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Protect you from what? - 3/4/2004 6:10:14 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I don't know if this is a real thing or what trolls say. I've heard female slaves/subs want a Dom/Master "to protect them." Maybe I'm missing something, but protect them from what exactly.

Like I said, this might come from people who claim to be a Dom or bad fiction and may cause much laughter.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/5/2004 11:12:06 AM   
inyouagain


Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline 		Very likely to protect them from themselves ?

Allowing a person control who is not capable can result in situations that hindsight should have 'protected' the female sub/slave from her own decisions, behavior, inclinations, lack of judgement, discretion, truthfulness, trustworthiness, faith in their abilities or worthiness, and the list goes on, it seems the list is quite infinite in some cases... but not necessarily applicable 'across the board' (pun intended)...

Of course the usual protections apply also, ie. from injury, disease, danger, recklessness, and of course the elements of Maslow's Triangle/Heiarchy of needs, in addition to the female subslave's physical, mental and spiritual health/safety, and in many cases this list does not end... it accummulates more items and responsibilities for the Master/Dom as the relationship progresses under His care, guidance, and training.

Regardless of gender, if I were to ever be inclined to completely place myself in another's hands, I would also specifically ask for my Dominant's protection (regardless of their gender).

I don't take this topic as a gender specific concern, as it crosses over gender lines.

Inyouagain

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/6/2004 5:44:22 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		inyouagain,

quote:

I don't take this topic as a gender specific concern, as it crosses over gender lines.


I've never read a Female Dominate tell me she'll "protect" me. I've never heard of a male sub/slave say he enjoys his Mistress's protection.

Otherwise I can't quibble with your answer.

Any female subs think differently?

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to inyouagain)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/6/2004 6:45:15 AM   
belongtoyou


Posts: 168
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline 		iwillserveu,

you pose a good question. For me, wearing a choker to work every day, as my Dom requires; it makes me feel protected.

i equate my feeling of safety in this way; much like puppies are trained and cared for; my Dom does the same for me. Essentially; while He is training me to be obedient, and know my place; He also provides for my safety (emotionally) and well-being. i know that i can trust Him to displine me when i've done something wrong; yet reward me for good behavior as well.

This being said; i know that i have friends and family who care for me, and are supportive in many ways. The point i'm stressing is that in my daily life, i feel as though someone is "looking out" for me; and this provides a feeling of safety.

Does this make sense?

~rain~

< Message edited by belongtoyou -- 3/6/2004 11:11:48 PM >

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/6/2004 4:55:53 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		belongtoyou,

I hate to be one of those that answers a question with a question, but it doesn't matter if it makes sense to me. What matters is "does it make sense to you?"

If you are curious as to my opinion, I mentally understand it. It is a guy thing, but if a Mistress told me she protected me I'd take it as an insult. (Although it might be true in the "Please, Mistress whip me more despite all the blood" sense.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to belongtoyou)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/6/2004 10:46:12 PM   
belongtoyou


Posts: 168
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline 		good point, iwillserveu

It makes sense to me. Thanks for offering your opinion in return.

And, actually, i enjoy answering a question with a question. you stated that if you Mistress told you She protected you, you'd take it as an insult.

Why is that, exactly? Is it b/c you are a man? i would think that even macho men (if males subs are seen as such) would like to know that the person they are serving is looking out for them, in some respect, otherwise, it could been seen as neglect, no?

hmmmm....your thoughts?

~rain~

< Message edited by belongtoyou -- 3/6/2004 11:11:22 PM >

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/7/2004 2:13:29 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		belongtoyou.

From what I've read I'm the only male sub/slave to have an iota of self worth. (Of course, I could be blinded by all the wannabes.)

I would find it an insult the same way as someone saying I'm hiding behind a woman's skirt. (Part of it is society's image of what men should be that I internalized. Hey, nobody escapes socialization or expects the Spanish Inquisition!)

"Protection" is my job, and "from what?" is a real question. If the Mistress claims she will protect me the implication is it is from a bogeyman that I am too much of a coward to face. It is a direct assault on my John Wayne-liness.

Of course, female subs do not have that socialization. If your Dom says he will "protect" you it is not an insult to your, um, Katherine Hepburn-liness. That is why I intellectually can understand it, but will never really, totally understand it. [Like fire play from the sub/slave's perspective. Intellectually I understand someone being turned on by it, but I would be screaming my safeword before the match was applied.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to belongtoyou)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/7/2004 2:14:20 AM   
inyouagain


Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: inyouagain,
I don't take this topic as a gender specific concern, as it crosses over gender lines.


Perhaps my comment was not in context with your question? It seems my statement was in regard to serving a Dominant, from a sub point of view (what is expected from me by a sub). In that context, I see protection as safekeeping across the board, in and out of scenes, of mind, body and soul. This is a Dominant's responsibility to the sub, and should be an expectation of the sub, regardless of gender.

