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sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 2:09:01 PM   
reginamh


Posts: 4
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline 		  Hello everyone and thank you in advance for you wisdom and help.My problem is how do i deal with a sister slave who is constantly looking at only the sexual side of slavery?I am a owned Gorean kajira and my sister is relatively new at this(having been in gor a lil over a year)I joined my Masters household recently and was given the responsibilty and honor of first girl.But my sister is driving me crazy...995 of everything she askz advice on is sexual..she puts a sexual spin on everything...saying that that is what a kajira is,i have tried to explian to her that there is so much more to slavery then sex but she just decides that im trying to get more time with Master...whichisnt true.we sleep in M<asters bed on alternate evenings and im fine with that but she has ruined my nights on more than one occasion with crying,pouting etc.She has been punished but Master says as first girl this is something i must deal with and find ways to correct her behavior.So besides talking to her til im blue in the face what can i do?  
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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 2:30:55 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		Aren't red silk kajira pretty much there to "pleasure" the Master, trained in the arts of pleasure, seduction etc  If that's how she sees herself and her slavery then her thinking it is all sexual/about sex is right for her.  That you have a different view of the meaning of slavery is a problem between the two of you, but not a flaw that is solely hers.

From what you write, it seems that the problem is in your relationship, you have different views of your roles within it, and then, yes, the solution would involve talking about it til your blue in the face.  But doing so constructivly, and with the help of your Master who seems to be taking a massive cop out by saying "it's your issue".  It's all of your relationship, and so it's all of your issue, and if he doesn't want to deal with that, I'd question him.

It seems that you're the new person in the relationship as well, which could mean she is struggling with the transition, how she fits into the new relationship dynamic etc  She and your Master already had a relationship working before you joined, and perhaps then her slavery *was* all about sex, if you've entered a pre-existing relationship, for me, the point would be to fit into that dynamic and not to try and change what was already there.  If you don't fit into what they had, perhaps it is you who should be questioning whether this relationship is the right one for you?

(in reply to reginamh)
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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 2:34:21 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		As first girl  i  think you have switch rights?    Pull out the old cane and apply to arse when pouting, crying etc inappropriately.

anyway - this sounds like a case of jealousy to me. She wants to be first and only girl, and enjoy all priviliges there of.  How to correct it is the connundrum.
The first thing i would do is institute corner time for inappropriate behaviour - send her to a seperate room when she misbehaves - and talk to  your master about it so he will be consistant with it as well.  When she is ready to behave,she can come out and apologise briefly (nondramatically!), and go on with life.  If she complains that this is a childs punishment, point out that she is behaving like a child and will be treated as one until she grows up.


If you don't have his support the behaviour won't be resolved.  Hopefully, he isn't enjoying the drama of having 2 women fighting it out over him.

Does this woman have a grasp of Gor? From what i have read of the Gor books, she would be beaten for causing disharmony in her masters house.  And call me crazy, but one year in any lifestyle is a long time. I don't think that is a good excuse for childish behaviour.

The other thing you may think about is wheither or not there is any basis for her complaint that you are trying to get more time with your master. Sometimes there is a grain of truth in others complaints.  Just a thought for you.


(in reply to reginamh)
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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 2:35:53 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I agree with Ivy here.
 
The other thing I would question is why the Master, if unhappy with her, isn't dealing with this himself and instead, leaving it to his girl?  But meh, different strokes an all that.
 
The only thing you can do, is tell her what her Master wants - whether it's what you believe or not and what she believes or not.  If this is a gorean house then it's Masters way and neither you nor her should be against that.
 
the.dark.

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 2:49:22 PM   
sweetstorm


Posts: 227
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline 		I see jealousy as a HOUSEHOLD issue because I have been in a situation where girls were fighting over their Master. He was enjoying having women catfight over him and wouldn't step in the middle. As a friend to him, I told him that it was his job to step in and take care of the girl who was jealous. The girls had tried to talk to her, they had tried to talk to the Master but felt frustrated and upset that they were not being heard. Since they had tried what they could try, I felt he should have stepped up to the plate and reigned her in.

