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Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 10:43:12 AM   
softness


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Autonomy
–noun, plural -mies.
1.  independence or freedom, as of the will or one's actions: the autonomy of the individual.

Independence
–noun
1.Also, independency. the state or quality of being independent.
2. freedom from the control, influence, support, aid, or the like, of others.
3. Archaic. a competency.

Picture this scene.

Slave wakes in the morning, early, of her own volition. Leaves her own bed (away from her Master's)  washes and dresses in clothes of her own choosing. Goes to the kitchen and decides what to cook for breakfast. She fixes on bacon, eggs and biscuits and sets to making the biscuit mix. She puts on the radio and selects a station. As the biscuits are cooking and the coffee perking she pads quietly into her Master's room, and collects last nights dirty clothes. She returns to the kitchen takes the biscuits out to cool, puts the bacon on to cook, pours the coffee and returns to her Master's bedroom and deciding that he will be too tired for a blow-job after his late night, wakes him gently, tells him the time, leaves the coffee by the bedside and goes into the en-suite to turn on the shower. She goes to the kitchen sets out the breakfast things, remembering butter and honey for the biscuits because that will be a nice treat for him, and cleans away the cooking detritus. As her Master sits down with hair damp from the shower she pours him more coffee and places his food down in front of him. As he eats she makes his bed, cleans the bathroom and lays out his clothes for the day. As he re-enters the bedroom she leaves and clears away the breakfast plates. As he dresses she pours herself a coffee and sits going through his daily planner, calling and arranging his appointments, changing meetings around where necessary and checking he has all the notes he requires. She calls his office to let them know when to expect him. She checks his briefcase is packed, phone charge and wallet full, she sees he has no coin change and adds some from her purse. She packs up the lunch she made the night before and puts into inot his bag. He comes and sits with her while she outlines his commitments for the day, passing over his notes and checking he has directions to everywhere he is going. She walks him to his car, remembering to remind him he will need more gas, and shooing the neighbours cat out from under the back wheel. She waves him out the drive with a hand signal reminding him he agreed to call his mom on the way to work.

Autonomy and Independence.
These are different things, though the words are often used interchangingly.

How do you view the autonomy and independence show by the Master and slave in this scene?

< Message edited by softness -- 11/10/2008 10:46:46 AM >


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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 11:10:49 AM   
IvyMorgan


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Neither are independent, for the slave is reliant on control and influence, whilst the Master is reliant on aid.

Though the slave makes some semi-autonomous decision (what to cook for breakfast) those choices are based on the preference of the Master and so could not be described as completely so, if he did not like porridge, she would be unable (?) to choose to make it.

Presumably they both have free will to remain in or leave the relationship, and so both are autonomous in that respect.

I don't think the Master is autonomous in his actions.  I'm not 100% sure *why* I think that, just that I do.  I'll pin it down later, I guess.

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 11:53:50 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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I don't know if it is autonomous or independent, but you just described my 'vanilla' marriage.

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 12:02:19 PM   
NihilusZero


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Since we're speaking of an M/s relationship, it should be a fair presumption that the actions and chores the slave has gone through are either specific direct demands/expectations by the Master or choices that the Master has given permission to the slave to make with a degree of her own discretion and personal input (bacon rather than sausage, for example).

Heck, depending on the view within the relationship as to the slave being the Master's property, his 'reliance' on the service of his slave is as much a question of "autonomy" or "independence" as the fact that he relies on his vehicle to get him to work on time.

Every relationship is a conjoining of variant willing dependency to one degree or another.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 11/10/2008 12:03:17 PM >


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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 12:12:41 PM   
RCdc


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Seriously a nightmare of a scenario.
Dudette are ya trying to freak me out?
 
He is independant materialistically only.  She has the autonomy emotionally and physically.
 
the.dark.


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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 12:22:17 PM   
marie2


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Before I answer this I have to know whether she chewed his bacon for him.