In your true context, as in the 'heard words' of a female sub/slave anticipating 'protection' from 'her' prospective Dominant, I would ask why you did not ask her, or them to elaborate? That actually makes this thread appear more of a recreational venture, devil's advocate pun, punch & jab... I'm now curious as to the intent of your original question's context. Anything anyone seeks can be falsely promised, therefore 'protection' may be a common troll buzzword, indeed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu,
I've never read a Female Dominate tell me she'll "protect" me. I've never heard of a male sub/slave say he enjoys his Mistress's protection.


This reference could easily further imply you are seeking entertainment by playfully yanking at gender strings in jest... but you could in fact be sincere also?

A good point made by ~rain~ is why are you not feeling protected by your Domme/Mistress? In your complete submission do you not lose your male ego, and the natural inborn tendency to protect vs. be protected? Are you saying male subs are not as submissive as female subs?

How often are male subs/slaves whored out, rented out, used as fuckmeat for sale, glory holes, work as strippers for their Domme/Mistress, etc? A female sub may be concerned over those issues, and seek her Dominant's 'protection' from such use, while other's may seek such use, not considering themselves in need of 'protection' from same.

Is it merely an issue of natural male ego vs. female need (ie. plug vs. receptacle), and are promises made to satisfy each? Does a male sub submit himself completely any differently than a female sub? If you say yes, there lies your answer. If you say no, then why this thread to begin with?

Your answer may lie in the question to the question that came up based on your first question?

Inyouagain

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/7/2004 5:12:36 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		inyouagain,

Reread your first post. In case you did not notice your talking down to me attitude, I'll point it out. You assume experience with Mistresses was not as complete as your. That leaves me with a choice. Do I believe you or my own eyes?

Second, this is the "ask a submissive/slave" board. You have a valid point. A point I appreciate and did not consider. (Namely the answer is "Protect you from yourself.")

However, when I ask for opinions from submissive/slaves I want opinions from submissive/slaves. You were the only response. There is a reason I did not post this on the "ask a master board". (In case you don't know it, maybe sub females know what they are thinking better than you, or is your E.S.P. flawless?)

Why this thread to begin with is I want to hear from FEMALE SUBMISSIVES why. I will never fully understand it. (In case you never noticed, men and women are different. The emoticon is because I doubt you never noticed.) I will also never fully understand being a lesbian, but that does not mean I am not intellectually curious.

If you are wondering when I jest I use , , and a lot. Although sometimes I forget, if it is not there it is probably not a joke. I have never read a femdom (domina, Domme) say she will protect me. There is no emoticon after that sentence. I am reporting fact. (Unless you again wish to declare my experience invalid you cannot contest my experience. Sorry to everyone else for belaboring the obvious, but I think I may have to.)

To answer your question about how often male subs are whored out, etc. I don't know. It occurs in fiction I've read, but that is not a terribly reliable source.

To send your example back TO SUBMISSIVE WOMEN, how many are concerned you could be whored out, etc.? Could you just say no to that? (Lack of consent ends the relationship, but you can get so into it you might easily forget that.) Do you look to a Dom to protect you from other Doms that would be your pimp if they could?


quote:

A good point made by ~rain~ is why are you not feeling protected by your Domme/Mistress? In your complete submission do you not lose your male ego, and the natural inborn tendency to protect vs. be protected? Are you saying male subs are not as submissive as female subs?


We posted at about the same time, but I'll answer you.

Male subs are not less submissive. A case can be made they are more submissive. They are not. Male submission is different. (Maybe female subs can tell me how female submission works better than a male dom can tell me, don'tchathink?)

What is more submissive, protecting your Mistress or not protecting her? (That is why it isn't a D/s thing it is a Male/Female thing.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to inyouagain)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/7/2004 6:51:49 AM   
inyouagain


Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu

inyouagain,

Reread your first post. In case you did not notice your talking down to me attitude, I'll point it out. You assume experience with Mistresses was not as complete as your. That leaves me with a choice. Do I believe you or my own eyes?


I'd suggest you read it again, and believe what you want. I posed a thought followed by a question mark. Afterwards I offered an opinion, to which you seem to differ. Your inference of a condescending attitude in my first post is imaginary on your part.

quote:


Second, this is the "ask a submissive/slave" board. You have a valid point. A point I appreciate and did not consider. (Namely the answer is "Protect you from yourself.")

However, when I ask for opinions from submissive/slaves I want opinions from submissive/slaves. You were the only response. There is a reason I did not post this on the "ask a master board". (In case you don't know it, maybe sub females know what they are thinking better than you, or is your E.S.P. flawless?)

