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RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 11:01:56 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Celeste, will you marry me?


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 11:05:02 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		ok, Im gonna just say Celeste you rock lady, seriously

Lucy


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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 11:07:38 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		I gotta say Celeste thats has to be one of the best posts I have read on these boards for a long time

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 11:25:56 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Thanks Celeste for providing the exception to the rule of ignoring any of the issues. 

All your points are wonderful and well taken as examples of the original point. There is no inclusion necessary or needed. Use the power obtained and accept that on occasion you'll have to be a hypocrite to achieve your goal.

Let the actions of PE Obama speak for themselves and don't worry about trying to sell the other side or convincing them they're included. It is as it was - no inclusion and no difference; as I stated.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 1:02:22 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


Let the actions of PE Obama speak for themselves and don't worry about trying to sell the other side or convincing them they're included. It is as it was - no inclusion and no difference; as I stated.


Well, 14 million people were included in the election process who never took steps prior to this cycle to include themselves. That goes to show that grassroots works. If it can work for an election cycle, it can work for other things as well. Inspiration and perspiration. I never felt inspired by Bush or Clinton so I had no desire to sweat for either one of them. I got very involved in this cycle, more so than I've ever been before. So, that's a difference and one shared by a great many people besides myself. Without that involvement by grassroots masses, Obama wouldn't be President-elect right now.  

Also, and this is on a personal note, but this is the very first time that my daughter has ever been interested in 'how' things work in our government. She's starting to ask questions, why, what, how and she's not satisfied with just letting things be. It is no longer enough for her to call up Mom to find out what's happening in the world. She wants to find things out for herself. There's a new set of eyes watching. Eyes that I don't think ever cared enough to watch governmental processes because she's never before felt cared about. That's different, too.

Obama came out and told me what he wants from me. He wants me to read to my kids, to be active in my own process of improvement, to conserve for the environment. It's the use it up and wear it out mentality that came out of the Great Depression way back when. As a nation, we've gotten pretty used to consuming to the point where I'd be hard pressed to find the difference between us and locusts. He's not just go out and spend to help the fat cats get fatter but spend on our kids with time and energy so that the country gets fat and rich with diversity, intelligence and a new drive to excellence. He's not promising me that I'll get the world on a platter. He's not giving lip service to the concept of "America, greatest nation on the planet".. he's saying, it can be but you have to work for it. He's not telling me what I want to hear.. he's telling me what I have to do. That's different.

We're all part of the process and it's time that we stepped up to the plate instead of sit in the dugout cheering or booing. That's the sense I get from him and it feels so different, to me, from the 'close your eyes and don't watch me while I rape the country' feeling that I got from the current administration. It also feels very different from "you're the heart of America .. you chosen few are the pro-America, real Americans" that I got from the McCain campaign.

I'm inspired to serve because of the nature and character of Himself. I'm inspired to step up to that plate and swing at a few pitches by President-elect Obama. I might strike out, he might strike out but I think he's given us the best chance for being in the game while recognizing it may get called on account of rain. I don't know. I guess I just feel included in the process, like it's going to make a difference if I do my part and if you multiply that out by 300 million people that's a pretty big difference.

LaT - no.. I can't marry you. The masses have said it's not allowed. No XY + XX + XX .. yet.



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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 1:07:44 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I don't need to be nor want to be included in anything. If an argument or debate point can't convince me, guilt about being on the outside of the 'in crowd' won't do it either. Winning doesn't make it right, but change comes from convincing not demanding and not through insult or strong arm tactics.


Here here!

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 1:19:44 PM   
MasterVirago


Posts: 103
Joined: 10/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

I'm getting a little sick of that one too. Only anit-Obama people have used the term Messiah.


I would have voted for Obama so that's that claim out of the window.


I apologize for the generalization.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 1:22:26 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Hey!
I like all this inclusion stuff!
So, can we assume that Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin both of *other parties* will be included in an Obama Administration?
How about Mitt Romney? He's just what Obama needs for the financial end of things and he was *excluded* in the election because of his *religion!*
How about military veterans?
They know how to get things done without mucking up things like the young kid with a "degree" who can't wipe his own ass without filling out a form.
And hopefully Obama will be "inclusive" of enforcing our immigration laws that have been ignored for the last 8 years while Bush's friends made billions from it and drove working people's wages down to levels not seen for 20 years.
I'd like to see Obama be *inclusive* about going after and prosecuting all those lowlifes who hired illegal aliens and bought Mercedes Benz's with the "savings", they *really* do need to go to prison and make some new friends!
I have a bunch of pictures and lisense plate numbers for the police or ICE if they need them.
Obama is going to have to get rid of "Auntie Tunoose: or wtf her name is up in Boston before Jan 20th or it's going to be real embarrassing for him.
If Obama is going to "exclude" anyone it should be anyone who went to "YALE"!
After those last two *DUDS* in the W.H. *both* "YALE" graduates!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/7/2008 1:28:00 PM >

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RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 1:40:52 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

To be fair,and to provide some context,Merc voted for Bush, twice.

That is not providing context, but pointing out an irrelevant trifle.

