to have the final say.  He also wants me to eventually go to work.  Being a slave does not mean that your basic rights as a human being necessarily go out the window; you choose a person who matches your philosophies on life (my Master shares my view that slaves are people first, and need the basic necessities of a happy life; I wouldn't have approached him and begged his ownership if he didn't).

If I had a slave serving me (something that is entirely possible at some point) I would allow them to keep jobs/hobbies/friends/other things they needed to give them happiness in my service.  I don't see the point of denying someone mental (or physical) needs.  Wants, however, are a totally different thing.  Those are given at my discretion.

This is just my 2 cents, others may feel (and act) differently.

well wishes,



ElLobo50sBabyN -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 6:05:08 PM)

There are two boxes because they are different.  Even though it's debated and means different things to different people, it's still an indicator to many.  I identify as 'slave' instead of 'sub' after experiencing both.  Checking the 'slave' box brings me people searching for such without adding thousands of others that specifically seek their definition of 'sub'.  When a woman submissive or slave posts a profile on CM, it returns literally HUNDREDS of emails from Doms/Dommes that are looking. It cuts down on hundreds more, even if in a debated context. 

Just from my personal experience, I was introduced to the 'formal' lifestyle community by a professional domme.  She immediately recognized that I was submissive to the point of self-destruction and protected me accordingly.  Over time I have realized that I require very experienced Masters that need a slave, someone who is complete by expressing themselves in the ownership of a slave.  I have experienced being an object as a slave and am currently experiencing being a cherished possession as a slave.  Some might even say I'm not 'slave' enough now, because I'm loved and cherished and given certain freedoms.  But I am still a slave, still identify as such and still would never think of making a decision that affects my life and future without handing that choice over to my Master, who knows me better than I know myself, I feel.  

Sorry to go on and on, perhaps it's not even quite appropriate for a slave to be responding to this thread.  But no, putting both together wouldn't really make sense, but you can always state such things in your profile, maybe pick one first and see what types of people respond and then try the other for a while to see if different responses appear.  I found what I needed by stating in my previous profiles (before being owned by Daddy-Domunique55/Ellobo50) that I was seeking a Master who understood "the responsibility as well as the rewards of ownership."  It worked for me and I'm very content and happy.  I hope you're able to find a Mistress/Domme in whom's service you will find the same contentment and sense of fulfillment I feel in my own situation.



SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 6:07:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GernBlanston

Maybe my question needs to be slightly fine tuned...  my concern is that my identifying myself one way or the other that a potential Domme may pass me by or not find me in a search.  Since my concept of submission is so close to that of slavery, perhaps there should be just one check box.  Would that be wrong?


Let me give you an example of why a single box doesn't work.  My girl is a switch.  She enjoys dominating men but, for women, she prefers to submit.  However, she has a tendency to be a wise ass and could easily qualify as a bratty sub to a fair number of people.  Yet, for me, she is a slave.  A sarcastic, opinionated slave but a slave nonetheless.  Which box should she pick?  What if there was only one box to check?  Would it be false advertising if she chose slave and wasn't sufficiently slave-like for someone's tastes?
 
I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. 
 
Don't worry about picking the "wrong" box.  Pick the one that best suits you.  If the dominant is the right one, she won't care which one you choose as long as your idea of the relationship structure matches hers.  A smart dominant doesn't limit herself to a check box.



GernBlanston -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 6:10:28 PM)

I am impressed with the community in this forum.  For now I will remain as a slave, although a potential slave.  Thank you all for your opinions and experiences!





ShaktiSama -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/3/2008 9:58:46 PM)

Welcome to the forums, GB.  I can only echo what others have said about defining yourself and about the rights available in a relationship.  I can say, however, that what feels right when you're with one dominant may not be what feels right with another.

I am currently the owner of a male slave.  When I first approached the relationship, I really had no notion that a "slaveboy" was what I was looking for; I was just hoping to have a nice mutually loving relationship with a submissive man at some point.  If you had asked me, I woud have truthfully said that the word "slave" actually made me a bit uncomfortable, since it has associations with historic violence and subjugation of people who were robbed of human rights.  I suspect that my boykin would have told you the same thing--he probably would have said that his ideal dynamic was more like "pet", and would have called himself submissive at most.

*shrug*  Point is, these things change when you connect with a real person and the real dynamic forms.  What shape it takes cannot always be predicted, and neither can we always say how it will shape us--transform our desires, re-locate our limits, etc..

Just on a practical note, I wouldn't worry too much about the issue of keeping your job, whether you are defined in the end as sub or slave:  very few dominants are independently wealthy and looking for an adult male mouth to feed.  Being employed or at least willing and able to work outside the home is usually seen as a good thing, in a man.

That issue of exercising authority in the relationship, on the other hand, might be a stickier thing.  You do not mention exactly what sort of decisions you want to make; but if you're going to try to exercise control over serious matters in the relationship, I can see how you might run into real trouble.  Most dominants of either sex are not interested in yielding control in any aspect of their lives.  It's part of what makes people dominant, as near as I can tell.



thetammyjo -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/4/2008 6:30:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GernBlanston

I am presented with a dilemma.  Am I a potential slave or a sub?

What I seek is essentially total power exchange except that it would be nice to have a bit of decision making authority in certain day to day necessities.  That authority, I feel, should be under routine review of the Domme and subject to interrogation and possible revocation/modification by Her at any time.  Also, I have a full-time job and would like to keep it, only being a sub/slave when not at work.

So which box should I check:  sub or slave?




I know this will piss off folks, but I honestly do not believe that anyone can put themselves down as a slave or an owner until they are in a dynamic where those terms apply to the dynamic they have negotiated and are supporting.

If you don't know, I'd check "sub" because once you are in a relationship you will change hopefully for the better.



beeble -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/4/2008 11:15:30 AM)

quote:

hopelesslyInvo wrote: to me it's dumb for the site to separate them, it's like having people choose between domme or mistress. people can only choose to view either subs or slaves, not both,

It's the second part that's dumb.  I wouldn't be happy ticking the `slave' box; lots of people who call themselves slaves wouldn't be happy ticking the `sub' box.  But the site should allow people to search for `subs or slaves' or any combination that suits them.

beeble



stella41b -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/4/2008 3:07:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I know this will piss off folks, but I honestly do not believe that anyone can put themselves down as a slave or an owner until they are in a dynamic where those terms apply to the dynamic they have negotiated and are supporting.

If you don't know, I'd check "sub" because once you are in a relationship you will change hopefully for the better.


Exactly. Seeing that BDSM and D/s are both heavily reliant on human interaction between two or more people, and that you express a preference for a submissive role in the relationship, I would leave this until you have found someone who wants to have a relationship with you in the dominant role and you work it out between you.

Like tammyjo said check 'sub' and leave it until you're developing a relationship with someone.

Just be yourself and look for someone who is being themselves. The dynamic comes later and with it the answers to most of your questions. Trying to find the answers to such questions now on your own will probably only result in you limiting your options.



GoddessTeaze -> RE: Slave or Submissive? (11/5/2008 6:36:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GernBlanston
I am presented with a dilemma.  Am I a potential slave or a sub?
So which box should I check:  sub or slave?

quote:

thetammyjo
I know this will piss off folks,

quote:

GoddezzT`
But you just love it !!!
[sm=biggrin.gif]

*winx*
GoddezzT`




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