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McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/10/2008 8:52:41 PM

Termyn8or

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Mind you this is not mine. I am presenting it but it is the olman's opinion, not mine. However I am not ready to disagree completely or poo poo the idea. If it's true or not is something we might never know.

He said that the republicans absolutely knew that they could not win this election. After what they did to the country the democrats could have run a cat or dog and won. So they decided to run McCain, at 72 years old. I didn't know that. I figured he was in his sixties, but 72 ? Then he finds this broad in bumfuct Alaska which hurts his chances, and then the exact administration that people voted against endorses him, hurting his chances further.

He went on to say that it is so fucked up that any President will not be able to fix it, especially in one term and in 2012 the republicans might put forth a really viable candidate and get the big chair back, after blaming democrats for the problems which we are all sure will still exist.

In other words it was a plan. McCain never wanted to be President in the first place, he was too old and things are bad enough, who needs those problems ? He was in other words, a decoy.

Those may be my words, but not my idea. But I must admit that I am not taken aback by disbelief. He is almost 70 himself and has seen alot. He saw the newspapers that said "Dewey Wins". He is not stupid.

So is he getting senile or does he see something I cannot yet see. Like that all this election bullshit is just a show, that everything we supposedly hold dear in the way of ideals and all that is nothing but an illusion ?

I don't like to think so, but when we talked about this I was quite hard pressed to be able to find a cogent argument against it. What if McCain was meant to lose, and intended to lose. Well he certainly accomplished that, but the olman's supposition is that it was the plan all along.

He also added something along the lines of "Can you see McCain running for reelection when he is 76 ?" His term would be over when he is 80 !

In other words, I think the olman means that the republicans want someone else to clean up their mess and take the flack.

Like I said, not my idea, but I can't really argue against it.

How does that grab ya ?

T

Post #: 1

RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/10/2008 8:59:46 PM

Owner59

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Don`t you mean sacrificial lamb?

McCain won his primary.Nothing contrived there.

He blew it.Again,no conspiracy going on.

The republicans will have to reinvent themselves.Some want to go farther right/fundie and like Palin(I hope ,I hope,I hope) while others see a more moderate kind of republican,like McCain was when he won his nomination.

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/10/2008 9:12:13 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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Personally I do not doubt that the Repubs were well aware that they had slim to no chance of winning another term in the WH. And it wouldn't surprise Me to figure that the Party or Whoever is in charge of all these messes were well aware of it.
Hells Bells, McCain was so far down in the polls a year and half ago that he had no money and was flying commercial out of Sky Harbor Airport. Then all of a sudden he surges to the forefront and the other guys are dropping like flies?
In fact, it has been My thought, and I have discussed this with a few already, that McCain was offered a deal in 2000. The PTB wanted GWB and they promised him (McCain) the nomination in 2008
I also believe that both parties are controlled by the same PTB and they are the ones who really call the shots. The parties are really not much different anymore. They just take different roads to get to the same destructive destinations.
And I might mention that I am not a conspiracy theorist. I don't think there is any conspiracy going on. I think they are all laughing their asses off that we actually believe we have a democractic Republic. They have everybody in their pocket while the little guys (that would be us) are footing the bill as they garner more and more power.
There is an agenda and the people are falling into line.
That is why Ron Paul could make no headway. He doesn't play the game.
Think about this. How many people went to the polls on November 4th and truly believed that they only had 2 choices? (Okay... 4 choices in most states and a few approved write in names that would at least be actually counted.)
Just My take on it...

_____________________________

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 3

RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/10/2008 9:31:40 PM

TheHeretic

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Well, if we are airing the theories about the inside political deals and machinations, I not only think there was a deal in place between Bush and McCain, going all the way back to 2000, I also think Rudy Giuliani was told to let it go last winter.

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/10/2008 9:32:24 PM

subfever

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The PTB didn't give a rat's ass whether McCain or Obama won. This right vs. left paradigm is mostly theater... a stage show to keep the masses in line and make them think they have real voice in the political process.

Oh sure, the main political parties have their secondary agendas. You know them well, as they are typically emotionally-charged and tend to blind the masses from the truly big issues.