Whether you agree or disagree with Merc's original post, how he has voted in prior elections--as well as the one just past--is wholly immaterial to the topic at hand.


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 2:12:41 PM   
theobserver


Posts: 456
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Since Tuesday the warm fuzzy feeling about PE Obama's election has generated a bunch of nonsense about the time being right for all of us to come together.

It's not limited to one side or the other but seems most disingenuous coming from many here on CM who've spent the last few years calling President Bush and/or the Republican party any nasty thing their limited mental abilities could conceive, wishing death not only to come, but to come painfully. Now they find it appropriate for the University of Texas to boot a player off the team for speaking his mind. Bush's actions as President were and are reprehensible, but he is still President and 'inclusionism' requires that acceptance of that programmatic fact the same way it's expected when Obama takes office. But that's not the case.

No - inclusionism,  especially by not exclusively to the left, is defined by agreement with them, and their 'principles' no matter how hypocritical they are in the face of side by side comparison. The most flagrant example is Prop 8 in CA. The vote came in resulting in overturning the activist court decision. The vote represented a defeat for 'inclusionism' of same sex marriage by the majority who voted Tuesday; but it was a vote conducted in the same manner that the Democratic majority in both houses was determined in Congress but because it wasn't the 'right' decision as seen by the left - the result is not accepted. Winning doesn't make it right, challenges are appropriate, but where is the 'inclusionism' of the democratic will of the voter of CA? Oh - yeah, its not 'right' and it's not 'PC' and it goes in the face of 'fair' and 'good intent'. So votes don't matter - yeah, that's the brand of inclusionism exclusively I see being sold. Agree with us or we'll insult, denigrate, disrespect, and, if possible, make your idea of freedom and liberty illegal or inaccessible.

Why else would a call to reimplemented the 'Fairness Doctrine' be considered a 'good' thing? How is it that killing a person is made worse or become a 'hate crime' when the perpetrator is not the same race? Well at least if he's a lighter race than the victim. Whether we point to the UT player, or the attempts to remove Senator Leiberman from his Committee chairmanship - there is no action behind the empty word inclusionism. Change? Here's the change; a different group now is in charge of and has the ability to to execute their version of "It's our way or the highway".

There's not a damn thing wrong with that either. "Go for it!"; I say, and enjoy your power. Relish in your conquest and do your best to get your way implemented as quickly and for as long as you can convince the masses that you have their best interests in mind. You don't - you have your best interests in mind like any other party in power; just don't waste my time with inclusionism propaganda in the face of actions, policy, and philosophy that only includes those capable of head bobbing agreement. 

I don't need to be nor want to be included in anything. If an argument or debate point can't convince me, guilt about being on the outside of the 'in crowd' won't do it either. Winning doesn't make it right, but change comes from convincing not demanding and not through insult or strong arm tactics.

'Inclusionism' is the new buzzword for 'politically correct' and just as meaningless and just as hypocritical coming from the majority. Their ability to rationalize their hypocrisy fully considered. 


I attempt to respect other's opinions (well actually I don't because I don't have to, however ...)

I don't see what any of your post has to do with President elect Obama (gee, I love saying that ... lemme say it again ... ). President Elect Obama, although elected by the people for the people, is not yet in office.

So, whether it be Prop 8 (a California state issue), some Texas Football controversy. Lieberman (who all but called Obama a terrorist) or the many other things you are bringing up, all is irrelevant to President Elect Obama.

Maybe wait till January to start tearing the man down. Then, it would hold a bit more weight.


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 2:33:03 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
There is a "monster". It's accepting a reduction of liberty and freedom even when you aren't in the included group the action is directed.

What was your opinion of the Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, the folks who were smeared with the "unpatriotic" label because they didn't support Bush, etc. et al?

thornhappy

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 2:37:30 PM   
FullfigRIMaam


Posts: 718
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I don't need to be nor want to be included in anything.


Not a problem, especially since this ghost of 'inclusionism' is very much one you have created yourself. It looks like you just wanted a reason to rant because you're bitter about Obama's election.

Now, you know how it must have felt for all the people who didn't vote for Bush and who had to suffer with a clown for head of state for two terms.

Enjoy the ride: at least this time, you have someone worthy of respect as your Lord and Master .
*Snort*   

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 3:52:03 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Now, you know how it must have felt for all the people who didn't vote for Bush and who had to suffer with a clown for head of state for two terms.

  You said it, sister!!!!!

luci

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 4:36:49 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Celeste,I would just like to point out tat I have loved you far longer than all of these "Johny-come-lately's " who have popped up in this thread singing your praises.No w I'm all for "inclusion' but on this issue I must stand firm....I saw her first,I declared my undying love and devotion first...and I resent all you folks trying to horn you're way in......sorry for the hijack,but some things are a matter of principal.

