RE: assertive kink (Full Version)

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Jeptha -> RE: assertive kink (11/12/2008 8:08:15 PM)

It sounds like he's kind of into a D/s arrangement, but more in an old-style, sort of vanilla way.
It sounds like you're looking for a more "kink-aware" kind of a D/s relationship, where, I guess, the dynamic is explored and played with more, perhaps in a variety of ways, and in a more conscious manner.

It would be hard to explain to a person totally unfamiliar with the concepts!




StrtbkNamdDesire -> RE: assertive kink (11/12/2008 9:00:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: monywildcat

My cue to walk would have been when he said that females are the weaker sex.  WTF  It is apparent that he does not understand submission comes from great strength, not weakness. 


That's rather a generalization, no? I doubt that all subs have great strength.... many are looking for validation, care, a way to fill a void by subsuming their own needs, abdicating responsibility, etc. If you are speaking about 'true' (some perfect ideal) submission, then emotional strength and strength of character is required to be subservient without losing oneself, but we know that is often not the case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3
a guy approached me a couple of days ago from alt., he's into bedroom kink. i explained that kink isnt the premis for me and that for me a man needs to have a natural dominance about him and more than a passing interest in the D/s dynamic.

he insists that he is assertive by nature and by that is clearly suggesting that i would find that enough. he says other things like, he's chivalrous and considers women the weaker sex...!


Well, aside from the fact that this man needs to take a gender studies class, I think the basic problem with this situation is your explanation. If you tell people you are looking for someone who is 'naturally dominant,' you are going to wind up with all kinds of 'Doms' who use this essentialist justification for a BUNch of red herrings... like the weak/strong argument he threw at you. There is no chromosome for dominance... asking/seeking a 'natural' Dom will likely get you men who think along... er, less progressive lines (re: a 'natural' order of domination/submission that usually assigns a gender to these roles). Whether or not we can draw concrete psychological conclusions about why we prefer acting in a certain way is besides the point... much of domination/submission is socially constructed and reinforced in a variety of ways that are very intense... but also not biological. If you pick another descriptor (besides 'natural') I bet you will start to weed out some of these dudes.

*waits for the flaming*



roughleather -> RE: assertive kink (11/12/2008 9:47:22 PM)

You have no idea how assertive he is until you meet him.

Sub women on here complain regularly that the men come on too strong online. So don't complain when one doesn't. What do you want; some guy who starts out with "Call me Master"?



StrtbkNamdDesire -> RE: assertive kink (11/12/2008 10:13:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

You have no idea how assertive he is until you meet him.


Why would she want to do that?? She wants someone who says he's dominant, not just assertive; she wants a D/s relationship, he's looking for bedroom kink; she wants a man who doesn't call women the weaker sex... Sounds like a recipe for success!



LadyConstanze -> RE: assertive kink (11/13/2008 5:44:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


You prove my point.  Assertiveness never needs to be stated--I am assuming, of course, that when you put your foot down you do not begin with some variant of "I am in command," but rather something more like "Go. Do."





Not at all, I am quite polite and ask if there is a specific reason why they haven't delivered and tell them that I suggest strongly that they do so ASAP, works better than "Do! Now!" Same message but no need to make work more unpleasant, I found I get much better results with politeness, if people actually want to deliver, they will do more and everybody prefers to feel cherished.



DavanKael -> RE: assertive kink (11/13/2008 6:45:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

is being assertive enough. 


For some it is.  Is it enough for you?
 
John


This is an extremely astute question.  I mean, what I am looking for in terms of a Dominant presentation may not be at all desirable to you and vice versa.  I'm not sure if the person is not interesting enough to see if the words you are each using is the issue or if what you are each looking for is incompatible.  Perhaps more conversation? 
  Davan



celticlord2112 -> RE: assertive kink (11/13/2008 1:41:59 PM)

quote:

Not at all, I am quite polite and ask if there is a specific reason why they haven't delivered and tell them that I suggest strongly that they do so ASAP, works better than "Do! Now!" Same message but no need to make work more unpleasant, I found I get much better results with politeness, if people actually want to deliver, they will do more and everybody prefers to feel cherished.

Point being, you are BEING assertive instead of SAYING that you are.



LadyConstanze -> RE: assertive kink (11/13/2008 2:19:45 PM)

I prefer people subscribing to me being charming rather than assertive and leaving them with the illusion that they want to deliver, it makes things so much easier ;)

But in general, yes, I guess I am, I just believe that barking orders is less effective than saying please, it's still an order but so much depends on the phrasing, a bit like the glass being half empty or half full...



lally3 -> RE: assertive kink (11/13/2008 2:26:09 PM)

assertive would be enough, but not in the context of the OP

possibly some subs would find him lovely - i dont find him unlovely.  its just he's an old fashioned guy and i know how they tick.  somewhat domineering with a mild kink need (possibly - but might just be a minor aside to qualify being on alt in the first place).  it is about sex for him but isnt it about sex for us too - on one level or another, we all have that itch.

i know perfectly well that he isnt for me.  i knew it early on and told him so. 