Why this thread to begin with is I want to hear from FEMALE SUBMISSIVES why. I will never fully understand it. (In case you never noticed, men and women are different. The emoticon is because I doubt you never noticed.) I will also never fully understand being a lesbian, but that does not mean I am not intellectually curious.


Don't we see a condescending attitude here? An extremely hypocritical condescending attitude I might add... every forum on his board has your comments and feedback posted! You didn't get your 155 posts in this forum alone, so stop with the idiotic dramatics... you live in a glass house, so be careful with them stones you're throwing Eugene.

Does this mean the 'Ask a Master' forum will now suffer without your ESP & infinite wisdom... OMG I hope we survive, don't hold your breath, you will likely continue to post there as you make your merry rounds... sprinkling your 2¢ worth in forums not 'as you say, intended' for 'your' input... but OMG it's there any how... is that magic? I know it most certainly could not be a double-standard for an 'ms' to post all over the board, yet expect a Master to not post in a 'certain' forum... get a grip! Come back to earth... btw, what are you on anyhow? (looks like a bad batch?)

quote:


If you are wondering when I jest I use , , and a lot. Although sometimes I forget, if it is not there it is probably not a joke. I have never read a femdom (domina, Domme) say she will protect me. There is no emoticon after that sentence. I am reporting fact. (Unless you again wish to declare my experience invalid you cannot contest my experience. Sorry to everyone else for belaboring the obvious, but I think I may have to.)


lol, we're used to it!

quote:


To answer your question about how often male subs are whored out, etc. I don't know. It occurs in fiction I've read, but that is not a terribly reliable source.


This is a message board, sorry but the question was to everyone reading... not just to special walk on water you, sigh, but your opinion is always appreciated, really.

quote:


To send your example back TO SUBMISSIVE WOMEN, how many are concerned you could be whored out, etc.? Could you just say no to that? (Lack of consent ends the relationship, but you can get so into it you might easily forget that.) Do you look to a Dom to protect you from other Doms that would be your pimp if they could?


Your speculative handling of my question is amusing, however your LOC comment is false. Established limits are not consensual, therefore in your 're-handled' example, your inference a female sub is bound by servitude to be whored, etc else the relationship ends... is ignorant at best. Limits are established prior to activities engaged, so the female sub/slave has the right to negotiate limits, which may or may not include being whored out, etc, you seem to be unaware of this?

quote:

Inyouagain: A good point made by ~rain~ is why are you not feeling protected by your Domme/Mistress? In your complete submission do you not lose your male ego, and the natural inborn tendency to protect vs. be protected? Are you saying male subs are not as submissive as female subs?


iwillserveu:
We posted at about the same time, but I'll answer you.

Male subs are not less submissive. A case can be made they are more submissive. They are not. Male submission is different. (Maybe female subs can tell me how female submission works better than a male dom can tell me, don'tchathink?)

What is more submissive, protecting your Mistress or not protecting her? (That is why it isn't a D/s thing it is a Male/Female thing.)


You've really excelled here iwillserveu... massively idiotic dramatics, driven by a definite condescending attitude towards Male Dominants, which is fairly cute in an idiotic dramatic fashion, but you'll find we get bored quickly by cute attituded ms' and pay them little to no mind... we understand you in particular appear to suffer PMS symptoms often, akin to sympathetically subliminal ESP??? (a shot in the dark!)

I really don't know what your problem is, and don't care. But don't even get your panties in a wad over one (or any) of my posts... I won't care either way, and you won't need to spurt cute drivel in my direction and attempt to chastise me for your misperceptions, misgivings, double-standards, and/or substance abuse, or otherwise?

I have no misconceptions as to where the condescending attitude you mentioned resides, as you've displayed it fully in your last post... for all to see.

A female sub/slave is expected to always make her Master/Dom proud of her actions, near or far from him... judging by your actions, posts across the board, pushing of double-standards, and attitude... I would wonder if your Mistress/Domme has been made proud of you? If yes, then there's a world of difference in the world and lifestyle as we know it vs. the way you know it.

Inyouagain

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/7/2004 7:06:43 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I don't take this topic as a gender specific concern, as it crosses over gender lines.


It does not cross over gender lines. Unless you want to claim you have more experience with Mistresses and male sub/slaves than me and claim they always offer "protection"....

Yes my attitude is condescending. I'm replying in kind. (Treating other as they treat you, whata concept)

Hey I have to run. I'll condescend to you more later.

I'm so rushed I can't even spellcheck. Sorry for any typos.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to inyouagain)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/7/2004 7:44:44 AM   
belongtoyou


Posts: 168
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline 		hmm, perhaps we should bring out the boxing gloves now?