But neither of the two main political parties will do anything to threaten the status-quo of the true power structure.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 5

RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/10/2008 9:34:14 PM

Cagey18

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One big problem with your friend's theory: the idea that "they" decide (ie the Republican National Committee) who runs. "They" didn't decide to run McCain; the millions of Republican voters in multiple state primaries and caucuses did--over Romney (who would have been a better rival to Obama, but Republican voters thought he was a Scary Mormon), and over Huckabee (who was too Christian Right for many Republican voters)

And gee, for someone who was "meant" to lose, the RNC sure spent a ton of money on McCain that could have been better spent salvaging Senate and House seats that were lost to the Democrats. And not one Senate seat was gained by the GOP; hence the Democrats may well end up with a near filibuster-proof total of 59 seats instead of the bare-majority 51 seats they started with.

As for Palin, McCain didn't find her, his Karl Rove protege Steve Schmidt did--and forced the decision on him (McCain wanted Lieberman or Tom Ridge, but they weren't conservative enough). They were both convinced they could woo Hillary supporters away from Obama.

He saw the newspapers that said "Dewey Wins".

Actually it was only one newspaper (the Chicago Tribune), and only the early-morning edition. Other papers (and the later editions of the Tribune) had the correct headline.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/10/2008 9:48:51 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

The PTB didn't give a rat's ass whether McCain or Obama won. This right vs. left paradigm is mostly theater... a stage show to keep the masses in line and make them think they have real voice in the political process.

Oh sure, the main political parties have their secondary agendas. You know them well, as they are typically emotionally-charged and tend to blind the masses from the truly big issues.

But neither of the two main political parties will do anything to threaten the status-quo of the true power structure.

Bold emphasis Mine.
Absitively.
And that is why they are allowed to be the two main political parties.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 7

RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/10/2008 9:53:28 PM

BKSir

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A: goat, yes... not lamb. Lambs are young.

B: On to seriousness. Frankly, I think McCain threw the whole thing. It all changed the instant they picked Palin. McCain started to look senile, stupid, angry, unstable, flip-flopping more than usual and in far more obvious ways. I may not like McCain, or agree with his ideas, but the McCain I saw in the last few months is NOT the McCain that I know from living in AZ for 8 years. He is smart, eloquent, charismatic, cunning, clever, and despite my personal views, does do what he thinks is best for his country.

My theory, and it's just that, is that he saw the huge mistake they made with Palin, and wasn't willing to risk her becoming president, and did what he had to do, to protect and serve his country. Despite the last 3 months, McCain is no fool, and moreso, is no ONES fool. Just look at his concession speech. That is the McCain I know and, conflicts aside, respect. That is also the McCain that was NOT around for the last 3 months. If it had been, he probably would have won.

Admittedly, until his speech on election night, I too had pretty much decided that he had gone completely senile all of a sudden, or, was sticking with the thoughts I just posted. After that though, no, senility wasn't the case.

Again, just my two cents worth, who knows...

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/10/2008 10:20:09 PM

Thunderbird56

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As my buddy has been saying for a couple years, "There are no big government conspiracies anymore ... they just do what they want right in front of us and out in the open".
I used to think he had a point, now I *know* he's exactly right. Look at that bailout bill. Congressmen were getting anywhere from 300 to1 - 1000 to 1 faxes, phone calls and emails *against* the bailout bill ... and they voted FOR it anyway! Those people don't care what we think, they aren't concerned with our lives, they aren't afraid of us ... not in the least.
I don't know for certain that the PTB are the *same* for both the Democons and Republicrats, but it hardly matters ... they have a "dual monopoly" on political power.
Subfever is exactly right about this: "The PTB didn't give a rat's ass whether McCain or Obama won. This right vs. left paradigm is mostly theater... a stage show to keep the masses in line and make them think they have real voice in the political process." As long as it's *one* of the *two* them, they really don't care which side holds sway, because as long as it's *one* of them, the other knows they will still have some power and the chance for more power another day. If a "3rd" party became viable that could really upset their applecart.
The above is the reason I feel a strong, viable, legitiment 3rd party is vital to the health of our country. It wouldn't take all that much either. Just think of all the BS legislation that wouldn't stand a chance with just 35 - 40 congressmen and 6-8 senators ... Vote Libertarian.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 1:35:59 AM

