RE: Artists (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 10:38:21 PM)

I did a page for one Norman Walrath, who is a sculptor. Later we got into an argument and I haven't seen him for a while but he wrote a little something for the page :

"As regards "A Matter Of Spirit", I think that this title closely
approximates the philosophy of all my work. That being that when one
sculpts one is trying to make matter into a representation of Spirit,
as an individualized work, through one's effort of Will directed by
one's Intellect. The value of a piece is to what degree that piece is able
to 'feel alive' to the viewer. In the hope that I have somewhat
achieved this, I bring my work to you; the Viewer. "

He had done a tribute (like a cover in music) to Canova's Cupid and Psyche. He lived in Frisco at the time and the piece is still there somewhere. I have a bunch of pictures of it but have never seen it in person. It is a simple thing to have a look on the net, and I did, it is a fantastic work. We sat many hours talking about just how one must do this, to plan ahead because you are talking a piece of stone here, so you have to take it off the top first. It also survived the earthquake.

He also said that he sculpted every detail, including the genitalia, but of course the pictures don't really show that. There is a cape or something over the Woman's body and he told me he got that so thin that it was translucent.

Now I would have to say that is art. He said he studied for years and years to be able to do something like this, and my inquisitive mind of course probed him for details. It was quite interesting actually.

Also on the page I wrote :

"
Venue and dates of exhibits or works:

1985: Commission for Daschell's Hotel union square SF CA, 'Maltese Falcon', Travertine.

1985: The Point Gallery, Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard, SF CA. In conjunction with Citywide Open Studios, Marble and Bronze.

1985: First "All Point Show", The Point Gallery, Hunter's Point, Marble and Bronze Sculpture.

1986: Acapello Restaurant SF, Marble and Sandstone Sculpture.

1986: Warehouse Restaurant SF, Marble Sculpture.

1986: Budgi & Buchner Interior Design, Showplace West SF, Marble Sculpture.

1986: French Ambience, SF & LA, Marble Sculpture.

1986: Teresa Cacciotti's December Christmas Show, Marble Sculpture.

1987: Patio Forge Gallerie, Lafayette CA, Marble Sculpture.

1887: Susan Carr Interior Design, Showplace Center SF, Marble Sculpture.

1988: Images Gallery, Hayes St. SF, Marble Sculpture.

1989: Garden Court, Show Place Square, Marble Sculpture

1990: One Man Show, The Marble Works in Oakland, Marble Sculpture. "
 
Granted not the big money stuff, but the guy was known. He was also known for alot of ice scuptures. He also worked in metal, but that usually entailed producing a mold first and sending it to a foundry. Then of course it comes back for the finishing touches.

Now is that what you mean by an artist, or rather a guy who designs the replica of a rubber stamp and then workmen build a specialized form and order up a truckload of concrete ?

T



stella41b -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 3:32:58 AM)

Wow Aneirin I can only wish I had oodles of time to create nothing more than a visual something as an expression of my soul, but the reality is different, for me.

I consider myself an artist, and my art is perhaps the most linguistic form of art and entertainment - theatre, or more specifically, fringe theatre. I write and direct my own plays, and also occasionally the plays of other people, other people sometimes direct my plays, and I run workshops, training and productions also for disadvantaged people such as the homeless, the gay community and other stigmatized groups.

Theatre is my passion, my career, my occupation, and now it's become my way of life. But theatre isn't just an art form, it's also a hard, painstaking, cut throat business. What you see in the listings is just the tip of the iceberg, the West End and 'rep' *(first class theatre) is just the icing on the cake, there are many more fringe companies, and even more theatres who do touring, they work in education, in the community and even in healthcare, teaching, providing occupation, and helping lots of people overcome a wide variety of issues including depression, abuse, and substance misuse.

Theatre is not just something visual, but an experience, something to take part in, to share, and ideally to remember. How many of you remember being in a school production, and how many years ago was that? Can you remember what part you played? What was the production? Can you perhaps remember your lines, or how you felt when you went out on stage? From theatre you get many forms of entertainment, television, film, comedy, performance art, just as you can create an entire performance from just a picture, a short story, a photograph, or even a painting.

It's taken me over a year to create a theatre here in London, and while we open our first play in two weeks time we still have a couple of months of playing to empty chairs while we build both a repertoire as well as an audience. But in a way I'm lucky, I have established my name, and not even a change of gender and name has taken much away from my reputation, I'm still the same person, the plays are still mine, and I have my own archive of reviews and articles. The people will come, just as I am developing projects with the homeless, the gay community and people are interested in becoming involved. But then again this didn't happen without sacrifice, I've done my share of menial jobs, dropped leaflets, cleaned dishes, scrubbed floors, taught English, translated texts, I don;t own property nor a car, instead I invested in my work and for many years wrote and directed plays without funding, able to run theatres by getting bums on seats. At this moment in time I'm not worried. The people will come.

Art and artists are as essential to the world as anyone else, not just for what we create and what we share with the rest of the world, but for the simple fact that like musicians and those in sport we provide people with something to occupy their time, interests, entertainment, as well as communicating with their soul.

