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RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 5:53:56 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sensualips

You say you know your Master cares deeply, that he does offer "good girl" or other words of approval, and that he is a quiet man. Perhaps you should look for his pride and appreciation in his actions rather than his words? It may be that he expresses these things indirectly.

Excellent point. People in relationships have different symbols and ways of showing affection and love and praise. Just because his way doesn't fit YOUR way does not make it any less real or true.

The obvious question however is- have you told him what you would like and how you feel? Even if he just listens and does nothing, then you know it's out on the table and he is aware of it.

Otherwise, just realize the important thing is the long term fulfillment and open communication that you have.

(in reply to Sensualips)

Post #: 21

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 7:37:32 AM

Sensualips

Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

like knowing he can just assume it's going to get done and expect it done right without leaping for a carrot.

I think is an excellent point, and not just for a s/D relationship. At work in some of the presentations I give we often talk about the "gold star mentality" of society, from the very young to adults. Basically I am referring to the idea that people do things -- perform well - with the expectation they will be rewarded in some external way. If the reward (praise, money/allowance/bonus, recognition, etc) is removed, the motivation evaporates.

My educational background is in human behavior, specifically in childhood and adolescence. I used lots of positive reinforcement and praise with my short people and that is not a bad thing to do. However, about a year or two ago I really noticed I had created "praise junkies." They could not determine if they did a "good job" unless someone TOLD them it was "good." That was never the intent and so we worked on that and continue to do so. I recently did away with allowances and money-for-extra-chores as well, because they became so focused on "how much will I get if I do it?"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 22

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 8:17:00 AM

Heinz

Posts: 65
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

a sub or a slave is giving herself away. It is a girft for the Dom(me).
What do you do with a gift??

greetings from Europe.

_____________________________

Heinz, from Holland (Europe)

(in reply to Slutsub)

Post #: 23

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 9:44:48 AM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline

Appreciation works better then a box of good chocolate anyday

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to Slutsub)

Post #: 24

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 11:21:46 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

i know my Dom love me, not just for praise and love words when he is pleesed whit me, but than even when he is angry whit me he telle me that he is angry whit my actions, but he still love me.

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

Post #: 25

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 1:09:50 PM

MasterRobert1

Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline

Praise should be given when praise is due. It can't all be "stick"; there has to be a "carrot" every now and then.

(in reply to Slutsub)

Post #: 26

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 3:02:13 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

how about the feeling of pride in yourself that you KNOW you have been a good girl/boy or that your efforts were well done, without having to have external validation. that is a pretty awesome feeling right there.

Very much so, but my response was more in tune with some who are just starting out together. At the beginning, I really do think that praise is a good thing, because it then makes one more apt to try and please in other ways.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 5:04:45 PM

HouseofBear

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline

Everyone has different needs. However, positive reinforcement, in the form of appreciation and praise when it is deserved usually does seem to work in our experience. You have to go by the individual.

Bear and Ursa

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 28

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 5:04:55 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

i get praise very rarely. Usually if i go up and above what i usually do. If i've done something exceptionally well. What i do get, all the time infact is simple "thank you's"

Requests "Will you get me some tea?" (and yeah i've tried saying, i'm busy at the moment.. and then it becomes a command)

and it always ends with "thank you" this is how i know i am not taken for granted. When he never fails to say thank you. It oddly means alot to me

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 29

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 6:29:17 PM

Rayne58

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i get praise very rarely. Usually if i go up and above what i usually do. If i've done something exceptionally well. What i do get, all the time infact is simple "thank you's"

Requests "Will you get me some tea?" (and yeah i've tried saying, i'm busy at the moment.. and then it becomes a command)

and it always ends with "thank you" this is how i know i am not taken for granted. When he never fails to say thank you. It oddly means alot to me

YES

To know that I am loved and appreciated is wonderful. To hear Him say "Thank you" when I do things for Him makes me so happy.

I lived for years with a man who took me for granted, never said he loved me or anything. I'm so happy now.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 30

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 7:49:07 PM

MissDiandSirHugh

Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Goondiwindi ( Qld )
Status: offline

Praise is always given at all times when no matter what chore is being carried out not only with words but even at times just a gentle touch on the shoulder or light touch on the back to show that the Sub has continued to do what ever properly and not let standards fall in any way.
It also lets the Sub know to try much harder in those chores that at times require punishment in what ever form it is administered as a smile is much more pleasurable than a frown or wince and red masks on them.
These praises are given by either of us to which ever sex is with us at the time.