tweedydaddy

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I think it;s a bit of a shame that Mcain was asking the US electorate for four years when his Doctor probably wouldn't give him six months.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 3:06:53 AM

corysub

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The fact that the beltway leadership of the republican party, deserted their conservative principles when they controlled the Congress have done everything wrong over the past several years spending money like drunken democrats is the reason why McCain/Palin did not convince as many Americans as Obama/Biden that issues and experience were more important than a call for "Change". All of these theories are great for campus discussion but in the real world the reason why Obama will occupy the Oval Office is "timing". If democrats really wanted to nominate a candidate that would have been a President with experience and who understood the issues of the day,Hillary Clinton would have been the nominee. It was the readiness of the public to grasp for a candidate offering hope and, don't forget the constant swooning of the TV media elite and newspapers over Obama and not vetting the man as every other candidate was disected also was a tremendous aid to the Obama campaign. Chris Matthews summed up what his agenda was after the election when he stated that he sees his job to insure that the Obama administration succeeds. Sarah Palin was verbally abused daily with idiotic and demeaning personal stories from the story that initially broke that her daughter was the mom of the baby, to a week of nonesense over her wardrobe, to her lifestyle and soccor mom image. Obama never had that kind of scrutiny and the stories about Wright, Rezko, Ayers and other of his poor judgement in friends did not see the light of day until after those early caucus wins and their airing on talk radio. Ubar ego Sen. Joe Biden stupidity and big mouth was grudingly reported basically ignored. Could you imagine the flap if Palin had said McCain would be tested in his first six months by some horror!

It does seem to be true that the republican party has favored geriatric candidates and I think this defeat signals the turn over of control to younger, more energized and idealistic republicans.

Conspiracy theory is a great game for intellectuals, college professors, and great stories between commercials for TV. I try to remember that we do live in the real world and there is a "real reason" or proof, why things happen..not a theory.

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 3:29:22 AM

housesub4you

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LMAO

I think McCain blew the election long before his VP pick.

He won the primary and sat on his ass, basically did nothing waiting for the Dems to pick someone. The time he wasted waiting he should have been out speaking about the "change" he was going to bring.

(in reply to tweedydaddy)

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 3:50:59 AM

Musicmystery

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McCain likes to shoot from the hip and ignored his advisors. The silly campaign suspension was a spur of the moment decision. So was Palin.

After years of playing the Maverick, trouncing the Republican organization at times, suddenly he needed their help and support---and gee, oddly enough, didn't get much.

This was of his own making, and I agree with those who've noted he's probably happier as a Senator anyway.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/11/2008 3:51:29 AM >

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 4:54:49 AM

Dnomyar

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I agree with music.

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 4:58:48 AM

TNstepsout

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I don't think it was a plan, but I do agree that the Republicans had little chance to win this year. It seems to swing back and forth from one party to the other as people get upset and begin to think the other party can do a better job. Was it a plan when the Democrats ran Kerry? Did they think a Dem had any chance to win against an incumbent? Or was he the sacrificial goat so Hillary could run in 2008? See what I mean? There are just some races that are harder to win due to circumstances but I don't think anyone is being sacrificed. It's just trying a long shot.

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 5:09:01 AM

HalfShyHalfWild

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I don't agree with him. The Supreme Court alone was enough to make either side give it their all in winning this election.

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 5:21:44 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy

I think it;s a bit of a shame that Mcain was asking the US electorate for four years when his Doctor probably wouldn't give him six months.

I think it's a shame that when a guy hits 72, people think he is going keel over in the next 4 years.

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 5:22:59 AM

michaelOfGeorgia

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quote:

McCain a sacrificial goat ?

woulnd't that be sacrificial lamb?

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 5:37:01 AM

TNstepsout

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

quote:

McCain a sacrificial goat ?

woulnd't that be sacrificial lamb?

Don't people sacrifice goats too?

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RE: McCain a sacrificial goat ? - 11/11/2008 6:02:24 AM

DedicatedDom40

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I think it's a shame that when a guy hits 72, people think he is going keel over in the next 4 years.

Simply being 72 wasnt the concern. The concern was over who would inherit the spot. Had he ran with anoybody less "quayle", his age or health would not have been an issue.

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Post #: 20

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