He had four subs and only one had a jealousy issue but it ended up affecting the entire household so much that he lost all but THAT sub. Eventually as he tried to bring other girls into the household, he saw where the REAL problem was and she was out on her hind-end. Had he shared the concerns of the rest of the household, I feel the other girls would have at least felt listened to and still appreciated. As it was, they felt that he was favoring her and neglecting the rest by catering to her jealousy.

< Message edited by sweetstorm -- 11/13/2008 2:51:09 PM >

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 2:52:41 PM   
Hisunfoldinglily


Posts: 55
Joined: 1/30/2008
Status: offline 		That is a tough situation. Wwe are not all about the sex of it all. It is a way of life and mindset for Uus. Yes, it has enhanced Oour sex life. But it is something separate. Something Wwe have trouble with others as His house is a polyhouse and they expect and demand sex. those that have have been told politely thanks but no thanks.

(in reply to sweetstorm)
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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 3:24:03 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Another situation where the "dom" can't handle conflict or the consequences of putting two incompatible females in an intimate scenario together and so shoves it away.

If it's up to you to deal with, you simply make rules, make sure she understands and agrees to them, and enact consequences.  Explain to her that your nights are sacred and not to be interrupted in any case less than physical serious injury.  Any attempts will result in essays in which she is to explain her behavior, the motivations for the behavior and why it is important to follow the rules given.

I don't think it will work really, she'll just play on his blind side and he'll cave until the whole thing breaks down.

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 3:28:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		sounds like she has a grasp of sex, not gor  any kajira can be trained to sexually please a man.  so can any slut.  both of you should be working together to please him, period.  and that does not just encompass sex.  does she do her share of chores?  do you have time with all three of you together?  are you training her?

there is a gorean section on the boards here.  http://www.collarchat.com/forumid_62/tt.htm  perhaps asking the girls there in the slave section might be helpful for all of you

well wishes

tazzy 

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 4:17:44 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Another situation where the "dom" can't handle conflict or the consequences of putting two incompatible females in an intimate scenario together and so shoves it away.

I don't think it will work really, she'll just play on his blind side and he'll cave until the whole thing breaks down.


I fear that Lucky Albatross is hitting the nail on the head.  One distinction I would make is that sometimes people choose to be incompatible and make their own issues so noxious as to create the ultimate breakdown that LA noted as a result to the supposed Dom caving.  Some people choose to be unrachable, some people choose to act out.  We make choices every day via our actions and inactions. 
Best wishes, 
  Davan


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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 5:46:48 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Actually, Gorean slavery is very much about a woman's sexuality and sexual slavery.  I am not sure where you are getting its not.  The way a woman is held in slavery within Gorean mentality everything she does is a concept of sexual slavery.  Pleasing of Men is within everything and umm yeah its sexual, from doing chores to begging for his attention.  That is what created the slave from the Free Woman, a slave is a woman who thrives and lives within the complete and utter uninhibited expression of her sexuality and is very sexual in nature.  I am honestly not seeing a problem with her trying to understand this nature of hers within the whole of being a slave to the Man.  If you know the quote about a woman being her best trainer, many believe that has to do with the "thinking" side of slavery with regard to doing chores and obedience but its not, it has to do with a woman being the best trainer for herself with regard to her sexuality and sexual nature in everything she does as a slave. 

Perhaps you should help her embrace this part if her and incorporate it into her slavery as a whole, instead of trying to get her to compromise it or hide it, or act as if its not a part of her.  Anyone can learn to serve or go through the motions of serving, only a woman can learn to be the sexual creature Gorean slavery tends to bring out in a woman.  You as first girl should be teaching her how to incorporate this into her service to your Master.  You do realize, as a first girl, that everything you do as a slave is sexual in nature?  If she is new to slavery and your Master is actually mastering her and enslaving her, of course she is going to be completely overwhelmed with these uninhibited feelings of sexuality and sexual freedom a Gorean slave exists within. 

