RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (Full Version)

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bamabbwsub -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:14:43 PM)

quote:

It wasn't put here for debate. Simply to state the fact that military assault rifles were not created to hunt Bambi. Unless the deer are shooting back.

Impress me with a 12 point rack that was shot with an arrow, or your grandfathers single shot rifle. Personally, I don't see the need for hunters to use something that was intended for warfare.

quote:

Actually, I am equally accurate with a bow and arrow or a single shot. I'm not sure what your logic is exactly. I must tell you that your ignorance of hunting and appropriate weaponry is...well....glaring.


erin, I think what she's trying to say (and hopefully she doesn't mind if I try to interpret for her) is that using those automatic and semi-automatic weapons -- that were originally invented for warfare -- are a bit of overkill (no pun intended...really!) for hunting deer. To me, it's the equivalent of shooting deer from your pick-up truck, using a salt lick, etc. -- both of which have been banned, if I'm not mistaken. For many people who hunt (I work with a bunch of them), the thrill of the hunt is as gratifying as the kill itself. It's truly man vs. nature, on a more even keel. I hope that makes sense.




scarlethiney -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:15:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Ok, I understand the right to own a weapon....someone please tell me why people need to own assault weapons?


Oh good Gawd. Why is it that every single gun thread.....no matter what is being discussed.....ends up boiling down to this. Seriously SilverMark, I mean you no disrespect but you will find many different answers to that question....but to be perfectly honest....I've never seen any answer to it matter one whit to someone who already has their mind set about assault weapons. Personally, I regularly hunt with mine...it's a damned accurate gun.


You hunt with an assault weapon?????? What in the world are  you hunting??
I'm going to apologize now mistoferin in case I offend you it's not my intention. If your so interested in hunting why not just use a bow? What skill does it take to point an automatic weapon at an animal and pull the trigger? 
Sorry I don't get it. I agree with SilverMark why would anyone need an assault weapon?

scarlet




Joenextdoor -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:18:20 PM)

I haven't bought a new $200 gun in 20 years.  You also are way off on the tax amount.  A decent handgun now will run you $500-600 and a 500% tax on that gun will make it now cost $3,000 and up.
A ban on handguns is politically impractical when liberals do not hold all the power.  Once they get the power, it suddenly becomes very practical, hence Clinton's 1994 ban, in which the Dems held power.  You have not seen any bans since, bacuse the Dems have not held full power, until now.
The fact that he favors a ban on the use of a handgun for self defense in your own home, says all I need to know about him.  Sad.




Joenextdoor -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:19:53 PM)

If he says cities or states have the right to ban guns, then he stands directly opposite to the Constitution on that one.  I guess he better have someone explain that one to him.




Cagey18 -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:25:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterVirago

I will grant you this, the ammunition tax would apparently triple the price of ammunition. I'm sure people would be more selective about who they shoot. No more inocent bystanders.


The ammunition tax you speak of was a paraphrase (not a quote) of remarks Obama made once as a Illinois State Senator, 9 years ago.  The NRA has seized on it as gospel.

That's it.  Nothing since on that topic.  Obama has made no move as a U.S. Senator to increase the federal tax on ammunition, and it's nowhere on his current agenda or policy on gun control.

Although I do kinda like comedian Chris Rock's proposal of $5000 a bullet..."When I can afford it, I'm gonna come back and POP your ass!" [:D]




Cagey18 -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:28:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Considering that Factcheck.org is just about the most impartial independent source of info on the Web, this is particularly funny [:D].

La la la la I can't hear you...don't interfere with my preconceived notions...la la la la... [8D]






HunterS -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:30:13 PM)

quote:

Clinton's 1994 ban, in which the Dems held power.


This would be the "Brady Bill"  pushed through congress by Sarah and Jim Brady...both of whom are very active republicrats.  To characterize this as a demopub bill is to be less than accurate.
 
H.




Joenextdoor -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:34:33 PM)

I really dont care what party they claim to belong to....neither of them were in Congress or the White House, and actually, I was talking about the assault weapons ban.  It passed under total Democratic control, and sunsetted under total Republican control in 2004. 




kittinSol -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:39:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Considering that Factcheck.org is just about the most impartial independent source of info on the Web, this is particularly funny [:D].

La la la la I can't hear you...don't interfere with my preconceived notions...la la la la... [8D]



[sm=lalala.gif]




lusciouslips19 -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:49:18 PM)

Most people who have guns lawfully use them for target shooting not hunting.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:50:05 PM)

quote:

Sorry I don't get it. I agree with SilverMark why would anyone need an assault weapon?