_____________________________

HoRoo for now from Us both and enjoy all you read even if you don"t agree with us or others.
Knowledge is no Burden to Carry

(in reply to Rayne58)

Post #: 31

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 9:14:43 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

I praise and punish, as needed. After all, we ARE all human.

(in reply to Slutsub)

Post #: 32

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/20/2005 10:57:46 PM

SlavenationArmy

Posts: 26
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline

In the early days with my girl, Helena, we had set aside a specific time to honestly talk about what had transpired that day. How did I feel about the day, how she felt about it and that laid the groundwork of understanding for us. It helped in developing our "shorthand". But one of the most important things it taught me is what her needs are... in this case praise, positive and negative reinforcement patterns became quite clear after a few of these sessions.

We don't need this discussion time so much these days, however it's always a goood idea to have time set aside for it IMO.

My point? Familiarity, comfort and communication could alleviate this need to be praised for every task. Why? Because your Master/Mistress would know when it is a good time to praise. And you would know the reaons why your Master/Mistress chooses to praise one thing over the other.

just my two cents....

_____________________________

+ SlavenationArmy +

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 33

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/26/2005 10:40:51 AM

konekoneko

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/26/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daredevil865
Behaviour can be effected by either positive or negative re-enforcement...you encourage the type of behaviour you want by positive re-enforcement (praise) or you discourage / change the type of behaviour you do not want by negative re-enforcement (punishment)...

Actually, that is a common misconception. Positive reinforcement is encouraging or discouraging behaviour by giving something (whether it be rewards or pain), and negative reinforcement is encouraging or discouraging behaviour by taking something away (removing a source of pain or taking away a privelage).

(in reply to daredevil865)

Post #: 34

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/26/2005 1:00:56 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: konekoneko
Actually, that is a common misconception. Positive reinforcement is encouraging or discouraging behaviour by giving something (whether it be rewards or pain), and negative reinforcement is encouraging or discouraging behaviour by taking something away (removing a source of pain or taking away a privelage).

Not quite right.

In psychological terms:

Positive = giving something

Negative = taking something

Reinforcement/reward = encouraging behavior

Punishment = discouraging behavior

Thus you can have positive reinforcement (giving something in order to encourage behavior), positive punishment (giving something in order to discourage behavior), negative reinforcement (taking something in order to encourage behavior), or negative punishment (taking something in order to discourage behavior.)

(in reply to konekoneko)

Post #: 35

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/26/2005 1:35:18 PM

konekoneko

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/26/2005
Status: offline

you probably know more than i do, but as far as i know reinforcement doesnt necessarily mean a reward

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 36

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/26/2005 4:00:27 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: konekoneko
you probably know more than i do, but as far as i know reinforcement doesnt necessarily mean a reward

No, but both (in psychological terms) are used to encourage behavior.

(in reply to konekoneko)

Post #: 37

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 12/29/2005 8:58:11 AM

Nendarye

Posts: 147
Joined: 12/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

When I first met Master, he was constantly praising me when I did something right, or to his liking, especially if I did it without him saying something beforehand. Now though, just his smile, or a pat on the shoulder lets me know how pleased he is with me, and that is all that is needed.

_____________________________

" You may be suffering, but you will always suffer with love"

@~~Proud property of Master Michael~~@

(in reply to Slutsub)

Post #: 38

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 1/2/2006 2:03:45 AM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

it seems at times that we as dominant people are all into ourselves and want this or that ,but we adore you all the same we may be more close mouth about it but a good girl, god boy saying that is so much and i spoil my sub maybe that is why i have him on time out now lol but no your more then adore and i speak i think for many of us without you there is no us

mons

(in reply to Slutsub)

Post #: 39

RE: appreciated or taken for granted??? - 1/2/2006 6:03:50 AM

HoosierScorpio

Posts: 164
Status: offline

I praise my girls when they do things that I was proud of her doing it. I been to play parties were other Masters and Mistress will praise their sub or slave for doing something they require of them. But remember not every one know how to praise each other so he may be the kind of person who never learn this or had it done. I just post to one of message about being taken for granted and I am going to use this as a example but dogs are as much part of the family as any thing is. I am helping a sub out and she feels she is not aspirate it is not what you do not say but what was done to show they are aspirated they are service to you. If you treat a dog like a dog he will turn around and bite you on the ass . But if you treat a dog like the family member he will love and be devoted to you until the day it dies. This is my viewpoint
Hoosierscorpio

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 40

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