RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (Full Version)

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michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 5:30:12 AM)

if anyone has an issue with us having a black president, it would be them...maybe this is the prelude to another civil war. only time will tell




kittinSol -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 5:42:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia
maybe this is the prelude to another civil war. only time will tell


Yes, let's all passively wait for the shit to hit the fan.




barelynangel -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 5:54:45 AM)

I expect to see if the Man steps up to the plate and does his best to create and obtain what he stated in his platform without negative repercussions.  I am very skeptical about his tax on businesses of $200,000.  I have a feeling it really may backfire and harm the people Obama believes it is supposed to help by not raising their taxes - the workers.  But since he is now President-elect, i am waiting to see what happens.  He has on many levels just by being elected done part of it, people are now looking expectantly to the future waiting to see the change he has offered.  Positive hope instead of negative acceptance is always a good sign.  I expect to see a change in world opinion of the US.  He promised a lot, he promised hope, and change, those are hard promises he will have to work his ass off to achieve.  I expect to see him work his ass off to achieve what he promised to be elected.  I also expect to see (which never happens lol) if he does not and he fails at obtaining change (i am not saying everything fixed in 4 years but actual viewable and feelable change and seeing he is working his ass off to obtain his promises) he chooses not to run in 4 years with more empty promises.

angel




LadyEllen -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:01:39 AM)

Michael, I really wouldnt worry too much about that - these nutjobs disagree with one another just as much as they might with anyone else. The idea of them being able to mount anything more than a shoot out with the local police is fanciful in itself. The real danger from them is that of a single nutjob or a small group plotting terrorist attacks, or as has been discussed here, plotting an assassination. But even this is unlikely to succeed given that they will now be monitored as never before and picked up long before anything is likely to transpire.

As things are, most of them seem in any case to rather like the idea of Obama staying alive - he's far more useful so they feel to them in galvanising their position and recruiting new members and that only works out for them, if its to work at all, if he's alive and in office and there as a target for blame for the various angry disgruntled types who make their way to the far right wing - the curious thing being about that, that the anger and frustration that drives them is almost always nothing to do with race et al, but to do with their own failures - race merely provides a focus and a convenient scapegoat. These are really for the most part just angry people who feel that they deserve more and prefer to blame anyone but themselves.

E




celticlord2112 -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:01:53 AM)

quote:

Yes, let's all passively wait for the shit to hit the fan.

Considering how the alternative is armed insurrection (actually throwing the shit that hits the fan)....I'm ok with that.




kittinSol -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:04:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
I also expect to see (which never happens lol) if he does not and he fails at obtaining change (i am not saying everything fixed in 4 years but actual viewable and feelable change and seeing he is working his ass off to obtain his promises) he chooses not to run in 4 years with more empty promises.


So, you expect something which you know will never happen? That's some feat.




kittinSol -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:08:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Yes, let's all passively wait for the shit to hit the fan.

Considering how the alternative is armed insurrection (actually throwing the shit that hits the fan)....I'm ok with that.



The alternative would be prevention of conflict; but since it's obviously not something you are ready to consider, I would rather leave you to your belligerent hopes. It's difficult to fathom that people like you are getting ready (mentally, at least) for a 'civil war' simply because they don't like the choice of their fellow citizens for president of this country. Unbelievable [>:] .




nightphoenix -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:17:53 AM)

I expect that if he lives long enough to screw too much up, in four years you'll be the USSA. :p




nightphoenix -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:19:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I expect to see if the Man steps up to the plate and does his best to create and obtain what he stated in his platform without negative repercussions.  I am very skeptical about his tax on businesses of $200,000.  I have a feeling it really may backfire and harm the people Obama believes it is supposed to help by not raising their taxes - the workers.


Saw a blog post that sums up quite well what to expect with Obama's tax policies -

Bar Room Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

* The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
* The fifth would pay $1.
* The sixth would pay $3.
* The seventh would pay $7.
* The eighth would pay $12.
* The ninth would pay $18.
* The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are
all such good customers," he said, "I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.

But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:

* The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
* The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
* The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
* The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
* The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
* The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that’s right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That’s true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.




kittinSol -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:23:22 AM)

Bullshit destined to the feeble of mind: surely, you don't expect anybody on these fora to be stupid enough to swallow such simplistic propaganda, do you [8|]?




celticlord2112 -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:37:07 AM)

In what way is his analogy flawed, kittin?




LadyEllen -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:44:46 AM)

Well, for one thing CL, in the UK at least its very unlikely this notional group of guys would ever be found together in the same bar.

The wealthiest would be in a private club, the next few at the golf club bar, the middle few in the local pub and the last few would be at home having bought their beer for cheap at the local supermarket.

E




nightphoenix -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 6:48:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Well, for one thing CL, in the UK at least its very unlikely this notional group of guys would ever be found together in the same bar.


I'm not in the UK. ;)




rulemylife -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 7:09:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nightphoenix

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Well, for one thing CL, in the UK at least its very unlikely this notional group of guys would ever be found together in the same bar.


I'm not in the UK. ;)


You mean that's not one of your options for your stated intention of leaving the country to escape our new socialistic government? 




nightphoenix -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 7:13:05 AM)

And the relevance of this is...?




LadyEllen -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 7:20:25 AM)

You see though, the scenario you describe is an odd one. To imagine that this group of friends is going to fall out after the fall in bar prices when they had exactly the same grounds on which to fall out when the tale began is bizarre. All that has changed is the numbers - the principle remains the same whatever the split of the final bill.

It also fails to mention that those who paid less before and after were more likely to pay for the peanuts and other snacks that everyone enjoyed.

E





kittinSol -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 7:28:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nightphoenix

And the relevance of this is...?


Just that you said you were considering leaving the country because you were having a hissy fit over Obama's election, or something similar, perhaps?




rulemylife -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 7:29:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

In what way is his analogy flawed, kittin?



It is flawed because it assumes a lower percentage reduction on the wealthy guy in the analogy when that is not what happened with the Bush tax cuts.

This is from a NY Times analysis of Congressional Budget Office data:

"Families in the middle fifth of annual earnings, who had average incomes of $56,200 in 2004, saw their average effective tax rate edge down to 2.9 percent in 2004 from 5 percent in 2000. That translated to an average tax cut of $1,180 per household, but the tax rate actually increased slightly from 2003.
Tax cuts were much deeper, and affected far more money, for families in the highest income categories. Households in the top 1 percent of earnings, which had an average income of $1.25 million, saw their effective individual tax rates drop to 19.6 percent in 2004 from 24.2 percent in 2000 with the Bush tax cuts.







nightphoenix -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 7:30:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: nightphoenix

And the relevance of this is...?


Just that you said you were considering leaving the country because you were having a hissy fit over Obama's election, or something similar, perhaps?


And that is relevant to this thread how....?




nightphoenix -> RE: What do you most expect out of the next four years?? (11/10/2008 7:32:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylifeIt is flawed because it assumes a lower percentage reduction on the wealthy guy in the analogy when that is not what happened with the Bush tax cuts.


Or maybe it's an example with simplified math and wasn't intending on trying to mirror the Bush cuts. ;)  It still demonstrates the principle quite nicely.




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