Do you even know the difference between an "assault weapon" and an ordinary rifle?




HunterS -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:50:29 PM)

quote:

Simply to state the fact that military assault rifles were not created to hunt Bambi.   


The problem here is terminology.  The term "assault rifle" is a misnomer.  I spent a fair amount of time in the military and never once heard my weapon referred to as an "assault rifle"
Civilians are not allowed to own an automatic weapon without very specific conditions being met.  No one hunts deer or elephant or any other sport game with an automatic weapon.
There are two basic types of rifles,auto loaders and manual loaders.  Manual loaders are of the bolt action or lever action type.  Auto loaders simply fire each time you pull the trigger.
The difference between a Remington 750 and an civilian AR 16 is totally cosmetic.
The both do the same thing...shoot one bullet each time you pull the trigger.  Many people buy surplus military weapons because they are cheaper.  A Remington 750 will cost you about $800 for a "plane Jane".  More frills will cost more money.  By more frills I mean custom engraving on the metal,custom checkering on the stock,tricked out sights or telescopic sights etc.  In contrast a surplus AK 47 can be had for less than $200.  However some states have labeled surplus military weapons as "assault weapons" and have banned them for having a bayonet lug or a pistol grip or a magazine capacity of more than x number of rounds.
The term "assault rifle" is just a "scare" word to get the uninformed to vote to ban them.
 
H.




mistoferin -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 7:56:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bamabbwsub
erin, I think what she's trying to say (and hopefully she doesn't mind if I try to interpret for her) is that using those automatic and semi-automatic weapons -- that were originally invented for warfare -- are a bit of overkill (no pun intended...really!) for hunting deer. To me, it's the equivalent of shooting deer from your pick-up truck, using a salt lick, etc. -- both of which have been banned, if I'm not mistaken. For many people who hunt (I work with a bunch of them), the thrill of the hunt is as gratifying as the kill itself. It's truly man vs. nature, on a more even keel. I hope that makes sense.


quote:

scarlethiney
You hunt with an assault weapon?????? What in the world are  you hunting??
I'm going to apologize now mistoferin in case I offend you it's not my intention. If your so interested in hunting why not just use a bow? What skill does it take to point an automatic weapon at an animal and pull the trigger? 
Sorry I don't get it. I agree with SilverMark why would anyone need an assault weapon?
scarlet 



I will take both of these at once. It is obvious that your reactions are to the word "assault" weapon without having any real understanding of what that means. ONE of the guns that I use for hunting is an SKS, which is basically the same gun as an AK-47 (Wooooooo). It is commonly referred to by those with little understanding of guns as an assault weapon. It fires one round at a time. I have not ever needed to shoot a second round while hunting yet...but that is most likely because I don't take a shot unless I'm sure it's a kill shot. The appropriate caliber round for that weapon is a 7.62x39mm cartridge. That is approx. equivalent to a 30-30.....or in other words....your grandfather's single shot. Certainly not "overkill" for an animal that ranges from 200 to 300 lbs. It is a very accurate, flat shooting gun.

I also have a 30-30 which I use for hunting. My 30-30 is worth about a grand and the ammo is pricey. It's a beautiful gun and I worry about it's appearance and condition as it is something I would like to pass on to one of my boys one day. My SKS on the other hand, cost me about 150 bucks. It's not a pretty gun and I really don't worry about scratching it in the woods or being out with it in the rain and snow. I can also purchase a thousand rounds of ammo for it for about 30 bucks. Do you see why one may be the weapon of choice on certain days?

Now....to clarify something else. I am an AVID hunter who takes my hunting VERY seriously. I'm not out there hunting horns....I'm hunting food. I'm hunting food because I feel that it's my responsibility to help control the population of the animals. I do my part year round, in freezing weather, in 3 feet of snow, in blazing summer heat....to take care of the deer. Hunting is also a necessary part of that process. I'm hunting food because I think that it is unbelievably hypocritcal to be against hunting and also be a carnivore who simply pays the "hitman" at the grocery store to take care of all of the dirty work so I don't have to get blood on my hands and feel guilty for eating my steak. I appreciate every bite of meat that goes into my mouth because I FULLY understand what it takes to get it there. I use every single part of that animal that I can including the hides, which I tan myself with the animal's brain and the tallow that I render. What I can't use I cart back into the woods so that other animals can survive from the nourishment the carcass will provide.