I am not sure how she is ruining your evening by pouting and crying, why are YOU letting it effect your time with your Master?  While she needs to learn the concept of sharing as another slave on the chain, she is probably doing so because it annoys the hell out of you and you allow it to effect your evening.  Simply put, don't.  When she realizes her antics won't get her the attention she desires, she will soon find something else to occupy her time with, grins, like prehaps preparing herself for her turn with her Master.

I fully believe your attempts to draw her attention away from the sexual aspect of slavery, may be causing her to believe you have insecurities.  She enjoys exasperating you it sounds like and figures you are inhibited on many levels with your own sexuality, so she is trying to compete with you.   Which is why i suggest you embrace it with her, show her that what she is questioning.  Teach her how to embrace her sexuality in her slavery while teaching her to serve your Master.  She is directly or indirectly trying to find her place in your Master's life and it seems she is focusing on oneuping you in the sexuality department.  So it is up to you as first girl to teach her to find her place incorporating all of what a slave is -- including the sexual nature of a Gorean slave.

You can try giving her things to do to prepare herself better for her Master's pleasure on the nights you are with him.  Have her work on things your Master enjoys, if he enjoys seeing girls dance, have her start learning a sexual dance she can show him on her nights.  If he enjoys a good erotic story, have her work on that.  It sounds like she needs something to keep her busy.  The more you show her what she can do to keep herself busy until morning, the less she will feel separated.   You are her first girl, as such, perhaps its time you stop trying to inhibit her and give her the tools she needs to ultimately become the best slave girl your Master desires.  She may not be you, she may feel her sexuality a lot more than you do, take who she is and work with that, instead of trying to make her a replica of you.  Which you may or may not know you are doing, but i oft times find already established girls in a relationship who are allowed to train the new girls, tend to focus on what THEY KNOW, which is themselves.  Its very hard to look at someone and teach them to utilize what they are to serve.

Your Master will teach her how to be the slave he wants, what she needs from you is the tools and specifics as to what you know of him.  Serving is secondary in the sense that a monkey can learn to do chores and such in a specific way, she needs you to give her what you know of him so she can better learn how to incorporate who she is and why he chose her as his slave. 

This is confusing i know, but a first girl is not an envious position, because you have to separate yourself from your own desires and wants of the girl and focus on what you know of him and of her and give her the tools she needs to become the individual slave to him -- just as you are.

You had him to teach you to be the individual slave you are to him, unfortunately, she has you and him trying to teach her how to be the slave to him. 

I am curious if you are a Gorean slave why you did ask this here instead of in the Gorean forums but what's more why you have submissive on your profile of you are a owned Gorean kajira?  You also said you joined his home recently,  So there are two of you trying to get acclimated to serving this Man and perhaps you have no clue of your own place?  What is recent. To me, if you haven't been with him a year and are trying to teach a girl to be a slave to him, how can you, you are still a novice at doing so.  The recently just caught my eye in your post and it to me probably means a lot in the situation you all find yourself in.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 11/13/2008 6:18:26 PM >

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 5:55:15 PM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline 		Since this is a Gorean household, have you asked this question on the Gorean forum?
 
And since it is a Gorean house my answer is wholly different then one i would give for a standard M/s house; turn her into a kitchen slave with all that it entails until she changes her ways.

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/13/2008 9:05:40 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

995 of everything she askz advice on is sexual..she puts a sexual spin on everything...saying that that is what a kajira is


She is right - the rest is a veneer you put on it. The problem with gor is that it is complete fiction, on which you can put any spin you want. I don't know that the author ever had an affair outside of his marriage, let alone did anything else more exotic than have children, and be an academic.

(in reply to reginamh)
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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/14/2008 4:47:04 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Wow, if what you say is true antipode that what someone does in his life reflects on the plots of his books, i am wondering about people like Stephen King or creater of all the horror films and books. 

