RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s.

RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (Full Version)

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LadiesBladewing -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 7:22:09 AM)
I just wanted to let you know that I appreciated your contributions, and that you expressed your thoughts very well, at least, as I read them. Thank you for being a part of this conversation. Lady Zephyr quote: ORIGINAL: RiotGirl Which i suppose this thread is also about. Those that quit when they arent having fun. Eh, Ladie, i hope i have explained myself well and thanks for the thread!!!!!!!!!! (well thanks for letting me know its here) Its given me alot to think about, amaze at, and things to appreciate when it comes to this road we all take for different reasons.

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 7:44:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshine333 one thought i have on this (and i may have more later) is that we don't see a lot of slavery success stories. the more common succusses we see are people graduating from college, martial artists achieving black belts, performers gaining wealth and recognition, athletes winning olympic medals ... etc. people will be more likely to embark on tedious, rough, highly structured and disciplined trainings if they are relatively certain the payoff will be worth their effort. humbly, sunshine Thank you for your thoughts, sunshine333. I think that the reason that we don't see "success stories" is because success in servitude means different things to different people, so when we see stories of people's response to their service, we may not think about the measure of success that it shows that they are asking questions and living in this life. Good service is rarely visible, and rarely accumulates huge accolades, even from the individual being served. In fact, the best service is often -invisible-, -quiet-... transparent and unassuming. The satisfaction in service is most often internalized within the servant in success-stories like this -- the incredible joy of knowing that xhe did hir absolute best, and that what xhe has given is as close to perfection as xhe was able to create. Yes, there is a satisfaction that comes from passing the "white glove" tests, and in carrying oneself well. There is satisfaction in getting the pat on the head from Mistress, or the "good job" from the First Girl. The greatest satisfaction in service, though, no matter whether it is the service of a servant for one's owner, or the service of a minister for hir congregation, or the service of a buddhist monk for the poor of hir village isn't the accolades of a cheering public, a plaque, a statue -- it is the simple satisfaction of knowing that one is living one's calling, and doing so with grace. Until we can find that grace, whether we find it in teaching, in working on Wall Street, or on serving the poor, we will never be satisfied with our achievements and will struggle to find external motivation and external validation for our continued work, which will be an endless circle of questioning our own value and hoping that someone out there will value us because we are unable to do so. Lady Zephyr

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 7:49:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MTslave I can submit to my non lisfesyle husband and it's a fun time in bed, but when I submit to my Master it's done in a completely different mind frame. One that I'm not sure can be completely or accurately simulated with someone else. Respectfully Master T's slave Thank you so much for your thoughts. Lady Zephyr

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 7:52:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fyreredsub i still fight my belly and it is the ultimate trust in another and the giving up control that causes me to do this.no matter how badly my belly may desire i feel like i will be losing myself and that is hard after all i have fought to gain in my life. Change is difficult for all of us. One thought that might help you in this process is that if your belly calls you to service, then you can -never- lose yourself by yielding to that which makes you more expressive as you... so if service is your calling, no matter how deeply you yield, you can never lose yourself, because in yielding, you are becoming more yourself than you ever were. Lady Zephyr

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 8:00:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sensualips However, I am not a big fan of suffering. If I am REALLY suffering and it is not a situation with a short term goal I am looking towards or some resolution on the horizon, I am going to make different choices. I do not feel that because I agreed to something, I am obligated to continue with it indefinitely. I also know that I have to take responsibility for my choices and how they effect others. I am also not a big fan of suffering, however, what I have learned is that -suffering- is a state of mind... it is the process of dwelling on the unpleasant until the "taste" of it colors everything around us, and all we can see is the misery of our situation. Suffering often comes when I set up expectations of how I think a situation will be, and then find myself disappointed when the things that I imagined would be part of what I am experiencing are not there. These days, I have learned to simply cherish a situation for what it is, and accept any lessons that are part of it. I -try- to set myself up for success, rather than setting myself up for disappointment by letting things be what they are. If I am not growing in a situation, and it is apparent that, if the situation continues, I will continue to fail to progress in my understanding of myself and my place in the Universe, I am likely to let go of that thing. At the same time, I rarely "suffer" over situations, even unpalatable ones, and I think that may be because I don't dwell on the unpleasantness, but strive to find some transcendence in myself that allows me to still find at -least- awareness in the situation. Lady Zephyr