We are the cement which holds society together. Consider that without art, without entertainment, without music, and without sport there would only be drinking, shopping and fucking - and what sort of life is that?



LaTigresse -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 3:46:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Artists, those people who seem to spend oodles of time creating nothing more than a visual something as an expression of their soul, do they have a place in the modern world, or is art a complete waste of time and resources ? Should artists give up dreaming and get a job ? Or is it we need artists as an example that people no matter who they are can create in a world where destruction seems the favourite subject.

What are your thoughts on art and artists ?


Count me in as a art lover. However, if I cannot have oodles of free time to create and express without a care of how the bills get paid, neither can they.

Unless they are a trust fund baby, they are either going to have to find a sugar daddy or momma, or get a job.

Otherwise, who is going to determine what art is, therefor who gets the free financial ride to create? Afterall, there is art I've seen others go gaga over that I thought was utter shit. And visa versa. I think it would end up stiffling creativity simply because there would have to be some sort of criteria set. I am sure there would end up being some sort of production minimum also. Both of those things together would, it seems to me, end up ruining the whole creative process.

So, while I see tremendous value in art. I think that the struggle is part of the process. Unless one is very lucky.



BbwCanaDomme -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 3:49:28 AM)

I'm a filmmaker, and blatantly refuse to do anything else. Besides, now that starbucks is tanking I don't have many other options for real jobs anyway haha



RCdc -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 4:03:57 AM)

Art is everywhere.  I believe it disheartening to see artist purely perceived as those who create pictures or something from say stone.
 
Art is all around, from people who tend their gardens, to those that create buildings.  People are art and most of the time their own artists, even if they do lend from others.  It is in the way we do our hair to the way we speak.  Art isn't something that only a few choose to do.  It is something that everyone has and that everyone is.
 
the.dark.



tweedydaddy -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 4:10:19 AM)

Art is what you make it.
If you say you are an artist, then you are an artist.
From the cave paintings of early man to modern movies the world is a reflection of art, or it should be.



BbwCanaDomme -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 4:51:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy

Art is what you make it.
If you say you are an artist, then you are an artist.
From the cave paintings of early man to modern movies the world is a reflection of art, or it should be.


there is very very little art in modern movies.



TNstepsout -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 5:36:56 AM)

I think there is an innate desire for people to find order and beauty in the apparent chaos that surrounds us and art does that. Behind the seemingly random placement and combination of color, texture, shape, tone, movement etc... is an artistic order that communicates directly with our souls. Art is important, whether we realize it or not, because we respond to it on an intrinsic level.

Now I agree with others who have stated that art is not just paintings an sculptures, if it were, I'd be pitiful indeed. But artistry is expressed in ALL creative endeavors, from decorating a home, to cooking and even dressing yourself. It's important. It's something people do spontaneously across all cultures and defines the human spirit.



LaTigresse -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 5:58:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy

Art is what you make it.
If you say you are an artist, then you are an artist.
From the cave paintings of early man to modern movies the world is a reflection of art, or it should be.


there is very very little art in modern movies.


We must be watching different movies then.



colouredin -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 6:11:03 AM)

Fr

I love art, art is so often misunderstood, the pretentious elite has made sure that people feel uncomfy going to galleries due to their usually crap analysis and complicated language. Art is such a broad term, it means so much, everyone can and has been moved by art whether they realise it or not.

I think that art as in visual art has such a womnderful power to educate that isnt used often enough in schools, it has the power to make peopl feel and see things from a new light.

Life is so full of crap, of politics and of drama art brings a glint of something else, a pleasebt distraction from all the crap that fills the rest of our lives.



Musicmystery -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 6:39:50 AM)

quote:

No literature, no music, no dancing, no sculpture, no photography, no painting and drawing? No film and no fashion?


Exactly. Who wants to live in a world with no music, for example?

Or a life where no one ever has new ways to look at the world?



missturbation -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 7:49:53 AM)

What about other forms of art that we see every day. The art work on the cover or maybe amongst the pages of the book you are reading? The art work on the birthday card you sent your brother? The art work on your party / wedding invitations?
What about for example the art of photography. Think of all our soldiers serving that only have photos of their family, friends with them. Without photography they would not even have that.
 
Art is no waste of time. The world would be far less beautiful without it.
 
My brother is an artist who runs his own business. He is not famous but he makes a good living from it. However had he listened to his teachers who told him he was wasting his time and should get a 'job' he would not be where he is now. He struggled to make it, he really did. Without my brothers art work my world would be a far less beautiful place.



hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 8:17:13 AM)

~fr~
 
What is art, who is considered an artist?  An artist, to me, is someone who's creative urges drive them to produce something beautiful - whether visual or aural - for the leisure time pleasure of others.    The key there is Leisure.  Things of a practical nature - buildings or machinery, for instance - are not Art as they are not specifically there for peoples' Leisure gratification.  While there may be artistry incorporated into the design of such, or the finished product might be considered beautiful, the objects themselves being of a practical nature are not what I generally consider art.  (There are exceptions, I'll grant you, but those are few and fall under specific "rules" of my own that I apply to them.)  The world of Professional art is also a grueling, emotionally draining, generally cutthroat, highly viscious zoo.  One that I prefer to avoid immersing myself in these days, simply to avoid the stress levels, and the plethora of false friends that abound in that demesne.
 