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RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 5:29:05 PM   
HagiaSophia


Posts: 39
Joined: 4/17/2008
From: St. Petersburg/Tampa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Hey!
I like all this inclusion stuff! [...]
How about Mitt Romney? He's just what Obama needs for the financial end of things and he was *excluded* in the election because of his *religion!*
How about military veterans?
They know how to get things done without mucking up things like the young kid with a "degree" who can't wipe his own ass without filling out a form.
And hopefully Obama will be "inclusive" of enforcing our immigration laws that have been ignored for the last 8 years while Bush's friends made billions from it and drove working people's wages down to levels not seen for 20 years.


Hmm, what about military veterans - like the ones in Walter Reed, under the Bush Admin., or the veterans who've come home from Iraq (having been sent there with inadequate impedimenta) with brain or spinal cord injuries, never again to be able to support their families or play with their kids? So what is is about an Obama administration, in comparison with the last 8 years under the Neo-Cons, that fills you with so much vitriol?  And frankly, I'll be for the inclusion of every crackpot religion and cult when logic, science and atheism are given the respect they deserve.

Oh and another thing - wages - if the Republicans hadn't given tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas, we wouldn't have this problem. The U.S. economy has always thrived on the influx of cheap immigrant labor (hello, railroads). And thank goodness, I don't want to pay $12 for a head of lettuce and lots of Mexicans want to risk their lives to come here and pick it for me, so that their children will live better lives as American citizens. I figure if a person wants to come and work in our country so badly that they'll risk death, battery, extortion and rape to get here, they've already proven their worth. That's the frontier spirit we so often give lip service to, in spades. We ALL come from immigrants (except for those who are pure-blooded Native American) - it is small and petty of us to withold that privilege from others, others who typically have darker skin. Amnesty takes nothing away from us. As if the principles that made this country great were so flimsy as to be overcome by an influx of a particular immigrant population. Lest we forget:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

- from "The New Colossus" by Emma Lazarus


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 5:39:06 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Hey!
I like all this inclusion stuff!
So, can we assume that Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin both of *other parties* will be included in an Obama Administration?
How about Mitt Romney? He's just what Obama needs for the financial end of things and he was *excluded* in the election because of his *religion!*
How about military veterans?
They know how to get things done without mucking up things like the young kid with a "degree" who can't wipe his own ass without filling out a form.
And hopefully Obama will be "inclusive" of enforcing our immigration laws that have been ignored for the last 8 years while Bush's friends made billions from it and drove working people's wages down to levels not seen for 20 years.
I'd like to see Obama be *inclusive* about going after and prosecuting all those lowlifes who hired illegal aliens and bought Mercedes Benz's with the "savings", they *really* do need to go to prison and make some new friends!
I have a bunch of pictures and lisense plate numbers for the police or ICE if they need them.
Obama is going to have to get rid of "Auntie Tunoose: or wtf her name is up in Boston before Jan 20th or it's going to be real embarrassing for him.
If Obama is going to "exclude" anyone it should be anyone who went to "YALE"!
After those last two *DUDS* in the W.H. *both* "YALE" graduates!

Popeye, do you ever write a post that doesn't include rants against 1) illegal immigration, and/or b) people with degrees?

thornhappy

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 6:16:38 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Hagia, ok then let's just have another continuation of the Bush Administration.
Obama has promised us "Change".
So if he doesn't enforce our immigration laws just like Bush didn't then that wouldn't be "Change" would it?
Asked about his illegal alien aunt in Boston he said; "If a court has ordered her deported then she has to go." "We have to obey the laws."
And as for whatever someone "goes through" to sneak into our country who cares?
If they wearn't trying to break the law they wouldn't be doing that, would they?
Even the bank robber or rapist wants to "contribute."
If things are so bad in their own countries then (they) need to change them, don't they? Or not, I couldn't care less about foreign countries.
I wish that people in foreign countries would stop trying to turn their problems into our problems and get to work solving their own countrie's problems.
It's not the job of U.S. Taxpayers to fix the world.
And it doesn't make any differance what someone's "skin color" is; being of Irish descent I'd arrest and deport the illegal Irish FIRST, just to set the example!
Obama is a lawyer and he knows that without the rule of law this country will cease to exist.
I didn't vote for Obama but I surely wish him all the best and I hope he turns out to be one of our best!
And as for Emma Lazzarus' poem, the statue of liberty is one of the first things that *immigrants* saw as they entered N.Y. harbor *legally*.
It's called "Lady Liberty" not lady immigration.
My grandmother who came from Donegal, Ireland *legally* told us stories of people who were turned back for illnesses, t.b. and the like and put back on ships returning to Europe. ("Donegal" in Irish means "Fort of the foreigners." The Vikings!)
Today we have misguided people in this country who want to let in people with aids and then have the taxpayers pick up $1m medical fees while 47m of our citizens go without healthcare.
And we're what, $9 Trillion in debt?
Oh, "$12 lettuce?"

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit - 11/7/2008 6:25:00 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
Popeye, do you ever write a post that doesn't include rants against 1) illegal immigration, and/or b) people with degrees?

thornhappy


Thorn, well, with Bush going out and Obama taking the reins and hopefully enforcing our laws I won't have to be anymore.
It's been a tough eight years for the good guys.
I wonder if Bush even heard about those illegal aliens in N.J. who killed those students "execution style" last year?

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Profile   Post #: 58
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