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 8:09:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wolfie648 Re: Quitting. D/s Dominant/submissive - submissive has the power - the power to say no the power to say not today - not ever - not so hard - power to stop the scene - etc. Owner/slave Owner has the power. Quitting for the 'sub' 'slave' is not an option. Fun is at the owner's discretion. It's about recognising what you want (if anything), what you are willing to settle for (if anything), and who you need to be (if anything). D (owner of j) Thank you so much for your thoughts. It may not be so cut-and-dried as all coming down to simple word-choices and semantics in some places. As an example, what about a place like ours... We do not have "submissives" -or- "slaves". We have "servants", and have a certain expectation of those servants, but do not fall into textbook descriptions of D/s, M/s, T/b, etc... In other cases, perhaps the term 'slave' doesn't hold the connotations that you hold for it, nor might "submissive" mean what it means to you and yours. You are right in that it is about recognizing what you want, but it is also about honoring commitments made, and about striving for something that requires reaching beyond the mundane and ordinary -- about requiring the extraordinary of ourselves in order to exercise our "self" and keep it resilient and strong. Lady Zephyr

fyreredsub -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 4:17:58 PM)
Thank you Lady Zephyr for taking the time to point that out to me. i am working on reconciliating my brain and belly to coincide w/ each other now through my training. quote: ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing quote: ORIGINAL: fyreredsub i still fight my belly and it is the ultimate trust in another and the giving up control that causes me to do this.no matter how badly my belly may desire i feel like i will be losing myself and that is hard after all i have fought to gain in my life. Change is difficult for all of us. One thought that might help you in this process is that if your belly calls you to service, then you can -never- lose yourself by yielding to that which makes you more expressive as you... so if service is your calling, no matter how deeply you yield, you can never lose yourself, because in yielding, you are becoming more yourself than you ever were. Lady Zephyr

MsIncognito -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 5:23:54 PM)
While I agree with you that there does seem to be a (IMO, false) expectation that everything has to be fun and happy (and I'd add to that most people feel they are entitled to that without exception or effort on their part) what also confounds me is the generally held belief that the path to being exceptional is through adversity of some sort. In a recent thread about struggling it was stated that if a submissive isn't stuggling then they are not growing and/or improving themselves. Society in general loves the concept of the underdog that overcomes all odds. We seem to love the idea so much that we can't get enough of books and movies that recycle this oh-so-common theme. IMO, adversity and struggle are merely one path to achievement, betterment and maybe even enlightenment. It is by no means the only path and in some ways I think it may be the easy path in that the person does not make a conscious choice, they merely react to the adversity that has reared its ugly head in their lives. There are people out there who have the self awareness and wherewithal to direct their own personal growth through means other than adversity. These people are seekers - they seek to better not only themselves but the world around them. They don't wait for adversity to come knocking or be imposed by outside forces. To others it may appear that these people live charmed lives but in reality they willingly do the mindful work necessary to achieve extraordinary result on many levels (emotional, psychological, professional, spiritual, etc). It's not the awe-inspiring story of people who "overcome all odds" that Hollywood churns out but I believe this quiet, mindful work is just as worthy even if not nearly as exciting.

caitlyn -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 5:42:54 PM)
I would suppose that like many thing, this comes down to why we got into something, and what we expect to get out of it. I fall squarely in the camp of people that do this for fun, and if it wasn't fun, I would stop doing it. This doesn't mean I belong to a society that is only interested in fun, or isn't willing to put work into something, or is only looking for self-gratification. All it really means is that I got into this for a reason, and none of those reasons involve something being not fun, or excessive work, or suffering. Now, there are other things in my life where I'm more than willing to put my nose to the grindstone and apply the values of hard work and commitment. School is a good example, maintaining good physical coondition is another. I would also imagine that as I get older, these priorities will change. It might be in my future to put the sort of effort you describe, into a relationship. I have no real comment on happiness, other than to say that I really don't think that there is any happiness in this world, and that you just need to learn to be happy without it. Thank you very much for the original post. [:D]

veronicaofML -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/25/2005 7:00:52 PM)
happiness is a concept changes from person to person fun is too committment? depends on what the issue is; this is too broad of a question d/s? changes person to person mine is not like some one else's...vice versa ask me a zeroed on mark accurate q and i will give an exact cross hair answer