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 12:34:59 PM   
softness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Seriously a nightmare of a scenario.
Dudette are ya trying to freak me out?
 
He is independant materialistically only.  She has the autonomy emotionally and physically.
 
the.dark.


 
are you kidding .. its a decent chunk of my idea of heaven!

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 12:46:42 PM   
monywildcat


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Softness, this scenario is absolutely lovely.  Gave me the warm and fuzzies on this dreary cold day.  I regret that I cannot do this on a regular basis, as Daddy isn't typically a breakfast eater and when he is over here he will wake up long enough to ready for work, grab a can of Mt. Dew, and scoot out the door.  But at least I am able to ensure that I have cans of Mt. Dew cold in the fridge, lay out work clothes, make sure the car has gas.  The only flaw I found in the scenario you outlined, is that the man didn't get a morning blow job.  What man would turn that down?

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 12:51:21 PM   
DesFIP


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Depends on pre-existing negotiations. If her outlined duties include having breakfast on the table, within the guidelines of the food he likes, then she's just following orders. If her outlined duties include being a personal assistant, then she's doing her job. But the handing him the lunch at reminding him to get gas shows that she needs to wake him earlier, so he can get more caffeine in the system before he's safe behind the wheel.

Like most things in life, it depends.

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 12:55:09 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
are you kidding .. its a decent chunk of my idea of heaven!


OK - in my best auntie gok voice - girlfriend we need to talk!
Nah, just teasing, but just for the sake of argument, this is my rendition to show why it so sucks for me.  Her is my ideal
 
Picture this scene.

Slave wakes in the morning, early, because it is what is expected of her. Leaves the arms of her Master from beside him in his bed, washes and dresses in clothes she knows he would desire. Goes to the kitchen and prepares breakfast from the understanding of what he enjoys. She fixes on bacon, scrambled eggs and biscuits and sets to making the biscuit mix. She puts on the radio from a pre selected station. As the biscuits are cooking and the coffee perking she pads quietly into her Master's room, and collects last nights dirty clothes. She returns to the kitchen takes the biscuits out to cool, puts the bacon on to cook, pours the coffee and returns to her Master's bedroom, coffee in hand and realising that he will be too tired for a blow-job after his late night, wakes him gently, tells him the time, leaves the coffee by the bedside and goes into the en-suite to turn on the shower. She goes to the kitchen sets out the breakfast things, remembering butter and honey for the biscuits because that will be a nice treat for him, and cleans away the cooking detritus. As her Master sits down with hair damp from the shower she pours him more coffee and places his food down in front of him. As he eats she makes his bed, cleans the bathroom. As he re-enters the bedroom she asks if there is anything he requires before she leaves and clears away the breakfast plates. As he dresses she drinks her coffee and sits going through his daily planner, checking he has all the notes he requires. She has no need to call his office as they are already well aware when he will be arriving. She packs up the lunch she also made fresh that morning and puts with his bag. He comes and sits with her while she finishes her coffee and he tells her how proud he is of her attentive care and that he loves her.  She walks him to his car and drives him through the rain to the station, already having filled his car with gas so he did not have to remember such trivia. She waves to him at the station and returns home to fulfil the day as is expected of her, sending him a text that he had instructed her to remind him to call his mother.

She is a very happy .girl.


the.dark.


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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 1:31:34 PM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
How do you view the autonomy and independence show by the Master and slave in this scene?

I like the scenario as it's very much like how a typical morning would be for us.  I am to serve and please Him and, by knowing Him so very well, I am able to be very autonomous and independent in doing so.  He is not one to micro-manage or spell out in excrutiating detail HOW I am to serve and please Him.  He expects that I know Him well enough and am intelligent enough, capable enough and attentive and imaginative enough to do so in various ways always leading to His fulfillment.

The parts about her reminding Him of things are very much like us.  He likes to and chooses to do many things for Himself.  He does like gentle reminders lots of times however.  It's very pleasing to Him for me to say, "Master, please don't forget that you were going to _________ today." 

