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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:30:18 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD
You have not listened to people Bash President Bush for eight years. It started the last two when he stole our money and dignity.

I don't know where you were the first six years of his "presidency", but I've heard him being bashed pretty much since the beginning.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:39:26 AM

Satyr6406

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I agree that this is NOT a first amendment issue. Unfortunately, though, that's because it seems that some of us aren't allowed to indulge in our first amendment rights.

I am sick and tired of saying: "I didn't vote for President-elect Obama" to a person of color only to have them ASSUME that that means that I voted for senator McCain and proceed to call me a racist.

I do NOT agree with President-elect Obama's politics. I don't care what color his skin is. Socialists and liars come in all different colors and shapes and religious backgrounds.

< Message edited by Satyr6406 -- 11/7/2008 8:40:26 AM >

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:44:12 AM

justgemmie

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hi kittenSol

ummmm, i didn't know i was fighting? i was giving an opinion and asking a question. a lot of the political things i didn't argue about because i didn't know enough to give a well-informed opinion. this was, simply, an opinion.

but to respond to you about this area, it's not that i agree with what he did. i don't. it's not that i specifically disagree with what the consequences were. again, i don't really. but what i do seriously worry about is our rights being taken away. slowly but surely, if "X" happens, it opens the door for "Y" to happen down the road, and the next thing you know, you can't do something that we used to be able to do. gun control is an example, freedom of speech another.

quote:

original: DesFIP

More importantly, the team rules prohibit things like this, he knew it and did it anyway. If he stole a case of pens from the team and was canned for that, it would be equally valid. You don't want to do the time, then don't do the crime.

if he was canned because it broke the rules of his school, then YAY, he suffered the consequences of his actions. i totally believe in that. believe me, i've suffered lots of consequences for my actions after all these years.

as an aside, just as child molesters and mother-killers have "peer review" in prison, i believe that folks who say and do things in their life will have their own "peer review" so-to-speak.

greetings Musicmystery :) i knew it was the First Amendment. :( my apologies for not correcting the quote. truth is, i didn't catch it.

gemmie

kittenSol -- any particular reason why you've never spoken to me in any thread i've ever written on that we were both on ,,,, and now you've picked this one to ask me about?

< Message edited by justgemmie -- 11/7/2008 8:55:17 AM >

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:44:43 AM

MasterVirago

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty
It would appear that he made a racially oriented comment, and also that he made an implied threat on the President elect. It is against the law to threaten the President. I don't know about the President elect.

It's illegal to threaten ANYONE with death. Threatening the president just makes it a federal crime with a harsher sentence.

quote:

Is the first amendment to be perverted to the point that our right to free speech is curtailed at the first offense or insult? I hope not. I expect just about anything uttered offends someone. It doesn't seem a reasonable standard to measure by.

This isn't about his legal rights. Many organizations, including college and professional athletic teams have rules of conduct that can get you dismissed, because your actions reflect upon the organization itself. If I had said something like that about Bush, my job would have fired me without so much as an hour to pack my stuff.

quote:

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't beieve in it at all." Noam Chomsky

Well, this is a discussion I've been having with various people for literally decades. It will always be a grey area. But basically your freedoms end where mine begins and vice versa.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:46:38 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

It's illegal to threaten ANYONE with death. Threatening the president just makes it a federal crime with a harsher sentence.

Good point. In fact, even to threaten someone verbally with a firearm is a misdemeanor.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:50:14 AM

MasterVirago

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quote:

ORIGINAL: justgemmie

ok, this is meant in all seriousness because i truly don't know the answer. is alluding to a death threat illegal? i mean, he didn't say "i'm going to kill the president," although by what he said you pretty much knew what he meant. and it also did not sound to me like an actual threat as opposed to voicing an opinion in extremely poor taste. so truly, my question is, is that illegal?

well wishes,
gemmie

Whether or not it is illegal will decided by the judicial system. Posting something that is detrimental to the image of the team is the issue. That is a very legitimate reason to be kicked off the team, just as the players who are fined or kicked off for getting into fights, public drunkenness, domestic violence, speaking ill of officiators, team members or staff.

This has mothing to with the law at all. Those are standard rules for almost every college and professional athletic league.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:56:31 AM

MasterVirago

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406
I am sick and tired of saying: "I didn't vote for President-elect Obama" to a person of color only to have them ASSUME that that means that I voted for senator McCain and proceed to call me a racist.

I do NOT agree with President-elect Obama's politics. I don't care what color his skin is. Socialists and liars come in all different colors and shapes and religious backgrounds.

It goes both ways.

I'm sick and tired of saying: "I voted for Barack Obama" to a person not of color only to have them ASSUME that I voted for him because he is black.

I'm a registered independent who has voted rep before, when I've felt they were qualified. I won't get into name calling, neighbor. It will only fuel the riffs already in this country.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:58:53 AM

justgemmie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterVirago

Whether or not it is illegal will decided by the judicial system. Posting something that is detrimental to the image of the team is the issue. That is a very legitimate reason to be kicked off the team, just as the players who are fined or kicked off for getting into fights, public drunkenness, domestic violence, speaking ill of officiators, team members or staff.

