RE: Who has it really? (Full Version)

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IvyMorgan -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 12:46:56 PM)

quote:

Ever Heard the Phrase "A girl who has completely surrendered would Jump off a Building or walk across Broken Glass if her Master desired." I used to think it was Bullshit. After a few Years I began to believe that it was only true because a girl who surrenders would only do so to someone she knew would never require her to do so. Then Later I realized that a women who has completely surrendered would do so because to no do so would be more painful than the task she was asked to do was.

Which is why I can envisiage a situation where I would have "no" limits.

As far as who has the power, I have no idea.  But, I know that I always have control.  Even when submitting and not bottoming.  I always have control over the situation, my actions, and to some extent the actions of my partner/dominant.  Perhaps I am then "topping from the bottom" but the fact that I have this control does not mean I necessarily use it.



pinkwind -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 12:48:48 PM)

We both have power, in differing amounts at different times, and agree at the outset to exchange that power, as well as accept who will wield the most for the good of both.




colouredin -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 1:10:17 PM)

Well you would initially have to ask what is power, and is any of it really about power. Does power exchange mean that you have no power at all? Surely if you have the power to take it back then the exchange is superficial anyways. I think its an interesting question, to me I think both have power but that will vary depending on your definition of the word



NorthernGent -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 1:12:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

'After all, we have the power. Never mind the philosophical arguments that the slaves are the power holders here. The slave has one power only - to quit. We have everything else, including the threat of dismissal.'
 


Power is exercised by means of that which you bring to the table.

Where both parties believe one person is bringing more to the table, and I'm confident that while not being uniform, it's commonplace; then you're in the realms of dependence, and that is far more than an arrangement concerned with authority.

The power to knock it on the head? 'More of a last resort and a defence mechanism, rather than an indication of power.



RCdc -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 1:53:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Everyone does.  But then, it's not about power.
 
the.dark.


For you.
For me there is a 'power exchange' involved.


Well Misst, I just kinda thought you would get that without me having to add a disclaimer!
 
the.dark.



Padriag -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 2:27:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

So who do you think really has the power?

My personal view is that it can and does vary widely based on several factors.
I would say, that in most cases the "power" is shared to some degree... and what really varies is how much.  D/s relationships are, at least in theory, based in part on a deliberate and formal inequality of power or authority.

So how much this inequality of power varies... how far the balance shifts one way or the other depends on at least the following in my view:
Personal choice - in most such relationships there is some kind of agreement about how much authority or power one has over the other.  That choice can be subject to change, and when that occurs other factors come into play.
Desire - when the previous personal choice is threatened (perhaps because the agreement was broken), power tends to shift to whomever desires the relationship the least (provided they wish to exert control over the relationship)... in other words, whomever is least willing to "quit".



CatdeMedici -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 2:47:46 PM)

the power is in the dynamic,  because with out it there is no reason to quit and no reason to dismiss.



Alighierisquest -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 3:14:17 PM)

A lot of people have already said both parties share power either in equal amounts, different amounts, or under specific circumstances.  I would venture that most doms and subs don't overly examine these issues much, someone who did ponder about the power they wielded too much might not be thinking about their power exchange in the right light. 



catize -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 4:33:32 PM)

From wikipedia:  Power  broadly defined is any ability to effect change or exert control over people.
 
We need to realize that any interaction with others will alter us; some changes will have a great impact, some not. 
 
I have met a number of self-described dominant men who were too willing to give up their power to get pussy.  They did not exert control over me.
 
Strip me of my ability as well as my desire to say ‘no’ and there is no question who is effecting the greatest change.



Huntertn -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 4:42:52 PM)

I believe its more give and take than just "who has the Power"..if you think its not..watch a sub die by willing it after her Master dies..or the Master that breaks apart after his sub dies, or leaves...Who has the Power is just not something thats so cut and dried as that...



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 4:43:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
'After all, we have the power. Never mind the philosophical arguments that the slaves are the power holders here. The slave has one power only - to quit. We have everything else, including the threat of dismissal.'

From tales of the marketplace, the academy.

So who do you think really has the power?

Everyone has their own innate power- whatever that may be.  You can't just suddenly say "I no longer have the power to speak" (of course noting the irony)

Everyone has veto "power" within the relationship, but that's not power over anyone and it irrelevant when discussing actual relationship dynamics.

It's about authority.



IAMChristine -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 4:44:34 PM)

whoever has veto power is in control.  a hard lesson that i'm learning.



AStudyInScarlet -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 4:45:28 PM)

the power is (should be) given freely, hence consent. so it is actually equal with the illusion of power exchanged. if one partner truly held the power against the other's will, we're talking about an unhealthy and abusive situation. so my final answer is that it is equal.



CalifChick -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 4:54:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

generally the person who cares the least about the relationship has the most power.


I was thinking the exact same thing, Omega.

I also find it sort of sad and ironic that some people talk about "my way or the highway" regarding power, but when they whine about why their girl won't do what they want her to, and you ask them what happened to "my way or the highway", they say, "I can't do that because of (whatever)."  That certainly seems like their power is but an illusion, and a feeble one at that.


Cali



missturbation -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 4:56:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Everyone does.  But then, it's not about power.
 
the.dark.


For you.
For me there is a 'power exchange' involved.


Well Misst, I just kinda thought you would get that without me having to add a disclaimer!
 
the.dark.

 
I should have done, my apologies [:D]



Barelily -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 5:42:37 PM)

I agree with JustDarkness.
quote:

does it matter who has it...when every one is happy?



celticlord2112 -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 5:55:51 PM)

quote:

So who do you think really has the power?

Power emanates from the slave to be manipulated by the master, just as electricity flows from one pole to the other.



StayOfExecution -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 5:58:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So who do you think really has the power?

Power emanates from the slave to be manipulated by the master, just as electricity flows from one pole to the other.



That's a nice way of putting it.

I see it as a mutual thing.  But if I had to slice it down, I guess the bottom has the power, but the top has the control. 



MadRabbit -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 6:31:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Are you implying i am not secure with my orientation and my own relationships? Because after all as far as you are concerned i wouldn't have asked this question if i was secure in myself.
 

Nope, actually on the contrary, I was trying to reference the general debate on this topic and wasn't meant to imply anything personally to you.
 
quote:


Tha answer is obvious huh?
So who here has it right and who has it wrong?
I see a variance of answers and well since the answer is 'obvious' to you i hope you will care to share it.
 
 
I just see mostly semantical debate.

As I already said, it's the person who is labeled dominant who has the authority/control/power/whatever and calls the shots and the submissive who doesn't.

Apparently some people in the world need to distort this with philosophical-pseudo-paradox talk and I don't quite get it. Won't it make more sense to call the dominant's submissive and the submissive's dominants then if that's true?

My apologies if I am coming off grumpy, but this, along with definitions debates, has left a generally bad taste in my mouth. My discernment is directed toward the topic itself and not at you for starting the topic.




faithbunny -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 7:46:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So who do you think really has the power?

Power emanates from the slave to be manipulated by the master, just as electricity flows from one pole to the other.



I like that. Sexy. ; )

~faith



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