Here is my humble opinion yet again: there appear to be a couple of things going on during this lively discourse:

1) inyouagain is attempting to rationalize with someone who is obviously incapable of rational thought

2) From my limited sub experience, i wonder: is iwillserveu actually a sub? Although he does sound psychologically masochistic....

3) From my social worker background, i wonder: does iwillserveu suffer from a personality disorder?

i do NOT say these things in jest, it has been my experience that persons (such as iwillserveu) who enjoy causing drama; splitting people's opinons, taking them out of context, setting up arguments, and watching the drama unfold; do indeed suffer from either mental illness or a personality disorder. WHile it may be amusing to observers at times, it can also be dangerous psychologically.

If either of these things are a reality; than it would be in my best interest to "protect myself" from such toxic persons by ignoring them completly.

Please take of yourself iwillserveu. i do hope your Mistress will assist you with getting the care you need; protect you, and keep you safe.

Sincerely

~rain~

< Message edited by belongtoyou -- 3/7/2004 7:45:45 AM >

(in reply to iwillserveu)
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RE: Protect you from what? - 3/7/2004 5:23:39 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If either of these things are a reality; than it would be in my best interest to "protect myself" from such toxic persons by ignoring them completly.


Protect yourself by insulting them? Very rational response.

Oh, I apologize for the misspelling in the quote. I don't feel I have the right to change it.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to belongtoyou)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/7/2004 8:14:17 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu


"Protection" is my job, and "from what?" is a real question. If the Mistress claims she will protect me the implication is it is from a bogeyman that I am too much of a coward to face. It is a direct assault on my John Wayne-liness.

Of course, female subs do not have that socialization. If your Dom says he will "protect" you it is not an insult to your, um, Katherine Hepburn-liness.


I just got done watching a movie with Antonio Banderas and Salma Hayek. In this movie Salma is Antonios "girl friend, wife, SO, whatever." He gets into a tight spot and she comes in with lethal weapons blazing and kicks massive ass - they escape together. Didn't seem to minimize Antonio's machismo even a tiny bit.

Everyone at some time or another will experience vulnerability. If I'm letting someone into my inner circle I want the kind of relationship in which I know my back is covered....and they know I will cover theirs. It's quite possible that the occasion to draw up this 'protection' never comes - but I want to believe of someone close to me that it's part of our dynamic. Team, symbiosis.

I find a man who knows when to be vulnerable and rely on their relationship, and who can allow their partner to be as vulnerable, incredibly attractive. I see it as a strength.

But that's just me, and while I am fem, I am no sub.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to iwillserveu)
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RE: Protect you from what? - 3/7/2004 10:43:25 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		In reply to iwillserveyou and belongtoyou, what in the hell are you talking about?

(in reply to MizSuz)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/8/2004 7:13:00 AM   
belongtoyou


Posts: 168
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline 		LOL Estring,

If you don't know, i can't tell you!

~rain~

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/8/2004 7:42:09 AM   
londonswitch


Posts: 77
Joined: 3/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:



3) From my social worker background, i wonder: does iwillserveu suffer from a personality disorder?

i do NOT say these things in jest, it has been my experience that persons (such as iwillserveu) who enjoy causing drama; splitting people's opinons, taking them out of context, setting up arguments, and watching the drama unfold; do indeed suffer from either mental illness or a personality disorder. WHile it may be amusing to observers at times, it can also be dangerous psychologically.


(in reply to belongtoyou)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/8/2004 7:50:46 AM   
londonswitch


Posts: 77
Joined: 3/1/2004
Status: offline 		Oops, stuffed that quote business up. Not wise in the ways of web boards. Sorry.

What I want to say is that labels like personality disorder and psychopathy are easily and effectively created and damagingly applied. They are often meaningless and unhelpful in that people then walk away from those labelled. When I nursed people labelled this way when I was younger, a psychopath label obscured issues which were often behavioural and allowed us non-psychopaths to 'not bother'.

I would much rather see people's behaviour commented on with structured suggestions on welcome amendments, than see a label applied. Rain, you did the comments bit, but what do you suggest? And may Wallace-Grommit-who-serves might not just be a bit bored and having, as you suggested, a laugh?

Yours over-sensistively (neurasthenic self label?? *laugh*), nadine.

(in reply to londonswitch)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/8/2004 5:36:56 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:




belongtoyou,

I hate to be one of those that answers a question with a question, but it doesn't matter if it makes sense to me. What matters is "does it make sense to you?"


Dear Rain,

I include my original irrational mad man response to you when you asked if it made sense to me.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to belongtoyou)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Protect you from what? - 3/8/2004 7:45:46 PM   
tweetygirl


Posts: 19
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		I am a lesbian female and think that feeling protected is imported. I need to feel safe and loved it is an important feeling. I need to feel protected. Feeling safe and protected is part of love. I guess females feelings are different then males feelings.

Amanda

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 20
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