This has mothing to with the law at all. Those are standard rules for almost every college and professional athletic league.

thank You MasterVirago. see my post above. i agree, if the rules say don't, he shouldn't have fookin done it.

gemmie

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:58:54 AM

Musicmystery

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Yeah, really! Nor would I simply assume any black voter chose Obama.

Think Condi Rice voted for him?

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 9:00:12 AM

justgemmie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Think Condi Rice voted for him?

greetings again :)

personally, i'm surprised McCain didn't have Condi Rice as His running mate.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 9:00:23 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: justgemmie
kittenSol -- any particular reason why you've never spoken to me in any thread i've ever written on that we were both on ,,,, and now you've picked this one to ask me about?

Huh? I didn't 'pick' this thread just because you were on it.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 9:06:15 AM

marie2

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My thoughts are that the possible death threat in the statement had as much if not more to do with it than the racial slur. Although the racial slur may have been enough to get him kicked off the team also.

I agree with the others who said it's not a first amendment issue. If he was just a regular guy and not on the ball team of a University, the comment wouldn't have drawn any consequences because of the racial slur, but maybe for the interpretation of a death threat. That's a pretty serious thing even if he didn't intend to act on it.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 9:08:06 AM

MasterVirago

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quote:

ORIGINAL: justgemmie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Think Condi Rice voted for him?

greetings again :)

personally, i'm surprised McCain didn't have Condi Rice as His running mate.

RIGHT!?!? SHE is someone who could have brought over female voters, black voters, independents and more liberal voters. Palin was just not a good choice in my opinion. There's no way I would have voted for her. I would not have voted for Obama if he had chosen Palin as his running mate.

But I don't like that they want to blame her for losing the election. That blame should be left for those who ultimately chose her, not just McCain.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 9:22:10 AM

MissSCD

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I have always known where I was and what I was doing. People glorified Bush like he was some kind of king. King of the dogs. People hated Clinton from the get go. I made more money under Clinton's administration than any other President.
I am so glad we have a chance now.
Since you are perfect, imagine yourself with two disabilities and no way to support yourself the way you did when you were healthy. The Bush administration done nothing to help people like us.

Now we have hope to be what we are capable of being rather than being ignored.

Regards, MissSCD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD
You have not listened to people Bash President Bush for eight years. It started the last two when he stole our money and dignity.

I don't know where you were the first six years of his "presidency", but I've heard him being bashed pretty much since the beginning.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 9:48:03 AM

Cagey18

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterVirago

(Condi) is someone who could have brought over female voters, black voters, independents and more liberal voters.

Perhaps, but she had two marks against her. She's never held an elected office (kind of a prerequisite for Vice-President). More important, she's closely associated with Bush and the Iraq War, and McCain was desperately trying to convince voters he wasn't Bush III.

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Post #: 35

RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 10:08:31 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD
Since you are perfect

Thank you, but I wouldn't go that far, really...

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 11:05:23 AM

Cagey18

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD
Since you are perfect

Thank you, but I wouldn't go that far, really...

Au contraire.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 11:11:25 AM

justgemmie

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kittenSol ~~

you have c-mail.

gemmie

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 6:15:00 PM

tazzygirl

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i think many things occured that lead this young man to be kicked off the team. one, im sure somewhere in his facebook account, it mentioned him being a team member of the college. for most schools and employers, that automatically sends up signals when they do searches. yes, your words on here in reference to your jobs or activities can be monitored if they know who you are or where to look. and you may be held accountable for what you post.

i dont think it was soley the racial slur... or the veiled threat, though, either could have done the job. it seems to me a case could be made for him and his buddy for trying to incite a hate crime in almost a mob like atmophere. he wasnt planning it alone.. he called for help. he may have felt it was funny.. its time we started teaching our children the difference between a joke in good taste, and something that may land them in jail.

he represented an organization that has alot of donors, big money is in college football. many Universities depend on alumni to help support the athletic teams. many of teh scholarships are promoted by these same alumni. imagine the utter embarrassment of a school that allowed this to pass... then went out looking for donations. or started recruiting for the next year. how many good athletes would hang their name on a school that allows racial slurs and ill concealed death threats to pass as a "oh, he is just a kid" kind of thing.

i often work with young kids his age, and their attitudes are deplorable. many have stated to me why Obama when we had a nice, white man running for president. and i am just shocked. its time parents started being parents again and teaching their children some basic core vaules such as respect, curtesy, and when the hell to keep their damn mouths shut. what you think is your own business.. what you say to friends who think like you is also your own business. what you put out into the web is everyone's business. its time for children and parents to stop thinking these young kids are entitled to what they have. you have to earn everything you get.. and keep earning it. kids arent owed anything beyond food, shelter, clothes and a basic education.. and even that can be taken away.

just my own opinion

tazzy

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:50:48 PM

moonvine

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I hate to say this, but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that had the star quarterback made the same comments he would not have been kicked off the team. This was a backup player and thus expendable.

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