Mercnbeth -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/27/2005 10:03:10 AM)
quote: I'd like to hear what other people think about this, as compared with the whole idea that we create our own happiness, nobody -makes- us happy, and that what we should be seeking in a D/s relationship (or any relationship) might be something -other- than happiness... like satisfaction or fulfillment of self or growth... in order to be able to get the most out of activities required by one's Owner/Teacher/Master that are not enjoyable, and are not fun, and are not liked, and are not pleasant. Lady Zephyr, thank you for opening up this topic, this slave has given a lot of thought to it and would like to add her thoughts: this slave consciously entered into a relationship based on M/s principles through a combination of active seeking & stumbling, plenty of intellectual, often clinical research and 3 years of introspection and self-imposed "single" status. More than any other single qualifier was this slave's own personal FAITH and spiritual belief system. in other words, this slave prayed, "consulted the oracle" and believed when all HUMAN reason wouldn't have. this slave went out on a MAJOR limb but more than anything else, trusted in this slave's path, instinct and the things that were revealed to this slave through spiritual means WAY more than any advice from friends, family, co-workers or counselors. this slave did not actively participate in forums such as this in the beginning--just observed. maybe it's a habit of being "the baby of the family", but this slave started using observation as an educational tool before she can remember and it has been extremely helpful. happiness, pleasure, contentment, joy, fulfillment, satisfaction are all great concepts that can describe our here-and-now presence, which is, ultimately, all we "have". our futures are consistently "unknown". it matters little how well we plan as so little is beyond our control. we never know what the day will bring us. our pasts are done, over with, nothing but memories and whatever physical souvenirs we have kept in our personal knapsacks......for some, those memories of traumas that have left scars are subconsciously in "control" by interfering with our ability to be fully present and experience our here-and-now with as much happiness or pleasure or joy that we deserve to get from it. this slave made a commitment to her "self" and to the path she has chosen in this physical existence when she made the commitment to be Master's slave. there is a leap of faith required to fully and completely place your life in another's hands without reservation or regret. to leave behind once and for all "vanilla" life and the majority of society that ascribes to it. one couldn't possibly "prove" that another would be worthy of such a thing on either side of the slash--there are NO guarantees. this slave does not believe happiness, contentment or fun can adequately express this slave's experience....more like bliss, euphoria and peace. this slave did not seek to be made happy, sexually fulfilled, be trained nor even particularly owned, (all that came as a suprise!)...this slave sought to fulfill her purpose. However..this slave's path has been one of service since she can remember. this slave was raised in an isolated environment where being of service was the main focus. it has never been all about this slave and getting what she wants when she wants it, but her role in serving the wants and needs of others has been groomed since infancy and an inescapable foundation throughout every relationship she has ever had and will have--vanilla, random, circumstantial,personal, professional, etc. the notion that this slave is here to BE SERVED by anyone has always seemed preposterous and this slave can't imagine it ever being a comfortable idea. this slave is well aware that line of thinking is sure to stir up comments about "natural" or "born" slave and "doormat" or "co-dependent". this slave is also well aware that bringing up the spiritual component to THIS life or to life in general stokes the coals as well, but so what, let the flames begin, it wouldn't be the first time or the last. quote: I think we've set up this expectation in our culture that everything has to be fun and happy to be good. Many people are not willing to struggle or suffer to achieve, and yet they still want the depth and status that comes from having done the extraordinary, and had that shape -them- into something extraordinary. well said!

Sunshine119 -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/27/2005 6:25:04 PM)
How can we know that we are experiencing happiness without having experienced its opposite? How can we understand gratification if we are never forced to wait? How can we know peace within ourselves without having forced ourselves through the wars of self-doubt? How can we be good people (regarldless of our orientation) without FEELING what it is like to be bad? Being submissive to me means, at times, fighting those parts of me that are dominant. Taking orders sometimes involves me swallowing my pride (and learning consequently how prideful I am). Recognizing that I have suceeded means that I also have been through the pits of failure. Is BDSM about happiness? No, it is about growing, learning, becoming. It is a process. And the process brings happiness.