I like your scenario, softness.  I think it reflects very closely how things work in this household.....................luci

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 2:12:27 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Softness, will you come and be my slave? 

Really, you've described *exactly* what I would want from a slave, knowing what I want and need and providing it without prompting or argument.  Yes, it's good to have a fantasy!

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 3:39:43 PM   
leadership527


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I guess I'm not really sure what place either of those two words has in a relationship.  What I do know is that my wife and are I tightly bound to each other with a web of love and trust that stretches back 15 years.  We are a team that approaches the world as a unit.  Is my left hand independent from my right?  At least in our relationship you can chase tails forever and endlessly debate chicken and egg problems to no end because things move back and forth between us so fluidly.  For instance...
  1. Carol must obey me, ergo, she's not independent.
  2. But wait, it was and remains her own choice to obey me so she is independent afterall
  3. But wait, it was me who wanted to enslave her to start with (back to my choice)
  4. But wait, it was her who first suggested a collar
  5. But wait, it was me who first ran into D/s

So when I command her to go make me breakfast, who's choice was it really?  The answer is, it was OUR choice and we are autonomous as a team.  Within that team, however, we choose to occupy two roles that are hugely interdependent and neither of us has complete autonomy as our actions are circumscribed by the relationship model we have adopted.

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 4:10:52 PM   
pinkwind


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quote:

initiative...

The power or ability to begin or to follow through energetically with a plan or task; enterprise and determination.

anticipation...

Foreknowledge, intuition, and presentiment.



i may be speaking out of turn here, but aren't initiative and anticipation also traits shown in large part in the OP?

These traits are held by some as essential to the smooth running of a household, and in our dynamic at least are valued, desired even.

Just a thought.

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 6:58:48 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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That's why it's not about power or control.  It's about authority.  90% of Ms relationships look just like vanilla 90% of the time.

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 7:44:29 PM   
hermione83


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Ew! That's so not what I think of as being a slave. :P That's more like she's choosing everything for him instead of the other way around... Not so much the vanilla aspect, I'm all about being a normal human being some of the time. I'm definitely not independent, and sadly, not even autonomous. Well, I am, but I do a very poor job of it. Not many "Masters" really want someone as dependent as me. My friend who's a therapist calls me DPD for short (dependent personality disorder). :P 

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/10/2008 7:49:29 PM   
roughleather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

Slave wakes in the morning, early, of her own volition. ...


You've just described a marriage of the 1950s.

Where's the kinky fun in that?

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/11/2008 7:45:16 AM   
chamberqueen


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Your description is very similar to my actual lifestyle.  I am given an incredible amount of freedom within my slavery.

For instance, the first time I was given the task of cleaning the home the way it was phrased was, "I need you to come and make things right".  I took that very personally, as if it couldn't be "right" without me.  I not only cleaned but did minor repairs.  He has been pleased with every action and I have been given the additional instruction to do anything I wish to make the home more comfortable.

This works very well in our relationship.  He does not enjoy micromanaging but prefers giving very broad instructions.  He likes me to use my intelligence and creativity in ways to please him.  He doesn't care what radio station I listen to; he does care that it makes the time seem to go by faster and I get more enjoyment while doing my tasks if I can sing along.  He never chooses my clothing yet appreciates it when I try to look special for him.  

There are times when he is very specific in what he wants and how he wants it, and I am happy to comply.  At the same time I love the freedom he has given me. 


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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/11/2008 7:50:56 AM   
MercTech


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It sounds to me like a thorough domestic partnership with the man as the senior partner.  A description of what could be a very workable relationship.

Stefan

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RE: Independence and Autonomy - 11/11/2008 9:52:53 AM   
antipode


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quote:

How do you view the autonomy and independence show by the Master and slave in this scene?


Urghh... where do you get the time to do comparative studies using the dictionary as a guideline.. G*d forbid you get a thesaurus for Christmas..

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