Actually, the slave concepts in the books are concept of expression of the nature that oft times is expected to be hidden and ashamed of in a woman.  One that should not be acknowledged or seen.  If you read the books you see this clearly expressed within the differences between a FW and a slave.  Also, despite popular belief, sexuality and sexual natures being expressed by a woman doesn't mean she runs around panting to have sex or is a maniac who ripps off her clothes etc.  Many times her sexuality and sexual nature can be easily expressed in society, its a turn of her head, a smile on her lips a look in her eye, the rythme and canter and tone of her voice, the way she uses her hands, the way she carries herself, the awareness of how her clothes feel on her body as they rub along her skin, the effect the simple meeting of a Man's eye on the street, the feel of her hair, the sway of her hips when she walks, her pride of knowing no other woman is the equal to herself. 

It continually blows my mind how afraid and inhibited people are when it comes to concepts such as sexuality and sexual nature.  Its not a bedroom concept and its not something a woman, especially one who is a slave to a Man, needs to hide or be ashamed of because it excites her or she wants to understand it so her natural instincts with regard to it come out in all she does.  Many times a woman who first becomes a slave to a Man, she is completely focused on sex to her Master because that's where the inhibitions first start being removed, and then she starts exploring this instinct outside of having sex and begins to incorporate it in all she does to serve him because on many levels that sexuality and sexual nature of a slave is what pleases a Man as well as her bringing him his coffe.  If you look at the positions in Gor, most of them are created to make a woman fully aware of her vulnerability and sexual nature and the differences between her and a Man. So the comment that seems to imply that its not practical for a woman which is why its in fiction and that's the problem, is simply not true.

angel

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/14/2008 8:21:15 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		So why is he rewarding her for this behavior by giving her the time he promised to you? Tell him that she's doing it deliberately to try to break up your relationship and is succeeding judging by the changes in his behavior. And ask him to be honest with you if he wants you to leave instead of allowing her to be the bad guy by pushing you out.

This is his problem. She doesn't want to be a sister slave and you can't change her desires. You can only ask him what he wants and decide for yourself if the new relationship, with her getting all the attention and rewards and you getting the scut work is satisfying to you.

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/14/2008 8:59:17 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		Angel, who is Gorean herself, has incredibly good advice. Read it with great care.
Angel is correct, imo, the basis of slavery is sexual. It has to do with who I am, as a sexual being, that makes me chose to live my life in slavery.
I spent this morning ironing his undershirts. If you can not see what a sexual act that was, I am not sure I can explain it to you - it's the old 'you can't explain a rainbow to a man blind from birth' paradox. But I promise you that there aren't a whole lot of vanilla women out there ironing underhirts. And, I promise you that, for those few there are, when their husbands tell them to go back and do it again, because the undershirts are not folded just right, they don't get a big ole goofy grin on their face. It may not (always - sometimes it does) make me tingle in my neither regions to be standing at the ironing board - but it is always sexual. I am sexual.
Angel is also right that what you need to do is quit worrying about 'her behavoir' and start focusing on YOUR behavoir, and how you are meeting your obligations as first girl. I disagree that Master is just trying to opt for the easy way out for him. I think he is trying to teach you - YOU, not so much her - valuable lessons. He wants you to learn to be the First girl he has asked you to be.
Not just in BDSM, but in life - it never gets you anywhere to constantly focus on what those other folks are or are not doing - should and ought to be doing - on them, Them, THEM. Your focus should be on YOU (and, as His slave, on Him). Worry about YOU pleasing Him as His and as First Girl.
And, for one more Angel is Right Cheer - - unless Master is actively letting her tempertantrum interfere with your night - for instance, giving your night to her if she does a good enough job at tantruming - then just how does it ruin your night, or effect it at all? It is not worth noticing - it is her, and not you. Somewhere out there someone is waving a gun at their husband in the middle of a fight - someone is walking out on their spouse and saying 'you'll be hearing from my lawyer'. Someone is beating their child, someone else is beating their dog. Some people are participating in Kinks you would not approve of that would make you sick to your stomach. The world is full of non-consentual slavery. Are all those people ruining your night, too? What someone else does does not need to effect you at all.
And, if Master is letting her have your night as a reward for a tantrum well thrown, then you need to ask Him, serriously and without sarcasm, in what ways you could better please Him.