just i found it strange that i couldnt explain to this guy why his idea of dominance wasnt mine when if he were saying the things he says as a D/s man id be in there.  it isnt semantics i know that - it is down to individual interpretation



LadyConstanze -> RE: assertive kink (11/13/2008 2:32:43 PM)

There are no rules why we are attracted to somebody or why we are not, if it doesn't work for you it doesn't.



lally3 -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 3:43:37 AM)

sorry to drag this back up, but i was thinking a little more about this last night.

i think it has to do with 'intent' the intent to Dominate - its a 'language' spoken through body language and signals as much as through words and actions. 

when i am with a man who has the intention to dominate i can respond to him, i know where i am.  i can be myself and relax.

without intent the lines get fuzzy and difficult to interpret.  sitting at a persons feet because thats where i like to sit would feel natural between two D/s people and would be understood by both for what it is - a gesture of submission, of being in a place that defines them in that moment for that moment. 

it is the freedom to be yourself with someone who recognises the things that you do and understands why you do them.



NorthernGent -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 3:52:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

he insists that he is assertive by nature



Assertiveness is a tool used to get what you want. Sometimes you need to assert your authority; other times you need to sit back and let all unfold. Those of a submissive persuasion can be assertive. Were I you, I'd get back to him and ask him to put some meat on the bones: what exactly does he mean?



MissEnchanted -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 3:52:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelesslyInvo

did the meaning of chivalry change recently, or is this just one of those awesome occasions to quote "and they say chivalry is dead!"?

anyway, i don't require specific characteristics out of my partner, assertiveness is something i lack, and certainly a quality in others that meshes well with me, but if they don't understand the "me" part, it's not even close to enough.

and it doesn't sound to me as if he's even making the slightest effort to understand the "you", sounds to me like he's just giving you any random reason and excuse for why you should be wanting to have sex with and throw yourself at mr. vanilla twist, and that he just can't understand why the "weaker sex" is not doing so, a sure sign that he'll never figure things out.


hopelesslyInvo,

Wow! That was so good, it made my nipples hard!

[:D]




persephonee -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 5:48:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

assertive would be enough, but not in the context of the OP

possibly some subs would find him lovely - i dont find him unlovely.  its just he's an old fashioned guy and i know how they tick.  somewhat domineering with a mild kink need (possibly - but might just be a minor aside to qualify being on alt in the first place).  it is about sex for him but isnt it about sex for us too - on one level or another, we all have that itch.

i know perfectly well that he isnt for me.  i knew it early on and told him so. 

just i found it strange that i couldnt explain to this guy why his idea of dominance wasnt mine when if he were saying the things he says as a D/s man id be in there.  it isnt semantics i know that - it is down to individual interpretation


lally,
i didnt really read the rest of the responses, but i know the frustration of not being able to explain what is so certain on the inside...and in your mind, should be self evident to everyone. When i was with my partner and had to explain to someone that was important enough to deserve the effort of a complete explanation...and i would express myself as eloquently as i could...and i would only get a glazed over look of miscomprehension and the sound of crickets chirping in the background, i would get sooo frustrated. The fact is, that sometimes there is no way to get the other one to understand...its not even your inability to explain...its his inability to understand. Dont assume you wont be clear with the next one you need to talk to...just chalk it up to incompatibility. If he were even close to where you were intellectually or whatever, he would have at least been able to grasp at the tail of what you were saying at all.
Hows the horse?

xxooxx
perse



MidMichCowboy -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 6:03:05 AM)

Definitions first:

assertiveness is a trait taught by many personal development experts and psychotherapists and the subject of many popular self-help books. It is linked to self-esteem and considered an important communication skill.

Domination is the condition of having control or power over people, animals, or things.

So, do you want to talk about it or do it?



persephonee -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 6:10:22 AM)

Hey there sexy cowboy!!...youre about to get some cmail....

*smooches*

perse



Manawyddan -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 6:32:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Assertiveness never needs to be stated--I am assuming, of course, that when you put your foot down you do not begin with some variant of "I am in command," but rather something more like "Go. Do."


I have a button somewhere which reads: I'm the Dom, Damnit, Stop Laughing!



antipode -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 7:52:10 AM)

quote:

At least you're not getting the losers I got when there


I canned my paid subscription to alt a few months ago, it is a huge assembly of fakes, trolls and come-ons now. Shame, I found some really fun playmates there, over the years, but they're only into making money today, number of clickthroughs and all that.



windchymes -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 8:11:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3


i just cant seem to get a concrete argument going to explain why i know theres no point meeting up.



I would just state "it's not what I'm looking for, thanks for your interest, good luck in your search, blah blah blah...", end of discussion, case closed.  You really don't need to explain anything.

He probably wouldn't listen to your explanation if you had one, he's got his mind made up. 



DesFIP -> RE: assertive kink (11/15/2008 10:08:09 AM)

You don't need to debate with him. Just tell him you aren't compatible, good bye and good luck. And then block the idiot. Because anybody who can't take no for an answer isn't likely to accept a hard limit either. He isn't dominant, he's domineering.



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