Creativity is simply part and parcel of who I am.  I've been a vocalist (both professional and non) since I was a kid.  I've been a painter for several years, and have even sold a few (much to my own surprise).  I've been a writer - both poetry and fiction - since I was in my teens, and have even had a few pieces of poetry published.  I've been a belly dancer for years, and have been doing other forms of dance (ballet, jazz, tap, etc.) since I was a kid.  I've been in and out of Theater, both musical and non, since I was a kid.  I laughingly refer to my job these days - the creative side of it, when I'm in the shop, not the business end of it - as being half artist half mad scientist simply because it is so much a Creative effort.  (And many of the things that I make and sell through my business are intended to induce relaxation/leisure even though of a practical nature lol.)
 
Considering all that, would I be considered an artist?  I don't know.  Nor do I particularly care whether anyone Else sees me as such.  I consider myself an artist, and my self perception is a damn sight more important to me than anyone else's outside perception.



SteelofUtah -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 8:28:37 AM)

I went to a Performance Art Production. The Artist well known in the Performance Art Field.

We walked into a room and in one Section there were naked women having various baloon animals taped to her body being popped by men in black suits holding Dildos with Needles poked into the tips. It was the expression of "Disease and the plight of the Female choice"

In another Section was a man with a Condom on and a Bicycle pump tied into it. while he pumped it the lights under him changed from Blue to Red to White. It was the Expression of "The Male Ego at it's Greatest Form" I think it was supposed to be deragotory but I just thought it was strange.

The Last before I was asked to leave for laught so hard and annoying the Artistic Minds was called "The Last Supper" a Woman again Nude on her back with her Legs tucked behind her head while Mock eating Spagetti that was coing out of her Vagina. I couldn't help but laugh.

Art is to the eye. One Persons Scribbles and Dots is another Persons Mantle Piece Painting.

Personally I perfer my Artistic Nudes to come from the Pages of Playboy. Others would call that Pornography.

Steel



kdsub -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 8:53:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Art is everywhere.  I believe it disheartening to see artist purely perceived as those who create pictures or something from say stone.
 
Art is all around, from people who tend their gardens, to those that create buildings.  People are art and most of the time their own artists, even if they do lend from others.  It is in the way we do our hair to the way we speak.  Art isn't something that only a few choose to do.  It is something that everyone has and that everyone is.
 
the.dark.

 
Elegantly stated the.dark. but some are just soooo much better than the rest. I hope they appreciate how lucky and blessed they are.

Butch



hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 9:00:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Elegantly stated the.dark. but some are just soooo much better than the rest. I hope they appreciate how lucky and blessed they are.


Butch, sometimes being "gifted" isn't much of a blessing - it's more like a Curse.  I say that, because when you find yourself truely gifted at an early age, the pressure to excell, the pressure to go into that form as your "profession" whether that's what YOU particularly want to do as a Profession, the pressure to meet other peoples' expectations of you (which may well exceed your capability, and usually exceed your expectations from yourself) .... it's a constant source of stress, and can be nightmarish and near insanity inducing.  That goes for more than simply the arts - that's pretty much any area.



meatcleaver -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 9:11:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What are your thoughts on art and artists ?


I'm quite partial to them because I am one. I also do a lot of designing which is the down side because I have to use the computer so much which I hate which is why I'm always distracting myself on CM. However, on the upside, art(and design) has earned me a pretty good life style. I have a studio in Berlin and Amsterdam and a small apartment in Paris and I have travelled all over the world with my art.

While I am sure the world could do without me and my mediocre efforts, it would be a depressing place without art.



philosophy -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 10:39:12 AM)

FR

Stella and i are in much the same game. Art is how society plays the 'what if' game. It's how we play with ideas too tricky to implement without some form of testing in society. i'd recommend Boal's "Theatre of the Oppressed" as a good starting point to read around the subject.



missturbation -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 10:45:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Elegantly stated the.dark. but some are just soooo much better than the rest. I hope they appreciate how lucky and blessed they are.


Butch, sometimes being "gifted" isn't much of a blessing - it's more like a Curse.  I say that, because when you find yourself truely gifted at an early age, the pressure to excell, the pressure to go into that form as your "profession" whether that's what YOU particularly want to do as a Profession, the pressure to meet other peoples' expectations of you (which may well exceed your capability, and usually exceed your expectations from yourself) .... it's a constant source of stress, and can be nightmarish and near insanity inducing.  That goes for more than simply the arts - that's pretty much any area.


I'm sorry but when i see things like this it always riles me. Poor poor tormented artist. Every job is a source of stress and can be nightmarish and near insanity inducing. Being an artist does not make you more sensitive to these things.
My god my brother struggled for several years getting his art business up and running, he financially struggled and mentally struggled but he would never claim that he was any different to anyone else who has struggled with their career.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Artists (11/12/2008 10:51:15 AM)

Have you seen what bricklayers can do with bricks thesedays?



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