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/28/2005 11:59:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth However..this slave's path has been one of service since she can remember. this slave was raised in an isolated environment where being of service was the main focus. it has never been all about this slave and getting what she wants when she wants it, but her role in serving the wants and needs of others has been groomed since infancy and an inescapable foundation throughout every relationship she has ever had and will have--vanilla, random, circumstantial,personal, professional, etc. the notion that this slave is here to BE SERVED by anyone has always seemed preposterous and this slave can't imagine it ever being a comfortable idea. this slave is well aware that line of thinking is sure to stir up comments about "natural" or "born" slave and "doormat" or "co-dependent". this slave is also well aware that bringing up the spiritual component to THIS life or to life in general stokes the coals as well, but so what, let the flames begin, it wouldn't be the first time or the last. beth, This brought me to thinking about something that may stray off the topic that I started here, but perhaps a tangent isn't a horrible thing, eh? This brought me to thinking about living a service-oriented life, and what that means to a dominant individual. I've thought about this before, because my spiritual path groomed me for the position I am in now, as a regional leader, but it did so in a manner similar to "old school" leather training in the BDSM lifestyle, where one yields -everything- first... and then, in the Teacher's hands, one learns how to pick up those things yielded and use them for the good of the greater community. This is the way that I feel about my domination in our Household... It isn't just about getting what I want, though getting what I want and having things be the way that I've envisioned them is important... for me, it is more about serving those who come to serve US by teaching them what it can be like to be exceptional in their service, and what it can feel like to be completely fulfilled in service... to give them the challenges to become exceptionally what they are. This process changes people. There's no way to go through this kind of examination of self and Universe without being re-shaped. Some of those who train with us won't remain as servants. At some point, they may find that they, too, are more suited to teaching and guiding, and they will become trainers, majordomo, chatelaine, etc... but what is most important is that they will -be-, completely what they are, cherishing everything about themselves and holding no resentment or regret for living a satisfying life as what they -are-. Anyway, just a few thoughts on the fact that duty, service, and joy don't have to be mutually exclusive and don't have to be put aside to dominate effectively. Lady Zephyr

watchersgirl -> RE: Happiness, fun, commitment and D/s. (12/28/2005 9:15:52 PM)
Well, I'll venture to say that, IMNSHO, there isn't one right way to do D/S. I can imagine another person finding fulfillment in detailed and strict training and service; however, that person isn't me. OTOH, as a sub, I'm not looking for a relationship that's all about me and my pleasure. I'm not looking for easy. As I've remarked elsewhere, I'm very assertive in most situations and somewhat of a control freak; it's hard work for me just to let go of control--for instance by being forbidden to speak for a period of time. It's also hard work for me to humble and abase myself; I have a rebellious streak that wants to fight back. But when my domme (I'm talking about the past, alas; I'm domme-less now) is consistent in insisting on the behavior she expects from me, including administering punishment (from writing an essay to a beating that isn't fun), and I can let go and surrender myself to her desires, then I feel at peace in a way I've found nowhere else. So in my case, submission isn't all fun and games; it's hard work, and it's not supposed to be easy b/c I'm showing my domme my willingness to do something hard for me for her service and/or pleasure. At the same time, I've never had a domme who believed that a "real sub" can only prove her submission by doing things she doesn't like (an opinion I've often read on ssbb). My dommes have always cared about my pleasure--secondary to their own. What I've had a hard time learning (and still do) is that I have no control over when I might experience a particular type of pleasure or what type of pleasure she will choose to grant me. My domme I remember the most fondly certainly wanted to see me suffer for her--not just suffer as in enjoyable masochistic pain, but other ways she chose. But it was always temporary; she loved me, and she wanted me to be happy. It was agreed that we were going on a journey together, and it could be hard for both of us, and it could be the most rewarding thing possible for both of us. And she was definitely in charge. She enjoyed seeing me fulfilled and spiritually stretched by doing something hard for me that wasn't something I enjoyed (although everything I did for her became enjoyable in a peaceful glowy way, if not a fun way), and she enjoyed seeing me happy and pleasured and out of control because of what she did to me. And sometimes it was just ridiculous and easy and funny. I can't imagine a relationship without a sense of humor.

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