Trust me, I take this very seriously. It's has nothing to do with the "thrill of the hunt" for me. It is an absolutely necessary and spiritual process in my world. I take great offense at anyone who suggests it is anything less or that I approach it with anything less than the utmost of integrity and the knowledge and experience of the most effective and humane method.

So please, if you don't have a good understanding of this particular subject...please don't be so fast to criticize and call foul.




mistoferin -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 8:15:30 PM)

And speaking of hunting season....it's in full swing across much of the US right now. I'm sure it doesn't account for all of the increase in gun sales, but I'd have to think it at least accounts for part of it.




TheHeretic -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 8:19:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Okay ,just for shits and giggles give me one example of a private citizens "need" for an assault rifle....



         Previously asked and answered, Mike.  I believe we were specifically discussing the Uzi on that vanished thread.  As I recall though, I gave you a solid example of a very legitimate civilian use of such a weapon, and a more fun-loving bit of imagery.  As I further recall, you pretended the first part of my answer didn't even exist, and got snarky about the tongue-in-cheek.

       Guns are tools that make things dead, and the "need" is that the Constitution says they are necessary to the security of a free state. 




servantheart -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 8:19:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A question though, why does a person need to buy a gun ?



I kept one as a young single mother when my oldest was only a few years old.  I felt the need for it because if some crackhead/other violent whackjob decided to kick my door down in the middle of the night, my daughter's survival was fully dependent on my ability to protect her, and though I don't relish the thought of taking any life, I promise you I will gladly blow into oblivion anyone foolish enough to threaten my life or the lives of my UMs.
 
 




Cagey18 -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 8:21:47 PM)

mistoferin:

Years ago I knew a hunter who boiled his venison to get rid of the gamey taste (apparently most of that taste is contained in the fat, which he skimmed off).

Do you use that approach?  Is it common?





AlwaysLisa -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 8:34:38 PM)

I just love the internet.

I have been hunting. I have shot deer, feather and vermin for sport and meat.  I have cleaned guns since before I could drive and would match marksmanship with anyone on a clayshoot.   So please step down from your high horse.   Not everyone here is as ignorant as you seem to believe.

Sarcasm is a form of wit.  My words are often laced with sarcasm, though I realize it can be lost on those less capable of grasping the concept, but regardless....to your point.

This thread caught my attention when people began spouting about how they had to have military issued firepower to bring down a deer.   That was my entire interest....because frankly I believe everyone should have a way to protect themselves, so banning guns was never my issue.  

I applaud your knowledge of weapons and hunting, but that could be just as easily gleaned from a copy of Outdoor News.   It still doesn't change the fact we don't require a Howitzer to till the garden, nor should we need extreme range or power to kill a deer.  Think about it.   Deer haven't evolved over the years into some form of mutant creature, cabable of eluding bullets.    That animal you have in your freezer has relatives in it's gene pool that were brought down by a single musket ball.  







mistoferin -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 8:37:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

mistoferin:

Years ago I knew a hunter who boiled his venison to get rid of the gamey taste (apparently most of that taste is contained in the fat, which he skimmed off).

Do you use that approach?  Is it common?


Cagey18,
I have heard of that method but I don't personally use it. I believe that would boil away a lot of the flavor and also the nutrient value. I don't believe it is a common method.
Gamey flavor comes mostly from the diet of the animal. You will find that a deer that lives in an area where there is a lot of swampland where that animal is living on bark and acorns and such will be much "gamier" than a deer that is harvested in an area that is mostly farmland planted with rich crops. It does seem to be stronger in the fatty areas of the animal....but venison is relatively low in fat. I process my own deer and I do not leave any fat or silverskin on the meat.
Some of that taste may also be coming from other causes such as age of the deer, the processing method of the deer, how long it was left to hang. Even the length of time between the shot and death contributes. I find that I don't get much gaminess in the deer that I harvest and actually, I have on many, many occassions served people venison and they never had any idea.
Anyway, apologies to the OP for the hi-jack.




mistoferin -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/11/2008 8:45:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa
It still doesn't change the fact we don't require a Howitzer to till the garden, nor should we need extreme range or power to kill a deer. 


Apparently you missed my point. As I explained, the overkill military assault weapon that I use is not extreme in range or power and is on par with the very weapon that you suggested would "impress" you more....your grandfather's single shot. Hardly a Howitzer. I'm not some out of control psycho running through the woods playing Rambo as some of you would seem to be suggesting. I'm suggesting that it is more a case of some not understanding and overestimating what the term "assault" means.




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