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~Dr. Seuss quote

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/14/2008 9:20:48 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		He put you in charge? ok.

Take a strap on dildo to her..that will give her all the sex she needs or deserves until she can begin to cooperate as a sibling-slave.  Deny her access to the Master's man-meat until she can behave with some team spirit.  That'll do 'er.

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RE: sisters in slavery - 11/16/2008 8:37:20 AM   
reginamh


Posts: 4
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline 		First of all,let me say that yes Gorean kajirae are trained to be pleasing sexually and im well aware of that but it is not the end all and be all of Gor.Master follows the philosiphies(sic) of Gor and has made it clear that He expects His kajirae to also be pleasing in other ways...Yes i have entered into an established M/s relationship and understand that things have already been set as far as her behavior,but i was also informed by Master that He wishes things to change and that He has put it to me to train her in the ways He has specified.
I think that part of the problem is that Master and i are much closer in age and have alot of things in common outside of Gor...i try to include her but she doesnt like to participate.In answer to the statement that there may be a grain of truth to her statement that i may be trying to spend more time with Master...i have thought about it and can honestly say it isnt true...ive been in a poly household before and have been trained to share.Most of the time i give up my nights with Master because its just easier than seeing how disappointed she is when he sends her to the other room.
To the person who suggested i use first girl status to discipline my sister,ive actually tried that but it seems that she likes it and has decided that shes going to be the "brat" in the household(her words not mine).
i have developed deep feelings for my Master and sister and i dont want to have to leave...so i will again try to talk to Master and pray that He steps in and helps to fix this.
thankyou all for your help and wisdom...i wish you well

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: sisters in slavery - 11/16/2008 8:54:26 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		If i were training a dog - i would say that giving up your nights because she is acting out is reinforcing her bad behaviour.
If she really wants the nights with him, take away all her nights and only give them back as a reward for doing what you require. Of course this will only work if he agrees to it.  If presented properly, i think she may shape up really quickly.

and does she know that you have the authority to institute changes from him? If she is defying you, she is defying him - at which point i think he should step in.
I really think he needs to sit down with your sister and tell her how it is going to be, and that you speak with his voice. Then lay out punishments and reward.  And be consistant with them. She sounds as if she is walking all over you and your Sir, in the guise of being submissive.

Heck, maybe you should have her read this thread. It may open her eyes to a few things she may not have thought about.

(in reply to reginamh)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: sisters in slavery - 11/21/2008 6:31:45 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

The other thing I would question is why the Master, if unhappy with her, isn't dealing with this himself and instead, leaving it to his girl?


I should think the answer is obvious: there is no man involved here, nor any kajirae.

There could be a male involved with the two girls who are competing for his attention, and- at that- one that is doing a bang-up job of exploiting gullible girls under "our" banner, in much the same guy as a priest telling the altar boy it's okay "'cuz I say God said so," which leaves getting two girls for the price of none as the only thing he can be credited with in this case. Unless you would care to add bonus points for having them blame each other for the mess, instead of blaming the two parties any girl in that situation should blame: the "master" and herself.

She's been dragging this dirty laundry around on the Gorean subforum as well, and methinks she didn't get the reply she wanted.

All I can say is "WTF?!? Someone get Jerry Springer in here!"

Next up, Fritzl will claim what he did was all in the name of (and in line with) SSC BDSM, and the kids will agree. Sheesh.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: sisters in slavery - 11/21/2008 7:06:45 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I can't imagine a red-blooded male, Master or not, not enjoying the fact that there is a slave girl around who thinks about nothing but sex all the time, and I can't imagine him doing anything soon to change that situation.

< Message edited by windchymes -- 11/21/2008 7:07:27 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 20
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